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Oren's Forge - PG169
by blackteagan
Dogsmith
5 years ago
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Read it from the beginning on Tapastic
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www.kickstarter.com/projects/teagangavet/orens-forge-a-graphic-novelHunger rules the predator and fear drives the prey -- but change is coming.Oren's Forge updates once a week on Monday (though I skip a week now and then.)
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TwitterWhen animals considered to be "prey" by the apex predators of the world begin to band together for safety, where does it leave those caught in between?
Namely, a pair of pine martens, carnivores and flesh-eaters themselves, but small enough to be considered food for the bears, wolves and gluttons of the forest and field. They're on a journey to seek sanctuary with the rabbits, squirrels and other prey that have gathered to Oren--but they don't know if welcome or condemnation will meet them.
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bruh.
She just barely tolerates Rask. And that's because she can keep on eye on one marten. And only one.
Letting Yarrow go is a huge risk. He now knows where they live. Even if he promises never to return how can Hemlock be sure he won't especially in winter when the hunger pangs really start to bite?
2. Hemlock is a traumatized bunny. She is driven by her grief and survivor guilt that supercharges her natural distrust for predators. The only surprise is that she doesn't have screaming night terrors that wake the whole hollow. This is not to say that all her actions are justified. But in this scene they do make sense. Yarrow is an unknown entity that has already killed twice and tried to kill her as well.
3. The hollow is safe in the sense that it is hidden. Yarrow was a threat to that.
3. Understanding the motivations of an individual is not the same as justifying them. Hemlock is a threat to the hollow but she doesn't see it that way. She can't see it that way.
You also forget that giving Yarrow another chance could cost another member of the community their life.
That is a chance that Hemlock will not take. And in this case she is right to be distrustful as moments before Yarrow was ready to kill her.
Would you not mistrust anyone that moments before had a knife to your throat?
And the crux of this story is that some have decided thet there is a better way.
I do not doubt the Rask and Oren are better. Well, more accepting and forgiving. But not everyone's going to be the same.
And in that cruel world everyone's trauma affects them differently. And in that world giving a potential predator a second chance might well be the last decision you make.
I am not going to waste my life replying to everything in that 'wall 'o' text'. Not worth my time.
You have a very good way of twisting my words to have the arguments you want rather then the one's you're given.
Fot instance I never said that Oren's Forge is ' just about Martens coming to the Hollow[...]''.
That is a lie and anyone reading my comments can see that I never said anything close to that. That is one example.
So I'll save this discussion going even more sour.
I leave this conversation with you and your straw men.
Like...being an herbivore in this world is *scary*. Any of us were in her shoes, we wouldn't be giving any marten a pass.
Why?
Even if Yarrow had been willing to listen, there's no way in hell the others would've allowed him to live. It's hard enough on them just letting Rask be there, and he came in peace. Yarrow has killed two. Even Oren couldn't have argued for him. They couldn't have let Yarrow get away either, since that would've compromised the security of the valley.
Hemlock ended it the only way it could've ended.
Also, killing Yarrow is de facto self-defense, and Rask has not shown any inclination to attack Hemlock, where the latter knows this, however implicitly.
and tbh I do not see a character like Hemlock able in any way to be willing to redeem herself. Not without being forced. She is too deep into that hate hole. Even saving her did not change her ways
Sorry, I killed you dad.
I so much ssooo much want to say somethign that would bomb this argument but I will not.
But redemption does not always work. you just can try to learn from terrible mistakes and actions and be sorry for them. But redemption is not always possible.
personally I am not a fan of redemption arc since it is a very complicate thing and often coames about forced. I mean. It is often not realistic
(who is Endeaver? )
This must be very doubtful for Rask, first losing Sprig who trusted him and then his father, who had not seen for a long time.
I thought it might end this way, now just to see what he'll do to her :<
Rask has done nothign to her. He even saved her. She waited for him to fight his father, took wounds and then after his father calmed down she stabs him. Now, give me a sane reason NOT to think she is a bitch? There is NO chance she would change her views in any way. She had the chance to notice he Rask saved her and yet she did that. So. No. I want her gone.
