Never met and agender person but pretty much all it comes down to is respecting what they wish to be called, simple as that. However coming from someone who gets certain genders wrong unless they're hammered into my dumb ass head, the most I ask for is someone to bear with me should I get it wrong a few times X3

That was pretty much my point as well, love, right on the money.

I know when people re-marry or go through some other name-change it can be a particularly flustering time for both them and the people they communicate with, getting referred to by an "old name". Providing they're willing to be understanding as to the difficulties of others, I see no reason to not give people slack. "What's in a name?" and all that...

We all make concessions for others, whether we realize it or not. *shrugs* Some people just want to be assholes about it.

Probably because most of the members of the "Agender group" aren't minding their own damn business at all and are instead crying out every time someone doesn't submitt themselves to being forced into following their idea of how our language should "evolve", intead of how it does so naturally.

Also, "Agender" doesn't really exist as it in itself is a "social construct". There's only people who don't care what gender they are, and those that do. I don't care if you call me a girl or a boy, it doesn't effect me or my life one bit. But if you start screaming at me because I don't want to call you by your so called "prefered pronouns", well, that sounds like a problem with you, not me. As offense can only be taken, never given.

And if you're going to ruin a potential friendship simply because they refuse to submit themselves to your ideolgy, then that's also Your Loss. Relationships are a two-way street afterall. You can't expect rules for you to be different from everyone else. OH and then there are people such as yourself who act all protentious about standing on your own higher moral ground while denouncing anyone else who shows even the slightest bit of opposition or critisim for how incredibly protentious you're being. (Aka, you're a hypocrite. I mean, so am I, but I'm willing to admitt to it as i seriously hate double-standards.)

TL;DR That's the problem that people have with "agender folks", it's the exact same problem that people have with "religous folks" or "the man/government". No one likes being told what to do and everyone hates double standards.

I am curious, love. Did you even read any of the info on this before you went on that tirade? Because you kind of just said everything I already addressed in that...

However, to address the point you just made yourself, if someone politely asks you to refer to them by a name or pronoun which you think is incorrect and decide to treat them in the way you're reacting here- "if you're going to ruin a potential friendship simply because they refuse to submit themselves to your ideolgy, then that's also Your Loss".

We're all hypocrites, love. That's why I never use the term. I even posted an entire journal saying just that.

First of all, thank you for replying in such a respectful mannor… It's different than the last time I spoke to you, so good for you. It means you're growing and maturing. Don't get me wrong, I do still think it's protentious, but I would like to give credit where credit is due. Most of my first reply was based upon that. You know, with me half expecting something a tad more vicous coming back. Again, thank you. Now to actually reply.

I did read some of it, but, dude, you actually didn't adress anything that I mentioned within it. Maybe somehow in a vague sense, but my point was actually about something else in answering the question posed in the image you made.

Now, If they are respectful, then they would also be just as respectful with me when I refuse their request as well. I have gone up against my own peers for years, most of whom did not respect me because I was younger than them. Once, I have even gotten in trouble before because I had forgottent to call my vice principal "Sir". Mind you, I really had forgotten at first. He was far too busy yelling at me for crimes I didn't committ, for me to remember to be respectful to him, that the very concept of saying "yes sir" had quite litterally slipped my mind. (Especially when I was innocent of what he was accusing me of.) When I realized that he wanted me to essentially thank him for putting me through a kangaroo court, I then refused. This is because to me, Respect (outside of common courtesy) is Earned, not Demanded. That's my impression of what constitutes, "Respect".

I'm sure that there are plenty of agendered individauls who are deserving of respect, such as the friend you've mentioned. (And you yourself was born intersexed, so there's that.) However, the vast majority of those agender individauls that the rest of us encounter, simply aren't (as in both actually Agender (aka A TransTrender) and/or deserving of respect). It's kind of like spending your whole life living near the Westborough Church. You'd grow up thinking that all Christians act like that, when the fact of the matter is that most are nothing like that. It's one of the downsides of being part of a "group". The sins of other members bleed in for the rest of us. It's why I hate all of this Identity Politics.

