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HURR, I WAS SICK AGAIN
SO I WAS LIKE FFFFFF I SHOULD MAKE ANOTHER ONE
HURRRRRRRRR I AM MAEK
Apollo
...wtf. I should just stop making things after I've puffed the magic dragon. It looks like a freakin' raptor or short-billed corvid. Not a bad thing, but Nephis is more... horsey-shaped. I think I can salvage this though... unlike the last one this one doesn't have the beak yet, which can theoretically change the look of the whole thing. Gonna have to fix those cheeks too, I think...
Remind me to actually measure his head later. I keep forgetting we're not the same size and building stuff on my head. This one's lose on me though, perhaps it will fit him. We will find out tonight!
Construction notes:
Tried a new technique with this head. Nephis couldn't fit in the last head I built on account of the balaclava base, so I made one without this time. It's a "cap" (like this one http://www.sparkcostumes.com/head05.JPG but the cheek panels are a little different).
This head, like the previous WIP, has a semi-floating moving jaw. At least, I think that's what the word is. It's a chin flap (foam in these cases) that's one attached to the rest of the head via thin elastics (like the kind you use for sewing, not rubber bands) to the cheek panels. I found it works pretty well and appears pretty durable.
Unlike Sakaika's head, I did not put any weird shit in here like excessive use of mesh, Model Magic (hate that stuff), coat hangers, and felt (WHAT WAS I THINKING?!). The idea behind Sakaika and this head were to get them to resist some pretty intense wear and tear before they needed to be repaired. Sakaika is doing pretty well, but there is definite room for improvement (especially when her jaw pops open at awkward moments; I left the brads in for the pivot points coz I forgot to put in permanent ones). The head has NO pivot point (it's held in place via elastics and snaps back by itself) so I won't have to worry about fixing it all the time. Also, the elastics are WTFGLUED in there real nice, and I can't see them wearing out anytime soon from normal use.
Erf, need to go AFK now and um, smoke some more dragon, and you can interpret that any way you want.
Also, fuck you (<3!)to
pinkle for infecting me with the "ffffffffffff" phrase. It's wormed its way into my speech pattern D:
SO I WAS LIKE FFFFFF I SHOULD MAKE ANOTHER ONE
HURRRRRRRRR I AM MAEK
Apollo...wtf. I should just stop making things after I've puffed the magic dragon. It looks like a freakin' raptor or short-billed corvid. Not a bad thing, but Nephis is more... horsey-shaped. I think I can salvage this though... unlike the last one this one doesn't have the beak yet, which can theoretically change the look of the whole thing. Gonna have to fix those cheeks too, I think...
Remind me to actually measure his head later. I keep forgetting we're not the same size and building stuff on my head. This one's lose on me though, perhaps it will fit him. We will find out tonight!
Construction notes:
Tried a new technique with this head. Nephis couldn't fit in the last head I built on account of the balaclava base, so I made one without this time. It's a "cap" (like this one http://www.sparkcostumes.com/head05.JPG but the cheek panels are a little different).
This head, like the previous WIP, has a semi-floating moving jaw. At least, I think that's what the word is. It's a chin flap (foam in these cases) that's one attached to the rest of the head via thin elastics (like the kind you use for sewing, not rubber bands) to the cheek panels. I found it works pretty well and appears pretty durable.
Unlike Sakaika's head, I did not put any weird shit in here like excessive use of mesh, Model Magic (hate that stuff), coat hangers, and felt (WHAT WAS I THINKING?!). The idea behind Sakaika and this head were to get them to resist some pretty intense wear and tear before they needed to be repaired. Sakaika is doing pretty well, but there is definite room for improvement (especially when her jaw pops open at awkward moments; I left the brads in for the pivot points coz I forgot to put in permanent ones). The head has NO pivot point (it's held in place via elastics and snaps back by itself) so I won't have to worry about fixing it all the time. Also, the elastics are WTFGLUED in there real nice, and I can't see them wearing out anytime soon from normal use.
Erf, need to go AFK now and um, smoke some more dragon, and you can interpret that any way you want.
Also, fuck you (<3!)to
pinkle for infecting me with the "ffffffffffff" phrase. It's wormed its way into my speech pattern D:
Category Photography / Fursuit
Species Western Dragon
Size 688 x 668px
File Size 140.4 kB
I don't know what the original concept art looked like but I would highly suggest staying away from avian/raptor influence when doing a dragon head. Otherwise you end up with something looking like a hippogriff or some similar animal. If the original concept art has a beaked look, then you might want to try for having the tip of the snout as a hardened carapace looking thing, rather than the entire snout itself.
