Yayy! :)
Now if only they'd finally accept the American Pit Bull Terrier as a breed in the AKC...

I think the reason they don't is because there's duel registered dogs. It would be an interesting mess with the pedigrees unless if they could figure out a way to make it work. Times are changing at the AKC though, who knows, maybe in the next 50 years...

I've heard that they don't want to associate themselves with dogfighting, and because of the bad image that is portrayed on the APBT

That's likely the impression that they give, but as far as I know, I haven't heard of them saying that. The history of what happened and why the AKC isn't likely to accept the APBT is an interesting mess, even though back then there was that thing where they didn't want to be associated with dog fighting. The 'APBT' was at one time, generally just 'pit bull', and some fanciers wanted their breed recognized. But the AKC wasn't having it with the name and gave them the name Staffordshire Terrier. Well, in time, people started importing Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and to make for less confusion, added on American to the Staffordshire Terrier. The UKC, being the working club that it was, had no issue with 'pit' being in the name and registered them as American Pit Bull Terriers and people took advantage of two clubs and duel registered dogs. More clubs, more competitions, more ribbons, so hey, why not?

Am Staffs have become very typey and less driven, though still much terrier-ish-ness to them. Where in the AKC, you get such a variety of APBTs shown, with the Am Staff and the game types, and the heavier types. Because the UKC's standard is so vague(it's gotten a bit better recently), and judges interpretation, all sorts of dogs can win there. Though in the ADBA, only game types will win anything from what I've noticed online. ~Shrugs~

So yeah, big mess for the pedigrees if they opened up for the APBT, unless if they could figure some way to do so.

Ohhh I get ya. Thanks for the explanation!

I remember some sort of pitbull club from a documentary.. and in order to be allowed to compete, the dogs must show aggression towards one another. Kind of sad, kind of ruins the breed [in my opinion] but whatever

Well, terriers and some other breeds are allowed to exhibit dog/animal aggression, and judges will even have terriers be faced towards each other to make sure they have that attitude of 'I'm the best, I'm top dog'...because terriers just love to spar. So that I can understand with most terrier breeds, but I don't think it should continue(it's not common practice in the states any more anyway) with the bull and terriers due to people not understanding dog and animal aggression=/=human aggression and terriers are fucking terriers.

I got into it with one person on FA who believes all the hooha about 'gameness' and doesn't understand what gameness really is, and why the APBT can still be it's breed and not be fought. But alas, silly romanticized notions of the ignorant.

*chuckles* yeah...you covered enough of it so that I don't have to find the old soap-box.






'terriers are fucking terriers' needs to be a motto on some t-shirt...with a demonic PRT(or JRT, call it how you want to) or Yorkie clearly trying to kill whatever's in front of them...because yes, as you said ALL terriers are prone to that urge to whomp on things. Being bred to tackle things like badgers'll do that do ya lol.



Personally I LOVE the self-stackers, especially outside the ring. They know they're bosses and it shows, even in line at Petco lol.


And ahhhhh, the dying ART form known as cropping -- much as I like it I do wish it would die down in this breed....sooooo many DVM's have shyed away from it that it is HARD to find a caliber cropper...Danes, Dobes, hell even Briards are all crop kids but it takes finesse to get 'em to look just right. A Dane with am AmStaff show cut'd look stupid...as would said AmStaff with a Dobe show length crop lol......


'Gameness' is what makes ALL terriers the way they are -- it's not 'let me eat that thing in front of me' somuch as 'never say uncle' :)


/miniramble lol

It really cracked me up because...one of the shows I was at, Scotties were in the ring and a a couple of the little scrappers tried...well...scrap. And some people freaked out, but one of the Chow handlers was like 'It's fine, they're terriers! They're fucking terriers!' If I had been drinking anything, I'm sure I would have choked and sputtered.

I actually like the short crop across the board for short coated breeds(or the rounded crop on the Cimarron). But then again, I believe in purpose when it comes to cropping. Of course Great Danes would probably now be utter failures at hunting(at least with most US lines-they're so absurdly clunky in their movement. I've seen a British import amongst 5 US Danes and there just was no comparison.), but still. It really sucks that vets are moving away from cropping, as well as docking(mostly thanks to pesky ARs), especially in a breed that has a higher tendency to fight. But then again, people have come to believe that cropping and docking are both purely cosmetic, especially those who have no dealings with the working dog.