I, myself, believe in being honest and upfront about things. But just because it's "honest", doesn't mean that it's something people want to hear, let alone respectful. Like someone recently said, “Because in order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive. I mean, look at the conversation we’re having right now. You’re certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth. Why should you have the right to do that? It’s been rather uncomfortable. You’re doing what you should do, which is digging a bit to see what the hell is going on. And that is what you should do. But you’re exercising your freedom of speech to certainly risk offending me, and that’s fine. More power to you, as far as I’m concerned.”

Mind you, I'm not "Offended" by you, but I've talked to enough people to know that simpley stating something (even the truth) as simply as humanly possible will lead to far more problems than it should.

TL;DR Thank you for being patient with me. We've all had bad experiences that cloud our better judgement. And sorry for the long reply, but it's not a "tyrade" as "I'm not offended", just trying to be thorough so my words (hopefully) won't be taken out of context.

I see. I'm not sure what you're alluding to, as I try to make it a practice to not communicate online. The only reason I'm doing so now is a combination of both illness and a certain optimistic curiosity. I know I've never left any manner of comment on your page, love, certainly nothing quite so aggressive or inflammatory, s'not really my practice. If I've wronged you somehow in the past I do apologize.

As far as pretentiousness goes, I'm really not sure where you're coming from. As is, the word means "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.". I don't know you or generally care to impress you. I've simply stated my viewpoint on something.

"The freedoms of others should be respected, including the right to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own" This is one of the tenets. I very seldom comment on others' work for this reason entirely. If I were to be rude to others' I'd expect them to be rude back. That's the nature of civil communication. I respect others' boundaries and ask only the same. If someone doesn't like my work *shrugs* they don't have to watch me. Go watch someone else. It really won't hurt my feelings at all. I don't do this for anyone's approval

At least as you stated, we share the same general rule of respect and I agree that a person, for better or ill, is generally judged by the company they keep "I.E. the least among your group is the standard". Basic civility is a standard or at least I agree that it should be. However, being "honest" isn't the same as being "rude" love, or being courteous to others. If someone has been harsh with you, I can understand you returning their harsh demeanor. (It sounds like your VP may be kind of dink by the way. Bad scene, there.) If they've been polite with you and you treated them with rancor, that's on you. On your own page you state a fursona name you'd prefer to be used in communication, thus I use that with you, or at least I would if I ever met you, that is until you suggested you'd prefer a different name. I would respect that.

As to my querry on you reading the info section of the art, my meaning was that you were doing exactly as I'd mentioned, love, making a blustery to-do over something relatively simple. I mentioned nothing about someone screaming at you or crying or what-not, demanding that you submit to their whim. This was a hypothetical you interjected from what seems to be your own unfortunate experience. Such behaviour would be inappropriate and childish, to be sure. However, that's not the issue. I only stated what I did, that I don't understand why people, such as yourself, make such a big issue about something so minor as someone asking them to use different pronouns. If they feel like a "they/them" rather than a "he/she" I see no reason to be a jerk about it.

Is it really worth all this vitriol to you?

As to my querry on you reading the info section of the art, my meaning was that you were doing exactly as I'd mentioned, love, making a blustery to-do over something relatively simple.

Sorry, but like I also said in my own reply, i can't keep things simple. If I did that, then people can very easily take the words that I choose to use and pull them entirely out of context. Not to mention, it's not as simple as that. It is for you, but not for the rest of us. (See the bus example.)

Also at the end of all this, You did inquire that you "don't understand", and I did tell you why in order to attempt to answer. I was by no means accusing you of screaming, but pointing out that that is what the vast majority of us have to face. They don't bother you because you're the ones that they're "defending", if not then claiming to be part of. These are the individuals that put themselves out there and make the others look bad. It's not really about "the company you keep", but the ruining of said reputation for said group.