Such as this: http://piclib.nhm.ac.uk/piclib/webi.....0/4729_med.jpg gives you bit of an idea.
You said Western Archetype, so you might look into the face shape of carnivore dinosaurs, especially the raptor family (dino's not birds), and the smaller cousins of T-Rex. A lot of western dragon heads pull influence seemingly straight from dinosaurs if you take the time to look at it.
Zeke and I have done a dragon head but it's a completely different archetype. You can see what it looked like before it was fleshed out though here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOatQjJobs that may or may not be useful since you are building using a different technique.
Also, be careful with that cap technique. Plastic mesh might seem like a good idea at first. The problem is it likes to warp. Once it gets warped or accidentally sat you cannot exactly fix it. It's why I stopped using it. I got tired of with trial runs you would do everything perfect but the moment you would try to do things like adjust a mouth, or apply material over it it would warp and things would end up crooked. So be sure to be gentle with it, it's not as tough as it might seem.
Such as this: http://piclib.nhm.ac.uk/piclib/webi.....0/4729_med.jpg gives you bit of an idea.
You said Western Archetype, so you might look into the face shape of carnivore dinosaurs, especially the raptor family (dino's not birds), and the smaller cousins of T-Rex. A lot of western dragon heads pull influence seemingly straight from dinosaurs if you take the time to look at it.
Zeke and I have done a dragon head but it's a completely different archetype. You can see what it looked like before it was fleshed out though here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOatQjJobs that may or may not be useful since you are building using a different technique.
Also, be careful with that cap technique. Plastic mesh might seem like a good idea at first. The problem is it likes to warp. Once it gets warped or accidentally sat you cannot exactly fix it. It's why I stopped using it. I got tired of with trial runs you would do everything perfect but the moment you would try to do things like adjust a mouth, or apply material over it it would warp and things would end up crooked. So be sure to be gentle with it, it's not as tough as it might seem.
I'm not exactly sure what the point of your post was. "I don't know what you're trying to do here, so I'll just link pictures and give advice on unrelated subjects". Um, sure.
The only plastic mesh used here is on the skull cap and cheek panels. I suppose you'd have to properly look at it to get it, but even if something should warp or snap, it's going to take a whole 5 minutes to repair it. I'm not worried about it.
The only plastic mesh used here is on the skull cap and cheek panels. I suppose you'd have to properly look at it to get it, but even if something should warp or snap, it's going to take a whole 5 minutes to repair it. I'm not worried about it.
They were basic things to think about when attempting a dragon head or doing one, so you end up avoiding the most common mistakes. I probably could have structured the post better but oh well, it was late. The point is though that what you have right now is looking like a bird head. I'm sorry if I am being blunt. Then again it might have something to do with the lighting. Next time you might take the picture with better lighting because it makes it harder to see the exact details of the snout.
Your description gave off the vibe that you were not looking to make it look avian, and that you might re-do it again. What I was doing is making suggestion if you do a version 3. Again I don't know what the original concept art looked like but it has the "Beaked" look I can make a suggestion so you don't end up with a bird looking head.
I linked you to the fossil head of a dinosaur that had a beaked snout. What it shows is the tip of the snout with a beak but the rest of it does not. So what you could do is modify the snout next time so that snout follows either a carnivore dinosaur archetype or the British archetype that has a more horse-like approach, and have the tip as a beak made out of the material in version 2.
As for the mesh, I'm just pointing out that plastic mesh is not as durable as it would first appear. If you end up with one minor bend in the material it warps the entire head. That is why after working with it multiple times in trial I stopped and went on over to using a balaclava with foam. Yes there is that issue of getting it to fit but there is a way to get around that dealing with how you do the cranium part of the head so that it is bowl-like. I linked you to my own head which was based off of a eastern dragon archetype and that incorporated that bowl like cranium which allows the hood material to stretch as the head goes in. It works wonderfully when trying to a draconian head because it's easier to get that basic shape you need. Often times when people do a Balaclava head they make it to fit a dummy but that does not take into consideration a real head which will need the top part to stretch a bit to fit. Then again I've had a customer who said something did not fit but he did not understand how this style head is supposed to be put on once he understood that the head fit because he put it on correctly.