In Karelian Bear Dogs, their 'gameness' is distinctly referred to as Sisu...which is a favored word in Finland. All workings breeds have some sort of gameness, otherwise they'd just lay down and pretend to die at the first sign of an owie. X3

Uggh I don't know why people glorify the aggression/want to fight to the death with pitbulls. It's sad, it destroys the breed, it rips innocent dogs out of their homes [I live in a city where any breed that LOOKS like a pit.. such as staffs, amstaffs, ambullies, ambulldogs, dogos, cane corso, etc etc are BANNED] and it's just not something that someone should look at and say "HEY! Cool! We should continue breeding aggressive dogs"

It's an odd thing that the same thing that made the breed so stable in the first place is being used to destroy them and other breeds. Honestly, dog fighting could have gone unnoticed and ignored for the most part if thugs didn't take them to be duel purpose for dog fighting and drug guarding, which it's the latter part that is the issue because that entails developing high drive dogs that will protect against people...only, because these people have no idea about drives and such, they abused dogs into it, then the media took off running with the stories to make profits and...well, read The Pit Bull Placebo(available for free as a pdf online) if you haven't and read the part about Bloodhounds.

I was born and raised in Miami, Florida, so I've been there, done that, cried my heart out due to the ban and ignorance there. And thus, I'm grateful for Oklahoma. May not be the best on the animal front, but they abolished the breed ban in Midwest City recently, so we've got a few things going for us.

<i>take them to be duel purpose for dog fighting and drug guarding</i>
Ooomg and then you get the man-aggressive dogs getting loose.


Lucky guys :( We were the first place to ban it [I think]

Yep, especially during police raids. Which was the whole reason the media went nuts with it....because of the police raids.

Denver?

What's funny is Australia had the first breed ban ever on the German Shepherd from 1929 to 1970-something. Because they feared they'd breed with dingos and create a super predator. -.-

Nahh not Denver :( Windsor, Ontario.

HAHAHAHAH WHAT. WHAT. THAT'S THE MOST BIZZARE THING I'VE EVER HEARD

Ah, not sure how long ago on Windsor. Denver has had theirs since 89/90, Miami put there's in 90/91. @.@

Yeah, but remember, back then, GSDs were often called the Alsatian Wolfdog, and were noted for their intelligence.....which in their case is more trainability...GSDs aren't the most clever of breeds on their own....but people didn't know that. >.>',,

Ohh crap, nope it was 2005 here
http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/b.....ederinfo11.htm

I read somewhere that the "dumbest" dog was the Afghan Hound? ahaha
and the "smartest" being the Border Collie.. I don't know how accurate that is though.

Well, consider an Afghan is smart enough to know when an opportunity is available. Like you're not home to know they're getting in the fridge and eating an entire cheese wheel(it has happened to someone). But hounds work away from you, they don't care what you want, and they need to be independent thinkers.

Border Collies are meant to work with someone, alone...they just make their own fun out of boredom, which apparently results in serious destruction of the household. Different types of intelligence for different reasons, which is why I don't buy into the dumbest dog/smartest dog bit.

Thank you for the explanation! :)

My grandma owned either an Akita or a Basenji.. I forget which.. she said they're destructive dogs.

They both can be from what I hear. I think the funniest 'destruction' story I've ever read was a tie between Italian Greyhounds TPing the entire upstairs to a house and Worst Bully Nightmare on this page: http://www.madcapbullterriers.com/i.....es/Page428.htm The first story is hilarious too and my absolute favorite so far of just BT stories.

OMFG
I LOVED THE 2ND ONE

Also, you and me need to talk more. It's hard finding another furry that I can talk animal, especially dog stuff to, and have them get it.

I'd love to!! I love talkin about dog breeds :)

Well, if you're able to, my YIM/MSN is silverkarja[at]yahoo.com Though yahoo hates my guts and only adds half the people I accept it seems... -.- Otherwise, chatter away via comments or notes. ^-^

Sweet! I'm addin ya on msn :)