I expect her to next try to kill Rask too.
In her defense (loosely mind you) Hemlock see's a dangerous predator that's killed two of her companions and nearly her as well. This predator is also far too close to her home and the helpless children inside so she's just eliminating the threat.
Do I agree with how she went about it? Of course not. Can I see where she might be coming from? Yes.
just cause you believe in something doesn't make it real. oopsie. too bad.
- "open a history book"
i'd advise YOU to do so. humans revenge kill every day. even if it's just an insect for biting or scaring them. speaking of history: what i see is america (picked your place of living now for better understanding) sending troops after troops to other countries to avenge the death of dozens. pearl harbor, 9/11 and so on. nobody is calling them out on this - from your view - depravity. thank you very much.
- "Im legit worried for people like you who think its ok"
never said it was. and i do not support it. but i also know that in some cases it is necessary to avoid even greater suffering. life isn't a bowl of cherries. i'd never kill another human out of revenge over killing a loved one but break their bones if i could. why? because that's just how i am. the person living right next to me probably would do much differently and feel good about the revenge kill. a lot of people feel good after taking any form of revenge and i don't know why because i am not a psychologist but it's the way it is. if you want to know why then go to a psychologist and ask them why our species is so hot for revenge. i believe people who kill need to face a trial. but there are variables that need to be looked into. they also influence the final decision of the court and level of punishment.
would i raise my hand to lock up someone who killed the predator and murderer of his own child? probably not. would i raise my hand to lock up someone who's a gang member and kills a member of another gang to avenge the death of a colleague? probably yes.
i believe hemlock needs a trial and as you like to say: "therapy" but others don't and i'm okay with that. i respect their view. i don't go around trying to play armchair social education worker and psychologist. i'm not running around calling them villains or psychopaths. get off your high horse and stop fighting people liking hemlock and supporting her decision.
and i might remind you that morals and ethics are different from culture to culture. your american and esoteric view of life isn't the view of the whole world and doesn't make it the only right way to live by. you're looking absolutely ignorant right now. just giving you a little reality check here because often enough people like you forget the whole world isn't "their" country. luckily.
we are done here, bud.
I believe Teagan even mentioned at one pont it was a thing on FA in particular how the comments are flooded with people wishing death on one of their characters.
One is stubborn and slow to learn, the other is traumatized and willing to kill any and everyone she procives to be a threat because she doesn't accept the ideals, only the results she favors.
Now the question, will she turn on Rask now or will she acknowledge what he's done for her? My money is on she turns on him but is stopped and gets quite angry about it. She doesn't want peace, she wants blood.
I don't believe in redemtion like my little pony has been painting it lately but I don't think she's completely beyond help.
She'll also likely never see him as anything other than a predator that could potentially eat her and everyone she loves.
It's up to the both of them to let it go and work towards the future at a distance from one another. Mind you, I didn't say forgive, neither is at that point and Hemlock likely never will as she doesn't see her actions as wrong. Rask might concidering the fact that he's actually trying.
Now I wonder if Hemlock will turn on Rask. Oo.
well. I read love to hate. but I do not love to hate her. And I see nothing complex about her. She has prejustices. She is - for what I see up to now not able to accept in her mind that somone is not a merciless killer and I for sure do not expect her to go down the redemption arc. I see right now no chance that she may change at all.
When I am prooven wrong, I will admit so.
Hemlock was easily disarmed and defeated by a marten, a predator the same size as her. Had Rask not stepped in, she would be dead. But that would also create a breach in the defense of Stone Hollow in the sense that a clever and resourceful predator would then take a look at the 'stick' that Hemlock had and come to the conclusion that it would make hunting easier for them. Maybe said predator would only use the spear as a crude tool until it was lost or broken and then revert to tooth and claw once again. But there's the chance that they might take the spear and study it. There's a chance that they might have seen a 'shiny rock' similar to the spear head before and work out that it isn't a rock, but something else much better; copper. Maybe they would then locate that shiny rock and work out the same discoveries that others have and unlock the secrets of smelting and working the copper.