Hell, there are still people out there that look down on me just because I'm a Furry thanks to that one C.S.I. episode. I don't even like sex. It is an inevitable thing and usually I can just shrug it off, but it's kind of hard to do when every time a family member of mine wants to give it a chance, that then a couple of fellow furries offer us a foursome, or are seling BDSM gear in the booth next over, or tells us about their visual novel (In Excrusiating Detail… now that's a scary story), then it's very hard for me to "shrug it off".

Is it really worth all this vitriol to you?

It is actually. So long as you understand, that I was not accusing YOU of this behavior, but rather answering the question that was proposed, which was "why do they make it such a big deal?" That's why.

Which doesn't even go to mention things like the movements like Bill C-16 to make it into legislation to punish those that refuse to be what both have agreed/call "not a big deal" and "respectful". It's respectful to let people live their lives, but once there is a threat like Bill C-16. That Actually is a big deal especially once something so invasive is passed into law.

I didn't say you accused me of screaming, love. I only said that that was the hypothetical you raised -"most of the members of the "Agender group" aren't minding their own damn business at all and are instead crying out every time someone doesn't submitt themselves to being forced into following their idea of how our language should "evolve" -and also is not the issue I raised at all.

I don't know whom you're referring to as "defending" me, love. I'd like to thank them, whomever they are, though I can and do do all my own fighting if I feel it's even worth getting up for.

The bus example you used is a realistic scenario and one I can understand, yes but it's also not quite so simple. Getting up from your seat for someone else would require a bit more effort on your part than simply adding one or two keystrokes in online communication(they/them vs he/she) or no additional effort in face-to-face communication beyond the mental detail of conscientious attention to one's own dialogue.

I am again confused by your statements. You say "the vast majority of us" but, again, who is the "us" you refer to? You seem to be positioning yourself to speak for a large group of people on a point which I, as part of 'us', have never seen occur. As I stated in another conversation, I've no doubt someone has blown up over this point in the past, likely someone is doing so now, somewhere. I've seen people get upset over being mis-gendered IRL, just as I've seen people get upset over many things, disrespects and slights both real and only perceived, much as you seem to be doing now. However, I have yet to see anyone "scream" or "cry" over such.

If I'm picking up what you're setting down, reading over the issue of Bill C-16 it seems that you're upset that it's now a law in your country to accept gender identity as a real thing- which it is, this has been proven by doctors, psychologists, physicians and the like, in studies going on over twenty years now in multiple countries- and that it's now a protected status. I can't see how this is an issue. It is my assertion that a person shouldn't be unjustly terminated from employment or evicted from their home, otherwise denied opportunity based on their personal life, either. Religious belief, ethnicity, race, sexuality, gender identity or expression, (or being a furry ;P)whether I agree with any of these things or not, providing they're not causing any harm to others, why should I care? How is this Bill you've brought up -which again is not the issue at hand- infringing upon you, me or anyone?

Wow… either you have a lot of practice in acting, or you really don't get it.

I didn't say you accused me of screaming, love.

Nor did i.

I only said that that was the hypothetical you raised -"most of the members of the "Agender group" aren't minding their own damn business at all and are instead crying out every time someone doesn't submit themselves to being forced into following their idea of how our language should "evolve" -and also is not the issue I raised at all.

True, but it is the issue that I had raised. Namely that those in that identify as "Agender" or one of the "72 genders" tend to act in a manor that is not respectful in the least. Rather taking actions that are actually quite Marxist sometimes even Fascist.

You know, like the idea of silencing anyone who doesn't agree from being able to speak, by calling them names, swarming their platforms, making false accusations, and false bomb threats in order to get platforms shut down. Seems like it happens all the time now, so I don't see how you can't know what I'm referring to.

I don't know whom you're referring to as "defending" me, love. I'd like to thank them, whomever they are, though I can and do do all my own fighting if I feel it's even worth getting up for.