Take from that what you will I'm just trying to make suggestions because I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.
Your description gave off the vibe that you were not looking to make it look avian, and that you might re-do it again. What I was doing is making suggestion if you do a version 3. Again I don't know what the original concept art looked like but it has the "Beaked" look I can make a suggestion so you don't end up with a bird looking head.
I linked you to the fossil head of a dinosaur that had a beaked snout. What it shows is the tip of the snout with a beak but the rest of it does not. So what you could do is modify the snout next time so that snout follows either a carnivore dinosaur archetype or the British archetype that has a more horse-like approach, and have the tip as a beak made out of the material in version 2.
As for the mesh, I'm just pointing out that plastic mesh is not as durable as it would first appear. If you end up with one minor bend in the material it warps the entire head. That is why after working with it multiple times in trial I stopped and went on over to using a balaclava with foam. Yes there is that issue of getting it to fit but there is a way to get around that dealing with how you do the cranium part of the head so that it is bowl-like. I linked you to my own head which was based off of a eastern dragon archetype and that incorporated that bowl like cranium which allows the hood material to stretch as the head goes in. It works wonderfully when trying to a draconian head because it's easier to get that basic shape you need. Often times when people do a Balaclava head they make it to fit a dummy but that does not take into consideration a real head which will need the top part to stretch a bit to fit. Then again I've had a customer who said something did not fit but he did not understand how this style head is supposed to be put on once he understood that the head fit because he put it on correctly.
Take from that what you will I'm just trying to make suggestions because I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.
Keep in mind that some dragons [i]are [/i ]birdlike, so I'm wondering why this should be seen as a common mistake. I suppose you're referring more to when people make the wrong kind of animal for the head base and for one reason or another end up furring it anyway?
As previously mentioned, this should have ultimately ended up looking like Nephis, as linked above (and it still might, if I add a beak and give it more of a pronounced 'scoop' on the muzzle where it becomes the forehead), but he agreed with me that as it stands it works well as a bird, and he wants me to recreate Sakaika's head (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1861893/) when I build his. Sakaika's head was made differently though, but I'll just do that over again while swapping out most of the mesh for more of that wetsuit-like quilting foam I have that works wonders. I'm liking this new jaw technique (hybrid of foam-balaclava and hunged mesh) a lot though, so I don't think I'll stop working with plastic mesh unless/until it proves itself otherwise. The way I'm using it for this particular head is just to provide a cap base that'll hold up on its own during construction (I can only use manikin heads for things made to fit me)
Another friend has expressed interest in this head now, saying it will work well for his own dragon with some light corrections, but would do nicely for his raptor (dinosaur) as it is.
The first WIP head I uploaded yesterday will just end up being sold as a prebuilt on Furbid/Furbuy after I fix it up and finish it. I don't think I'll even bother with concept art for that one. I never work with it, unless I have to closely copy a character I'm not familiar with.
As previously mentioned, this should have ultimately ended up looking like Nephis, as linked above (and it still might, if I add a beak and give it more of a pronounced 'scoop' on the muzzle where it becomes the forehead), but he agreed with me that as it stands it works well as a bird, and he wants me to recreate Sakaika's head (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1861893/) when I build his. Sakaika's head was made differently though, but I'll just do that over again while swapping out most of the mesh for more of that wetsuit-like quilting foam I have that works wonders. I'm liking this new jaw technique (hybrid of foam-balaclava and hunged mesh) a lot though, so I don't think I'll stop working with plastic mesh unless/until it proves itself otherwise. The way I'm using it for this particular head is just to provide a cap base that'll hold up on its own during construction (I can only use manikin heads for things made to fit me)
Another friend has expressed interest in this head now, saying it will work well for his own dragon with some light corrections, but would do nicely for his raptor (dinosaur) as it is.
The first WIP head I uploaded yesterday will just end up being sold as a prebuilt on Furbid/Furbuy after I fix it up and finish it. I don't think I'll even bother with concept art for that one. I never work with it, unless I have to closely copy a character I'm not familiar with.
Some dragons are bird-like but if you are not careful how you treat those bird-like qualities it comes out as not a dragon. I'm noting going to get into because I'm a nut when it comes to paying attention the details of a dragon especially if you name it after a specific archetype. There are at least three common archetypes for the western dragon, and several more for the eastern variety. This is also a Indian version, that looks very snake-like but with a very bird-like look as well.