I'll admit that this scenario might be a bit far fetched, but we've already seen how the cougars that caught and killed Hemlock's warren had already moved beyond mere tooth and claw tactics and had been inventing snares and other traps, not to mention the precursor to modern weapons; a pointy stick. A particularly pointy stick is only predated by a rock when it comes to weaponry, but the pointy stick is a much more valuable discovery. Ever since mankind figured out that using a spear gives an advantage against predators and makes hunting and killing (food and each other), we have dedicated a great amount of effort and our greatest minds to figuring out how to make that pointy stick better. Tie a sharp, pointy rock onto the end of the stick and it will stab better. Throw the pointy stick and you can kill from a distance. Make a much smaller pointy stick, but use a bow to turn it into a deadly projectile to kill from even greater distance or from a position with impunity. Move forward about 12,000 years and those pointy sticks have evolved into cruise missiles. I digress, but my point is clear; in a primitive setting such as this, the one that best understands tools will win the contest of survival. As such, such items should be guarded and not allowed to fall into the hands of the enemy, would is what could have potentially happened had Hemlock been alone and killed by Yarrow or another predator.
But onto another question; do I think Hemlock can be redeemed? Answer; it's possible. It would require the breaking of the very foundations of how she believes the world to be to even begin her journey down the road to redemption, but it it possible. Of course, the better question is this; do I think Hemlock WILL be redeemed? Answer; no, I don't think it will happen. Hemlock doesn't want to be 'redeemed' because she believes that she is right and justified in her actions. But that's only my opinion and as I said, it IS possible to redeem her. Teagan may very well have plans for some epic redemption arc. Or maybe Hemlock will forever be the antagonist. Only Teagan knows that for sure.
I understand Hemlock's actions, rational or not, and I understand the trauma she has why her view of predators is so black and white. All I can say is, poor Rask :(
Thank you, blackteagan.
Why again should he not gut that hare ?
I think there is no way out here. she MUST die.
I very much doubt he could of changed, He was very set in his ways.
With the fallen being his own father...I say "Let the crazy out, son!!!"
She's a fictional character, get over yourself.
Why the heck do you feel the need to reply to every dang commenter who doesn't feel the same way as you. I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to the author. Get a life.
That's rich. XD Apparently you constitute "every commenter who doesn't feel the same way" as me, since you're the only one I replied to.
I don't join the patreon, tho. I'm not very comfortable with making such a commitment with my finance. I'd rather pay once than pay monthly.
It's ok. I do like the suspense. I should just learn to not read the comment section anymore.
Also lotta people forgot Yarrow killed Sprig more-or-less because he could, this is practically Karmic.
Okay I really thought Rask would have been the one to kill him, as a result of having no other choice.
If Rask wasn’t fearful of Hemlock before.....
I don't think Hemlock had any reason to believe that Yarrow would listen or change (and from what little we know of Yarrow, she might be right). From her point of view, he's nothing but a threat to her community - he's already killed two of her friends - and Rask's impassioned speech just kept him still long enough, finally, for her to get a good shot.
Going somewhat against the tide, I think Hemlock is my favorite character in the comic. She's so violent and close-minded - but she has every reason to be so. She's already lost one family, and there's nothing she won't do to keep it from happening again. She has good reason to think that Oren and Sprig's optimism about Rask is foolish and naive (and Sprig's death might just reinforce that). She can't afford to hope for the best in people, because she's already seen the worst.
Sure, she might be motivated by revenge, but from where she's standing, everything she's doing is also entirely justified and noble. The existence of predators is a wrong, and she's trying to right it.
If I'd been through what she's been through, I'm pretty sure I'd react exactly the same way.
She's complicated, she's broken, she's strong, and I can admire and empathize with her motivations while also wishing she'd do anything else. She's a fascinating character. I can't wait to see what she does next.