Ever heard of a "white knight"? Or "the soft bigotry of low expectations"? Or how about the aforementioned "TransTrenders" crowd (aka people who say that they're "trans" because it's trendy, not because they have legitimate Gender Dysphoria)? Yeah, those type of people. The type of people who like to baby those that they consider as "victims" and speak for them. They are the type of people that I kind of thought you were. (Of which, I still think it was you, but it could have been someone else that was arguing with me on one of you past posts. It was like over a year ago. It's weird, I forget faces, names and numbers, but I never forget a character. Anywho, if it really wasn't you, I do apologize. But if it was, then (as my mother would say) accept the compliment and move one, or don't. Either way.)

Something tells me you'd probably smack them right in the jaw though for daring to do so.

The bus example you used is a realistic scenario and one I can understand, yes but it's also not quite so simple. Getting up from your seat for someone else would require a bit more effort on your part than simply adding one or two keystrokes in online communication(they/them vs he/she) or no additional effort in face-to-face communication beyond the mental detail of conscientious attention to one's own dialogue.

You missed the point of the bus example here. The example had nothing to do with the difficulty of the action, but rather the attitude that you receive from "obedience" or "defiance". If something is truly "no big deal", then it shouldn't matter if the person does it or not. Simply because it is "no big deal"

You however, see no issue in adding those few strokes. I don't either especially when RPing or for a friend of mine. But should for any reason I deliberately refuse? Well, suddenly it suddenly turns into a big deal. It's quite contradictory, don't you think?

But in both the bus and the communication via text, the true issue is the "Gandalf Effect." First it's one dwarf, then 3, then 7 then 13, and suddenly you're whisked away on an adventure that is entirely out of your control or desires. The fact of the matter is that it's never "just a small favor", "just five minutes" or "just one dwarf".

I am again confused by your statements. You say "the vast majority of us" but, again, who is the "us" you refer to? …

The thing is only like 1/100 people can identify as gay, transexual, or intersexed. After that there's at most 9% of individuals who are Activists. Meaning that most of the people who enter the conversation are usually the Uninformed, fence sitters, or those who actively oppose that 9% (Of whom also includes members of that first 1/100). People like say, Blaire White, Dave Rubin and Milo Yianopolis and the like.

I've seen people get upset over being mis-gendered IRL, just as I've seen people get upset over many things, disrespects and slights both real and only perceived, much as you seem to be doing now. However, I have yet to see anyone "scream" or "cry" over such.

I have. Quite often actually, albeit usually for different reasons than "misgendering". Closest I had to "misgendering" someone was at my last convention. I called someone a dude. She mentioned that she was actually a girl. I replied, "Sorry, I call everyone 'dude'." and we got back to playing CAH. That I think anyone can respect. (Face it, in the furry fandom, it's hard to tell who's a girl and who's just a sissy, you know?)

However, take Jordan Peterson for example. The first time that he came into the main stream, it was because he opposed Bill C-16. One of the first things that happened was quite literally that aforementioned "marxist" and "fascist" behaviors and many more who screamed and whined. However, at the time, they called it raging over "hate speech".

If I'm picking up what you're setting down, reading over the issue of Bill C-16 it seems that you're upset that it's now a law in your country to accept gender identity as a real thing- which it is,

Sadly, you're not. Bill C-16 isn't about putting into law that "gender identity as a thing" There is no question about that. (Although we both could argue about which genders are real all year long, wont make a difference. I actually read the list… whooboy… [Also… any idea why "Cismale/CisFemale" "Transmale/Transfemale" and "Male/female" are classified six separate genders instead of just two? That's never made any sense to me. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I guess we could just move on…])

What's upsetting me and the vast majority of people is the idea that you are FORCED by LAW to behave in a certain way and to speak in a certain manor or else face jail time. That's not freedom. It's quite invasive and entirely unnecessary. And it certainly not "respectful". What pisses me off is that if someone's individual Feelings are hurt can cause you to be locked up in jail or fined. And like you said, " It is my assertion that a person shouldn't be unjustly terminated from employment or evicted from their home, otherwise denied opportunity based on their personal life,… whether I agree with any of these things or not, providing they're not causing any harm to others, why should I care?" SImply put because they ARE causing harm. The very ones that you suggested here.