If someone is going to tag or call it "Western Dragon" to me that means they are looking to base it off of the archetype. So there are several ways to go with what you reference when it comes to bringing it to life. Many artists make the mistake when they try to make a beaked Western Dragon, they make the entire snout beaked. Most of the time it just not come out right. To classify as a westie in cannot have a full beak. You are better off calling it just a dragon if that.
So it is being based on the black one with the tip of the top and bottom muzzle with that hardened carapace? There really is no avian influence there with the head that I can see. The tip of the snout is like a hardened carapace, like what you saw with the first picture I linked. So if that is what you are going for, and again this is just personal opinion, stay away from making avian qualities.
You know if you toughen up the jaw attachment if you try a WIP 3, and make the snout more stable than what is usual for a foam base you could buy some Ultra-light Sculpty and sculpt the two hardened carapace like things out of that. Then when you get done you can attach that over the tip of the upper and button snout. That stuff is really really light and once you bake it in the oven it is easy to paint. You would only have to toughen or tighten the elastic just a little bit even if that.
If someone is going to tag or call it "Western Dragon" to me that means they are looking to base it off of the archetype. So there are several ways to go with what you reference when it comes to bringing it to life. Many artists make the mistake when they try to make a beaked Western Dragon, they make the entire snout beaked. Most of the time it just not come out right. To classify as a westie in cannot have a full beak. You are better off calling it just a dragon if that.
So it is being based on the black one with the tip of the top and bottom muzzle with that hardened carapace? There really is no avian influence there with the head that I can see. The tip of the snout is like a hardened carapace, like what you saw with the first picture I linked. So if that is what you are going for, and again this is just personal opinion, stay away from making avian qualities.
You know if you toughen up the jaw attachment if you try a WIP 3, and make the snout more stable than what is usual for a foam base you could buy some Ultra-light Sculpty and sculpt the two hardened carapace like things out of that. Then when you get done you can attach that over the tip of the upper and button snout. That stuff is really really light and once you bake it in the oven it is easy to paint. You would only have to toughen or tighten the elastic just a little bit even if that.
Oh, you probably think the black part is ALL beak. It's not-- I was just using a different type of foam for the muzzle and beak than on the rest of the head (in the end, the "furring" pattern wasn't going to follow the head's current color pattern). Ultimately, I would have been adding a second layer of rubberized foam (or similar) over the tip of the snout to make a beak like the dragon here's: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1661917/. I did something similar for http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1861893/ and Nephis says he wants me to do it again for his. Just look at the progression on this scary little thing http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1854461/ (same dragon as above, about 75% done at the time of the picture), lulz. I don't his design looks like anything but a western dragon. Definitely not a serpent or a hydra. At this stage, this head really could be anything.
I'm staying away from Sculpty/etc for the beak and horns again on this one. Sakaika's horns are stuffed but her fins cover all the seams except the ones on her largest horns, so it's not such a big deal. Hard horns and a beak would definitely look cool, but I'm concerned about the practicality of it. They'd have no bend compared to fabric ones. Sakaika, like Nephis, has a lot of spikes on pressure points so the stuffed horns means we can roll around, get pounced on, mock-fight and basically do whatever we want (even sleep in the damn things) without shattering anything. And I've been crushing her head into a travel box since January when she was built, and so far her worst problems have been popped seams on her right paw along the wrist (who knows...) and a stitch came loose on one of her cheek fins. Must be all those coat hangers in there :P
Anyway, input is appreciated. I'm also curious to see how (and who!) this one will end up.
I'm staying away from Sculpty/etc for the beak and horns again on this one. Sakaika's horns are stuffed but her fins cover all the seams except the ones on her largest horns, so it's not such a big deal. Hard horns and a beak would definitely look cool, but I'm concerned about the practicality of it. They'd have no bend compared to fabric ones. Sakaika, like Nephis, has a lot of spikes on pressure points so the stuffed horns means we can roll around, get pounced on, mock-fight and basically do whatever we want (even sleep in the damn things) without shattering anything. And I've been crushing her head into a travel box since January when she was built, and so far her worst problems have been popped seams on her right paw along the wrist (who knows...) and a stitch came loose on one of her cheek fins. Must be all those coat hangers in there :P
Anyway, input is appreciated. I'm also curious to see how (and who!) this one will end up.
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