In other words, Bill C-16, is not a shield to protect transgenders. It's a sword to slay the opposition and anyone else unfortunate enought to piss certain individuals off.

gender identity as a real thing- which it is, this has been proven by doctors, psychologists, physicians and the like, in studies going on over twenty years now in multiple countries- and that it's now a protected status.

Also, you may want to take a look at these studies that you claim exist. As most, if not all, have to do with Male&Female genders, not one of which was seriously done on the "Agender" identity, let alone any done on the "72 genders" (most of which had only been created within the last 5 years at most.). So it's kind of deceptive to state, "gender identity as a real thing because of studies that have been done" when the studies had nothing to do with any gender besides the basic Male/Female dynamic.

If you have evidence to the contrary, then by all means provide citations. For as the saying goes, "The burdon of proof lies on the one who made the claim."

TL;DR: Citations Needed

Okay... I believe this experiment has gone on long enough.

Love, after all this you still don't seem to get the fact of the matter or see your own behaviour- that no one here has "attacked" you, no one has "bullied" or "harassed" you. You are the one doing all of that. You have insulted me repeatedly, which I have not returned, and apparently held someone else's actions against me as "defending" or "white-knighting" me. If someone has actually attacked you for something elsewhere, that is your issue with them, not me. I've done nothing to you of which I'm aware.

I'm not stupid, nor am I acting. I do see your position. I'm only trying to be polite and see things from your perspective, which still isn't addressing the original point. I get that you want the right to be as rude and hateful or not as you wish, a right which you already have, as do I. (Also, not the original question) However, you also seem to feel you should have no accountability for your actions, (ie) 'If I comply with their request, that's okay. If I don't, then I'm an asshole.' Yes, you are. That's how that works. It's the rules of polite and orderly society. You get out what you put in, or at least should. "The only reward of virtue is virtue".

Completely off the original topic- What I read of that bill is exactly what I stated, that "gender Identity" is now a protected status. That is what it stated on the first few lines of every heading I found online- and what you seem to be so upset about. If it upsets you so much that some person now has the same protection as you, me or everyone else, that's on you. Everyone gets the same cookie, be they a straight white cis male or something else entirely. I can no more hire or fire a person based on their gender identity than any other status? *shrugs* So? I hadn't planned to, nor would I. No skin off my nose and good for them. However, other people do all that and worse. This is why these laws get made. If people weren't doing it, unjustly firing/evicting(etc) people based on gender identity, there wouldn't have to be law, just as in any situation. Black people were treated as less than animals in America for centuries. We outlawed that. People continued to mistreat them so we had to outlaw that. It's embarrassing that the government should have to step in in such a situation but that is what it's there for.

There have been dozens of studies over the years on the subject of gender, gender identity and expression in both the U.S. and U.K. alone. I can't speak for Canada but given their 1st-world status I'd imagine they've done so as well. As this seems to be such a big deal to you, I suggest you look them up yourself. This has already taken up enough time and energy on my part.

I normally don't waste time arguing with people on the internet but as I said, between being too ill to do much else and sheer optimism, I continued this long with you. I have other responsibilities and better use of my time. I'll ask that you please drop this. You've made your point. If you wish to continue on, it's your life. Live it with as much love or hate as you wish.

*tips her hat* One love.

All in all, I agree that it's not a "big deal". But at the same time, the opposite wouldn't be true.

Using an unrelated example: If we're on a bus, you ask me to move from my seat, it's usually not "a big deal" if I move or even stand so you can sit (Especially if say you're carrying a heavy load, pregnant, etc…)

However, (and this is the controversial part) I also have the right to say "no". But should I do that… Suddenly, it's no longer "not a big deal". I'm suddenly declaired as an asshole, even if the person I refused to move for has no heavy load or my burden would be heavier than theirs. I'd call that a double standard. That is my experience with things that "aren't a big deal".

TL;DR: Basically, it's not a big deal if I obey, it's a mountain of trouble if I don't. That's a double standard that I wont stand for. (Um… no pun intended… ehehe…)

Irony continues to astound me. I just met an Agender person the other day, and they're quite lovely ^w^

*head tilts* That was kind of what I was thinking. I've seen some of the ranting tirades some people go on about how they "scream" and "cry" about "being treated special" but have yet to encounter such. *shrugs* The only ones I've ever communicated with seemed to be pretty cool people, just had a different way of being people. S'all good to me.

I agree, the person I met was very chill ^w^ they weren't rude or screaming for attention or any of the sort~!

Honestly, I think what it is is one of those "telephone game" things... Again, I am not saying it has never happened, that some Agender or Non-binary what-have-you has blown up over the point. We all over-react and say/do really... dumb... shit. *laughs* Jeezus knows I have.

Still. I think it's a often matter of something getting bigger in the re-telling. A simple correction of speech becomes "got huffy about it" in the first re-telling. That turns into "made a deal about it", then "made a big deal about it" then five people later it was "they just blew up about it". It's not deliberately lying but it's not entirely being honest.

I should probably also add that I'm not including internet exchanges on that point. Anyone can claim to be anything online, for any reason. Someone can cause any manner of drama to discredit a group, get under some specific person's skin or just because they enjoy being mean.

This is true, talk about putting a foot in your mouth lol. I've never understood why some people are bothered by the simplest of things in this day and age.. It's almost as if people become bored and have a need to stir the pot a little 'just' because they want to see a reaction to please themselves or to feed some other kind of need.

Unfortunately for me, a lot of the agender folks that I met online, I met none IRL as far as I'm aware, have been less than understanding about the fact that it takes some time for others who are willing to adapt to actually adapt.

I mean, since we're born, we're basically told that breasts = female = she, and penis = male = he. Everywhere, from school to medias to everyday's conversation, this is presented as a law of nature, and everyone who doesn't conform to it is either ill or going through 'a phase', their 'rebellious youth' and so on.

Thus it's hard to break that habit, that automatism, to label anyone with breasts as a female thus use the pronoun she when referring to that person, and same with penis = male = he.

But among the few agender people I've met, mostly among the furry community, only one has been understanding enough to forgive me when I relapsed into using gendered pronoun, and we've become quite close friends. Others have yelled at me, insulted me and so on, even when there was no obvious mention anywhere in their FA front page about being agender and wanting to be referred to using agender pronoun for them and their characters. How am I supposed to know if it's not written anywhere or you don't tell me?

I had similar experiences with some transgender furries as well, who post a ref of their character sporting breasts and a vagina, do not put anywhere that the character needs to be addressed as a he, then yell and insult people when they use she for a character that checks all the boxes for what current society define as female thus one must use the she pronoun.

All of this to say that, as usual, communication is key. Especially online. If you don't communicate, if you don't say it, people can't know and thus will revert to the standard of today's society. And remember that understanding goes both ways: I'm perfectly happy to use whatever pronoun you wish, just tell me beforehand and understand that I may relapse because it takes some time to adapt and fight the reflexes that have been ingrained in our minds since before we could even truly understand words.

Very well said love and I can definitely agree with your points. Thank you.

OW... I'm re-adjusting my positioning in this chair as the little sequins on the butt of my jeans are digging into my rump and it's really getting annoying... I'm sniffling up snot and now my ass hurts.

Although I do very little communicating online, I've met many trans people IRL, MTF and FTM, a very few "herms" and only a handful of the non-binary, agender and other such. I know that for many of them, their respective gender is a large part of their identity and their concept of self-worth so I reeeeeeeeally try to be respectful and remember to stick to neutral pronouns if or until they speak up on the point.

I've yet to have anyone get insulting, shouty or angry with me about any missteps in communication, so I may have just lucked out on that. *shrugs* I dunno. Granted, I'm sure there are assholes among the group, as there are in any group who probably do. Some people will freak right the fuck out about anything and over-react to otherwise well-intentioned people.

My husband often says "It's better to assume someone hurts you out of ignorance rather than malevolence". which seems like pretty good advice to me.

Take your jeans off and get a large plush pillow on the chair? I'm sure your hubby wouldn't mind.

It's a good advice IRL, but, in my experience, it's much less true online. The relative anonymity of the internet acts as a magnifying glass for the dark side of humanity, and people will say things online that wouldn't dare IRL, because there is little, if any, repercussions. Which is part of the reasons why I don't have any social media account. The other part is that I like my private life to remain private, and the recent slew of scandals involving the big social networks leaking the private of their users to companies without their accord only reinforce my belief that I made the right choice.

Oh I don't think that he would, no. *chuckles* Good advice, love. Then again, he's busy killing things on Diablo 3 right now and I think he may actually be even sicker than me, poor dear.

I think you and I might get along like cake and a fork IRL, love. I had a facebook once upon a forever ago but I got very tired of all the negativity and so on. Any difference of opinion was "A war". Any expression of sadness or loss was "A plea for attention". People seem perfectly fine with being horrible to each other for no good reason and justify the whole lot of embarrassing jaskassery with some vague slag about "free speech" or whatnot. Of course you can say whatever you want on the internet. That doesn't mean you necessarily should. It just got so disgusting to see so much negativity and cruelty I dropped that garbage and never looked back.

I know that right now there's a good dozen or so groups just on this site that I'd likely find morally repugnant but I ignore them and leave them to their horrid little ways. I've only ever asked the same courtesy.

Makes me wonder which one of us would be the cake and which one would be the fork. That being said, I'm a firm believer that 'turnabout is fair play'.

I get a feeling that the people who do that online do it precisely because they cannot do it IRL. For whatever reasons. It doesn't matter if they randomly attack people online and make them feel bad, because it makes them feel good and is a sort of stress relief. I'd say it's even worst in the US with the almost sacrosanct Constitution that gets thrown in your face right away if you say anything.

I believe that's a dinner-party worth having, love.

I feel you're probably right. I know from experience that the rude tossers I've encountered online seem much less apt to throw out their opinions when you meet them at a convention. I understand their need to blow off steam. Life can be pretty fucking awful at times but I don't understand their need to do so at another's expense. *furrows her brow* S'just rude and no way to treat a stranger, much less a potential friend.

I don't have much experience with any non-U.S. websites but I know my own country has developed something of a reputation for a very self-important attitude in dealings with others. Many of us seem to project a "I can be as rude as I like and if you call me out on it, then you're the asshole/P.C. Police/whatever" kind of affair...

Yeah, if you need to blow off steam, play a game, do some sport or yell at a wall, but don't spread the negativity around.

Unfortunately, it's true that many US people online project that feeling around, and also blast the rest of the world for many imagined slights, including stupid things said by the ass sitting in the Oval Office at the moment.

Oh smegging hell, yes. I know coming home from the lab I sometimes have to take a few minutes for myself to avoid being a bitch to my family, whether I'd mean to or not. Doing so deliberately seems unconscionable to me.

Oh mighty Hera... *groans* The Marmalade Despot... *laughs* Yeah... there's an example of the failings of our electoral process if ever there's been one. I get lashing out at people or groups of people who have already harmed another. I do. I don't think it's necessarily right to resort to violencing someone physically maybe but there's also a huge difference between righteous indignation and just being an asshole. That guy's a total dick-burger.

I very rarely use someone's pronoun after I know their name. Pronouns are mostly used when I don't know the person but I require some form of generic descriptor based on looks so that other people can accurately guess to who I am referring to.

That's a pretty good point, love. Seems a pretty good approach to communication. Nice.

Sing it with me folks.

"To be yourself is all that you can dooo, heeey,
To be yourself is all that you can dooo~"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H31da52awF4

You know, I'd actually forgotten that song? *rubs her temples* Holy hell, I feel badly now. How could I forget AUDIOSLAVE....

I think I need a shower or something. Damn. Thanks for the reminder, love.

No prob, sweety. It's a really good song with an equally good message. Chris Cornell is sadly no longer with us to sing it himself. *hangs his head*