Seems an awesome idea =D though i'm curious about it:

will it be a simple adventure rpg (adventures in a home,like rugrats) or it'll be like an adventure on the dragons age?

as for the thoughs:
1 - you mean all abilities and powers and weapons" the characters can have,right?
2- i saw a pic of an interesting element... were the diaper is the health bar. after take some hits, it became wet, and when nearly in 0, it gets poopy. And the diaper state really could affect the wearer, like less speed, less focus,these things.

Oopsie I messed up my reply please look below this...

I was hoping to make it a fairly simple tabletop RPG, but I'd like to give it a fairly robust engine so that it can, potentially be expanded with supplementary works if desired.

Sort of. In my initial discussion with Tacki, I said I didn't want to use d20, despite the OGL, because I wasn't sure how classes and races would work in the world we're building, but at the same time, a point-buy system would be far more complex to implement. Alternately, though, perhaps we could use a system of lenses or templates to provide some measure of customization without having to build a system to facilitate a la carte character generation.

What I was thinking of was somewhat simpler - more like food or rest in a more conventional RPG. For example; let's say Gus and Kaffre are adventuring. Normally, each cub goes through 3 diapers a day, but Gus only has 5 remaining and they still have a few days before they reach the nearest town so he decides to only change himself once per day and so suffers a status ailment "Full Diaper". Kaffre has no shortage of diapers, but during an encounter is subject to a "wet" spell. Now he has to either use a fourth diaper or else endure the "Wet" condition until such time as he can change himself.

kinda understood^^ don't know a lot of table rpgs,so not sure what OGL means, but kinda understood the classes are a bit hard to work^^'

So, it's more an adventure world with babyfurs than just a regular day on someone's house(so no rugrats). Yups, i though about these conditions. But exactly what could make them use their diapers? just time, a spell(that they or someone use against them) or when they take a hit?

OGL refers to the "Open Gaming License" which allows anyone to use the d20 system in their published RPG without the need to pay royalties of any kind to WotC (or Paizo). It's a compelling inducement, but as I said, I'm not sure it'll work for this project.

Mostly, ideally I'd like the game to facilitate domestic scenes as well which is actually one of my reasons for rejecting a class/level based systems. As for the diapers question, the answer is, potentially, all of the above. Characters have to expend a certain number of diapers each day regardless, but certain attacks and spells can force their use as well.

I see. well, it's a super great idea, and can't wait to see more of it, or help to make it became true =D

Thanks. Do post back here if you come up with any suggestions! *hugs*

So lets assume that we're creating a standard, high fantasy medieval type setting with swords and sorcery for the time being. I imagine we could have future supplements with alternate setting at a later date. Ironically, I think a "Rugrats" style setting would be the hardest setting to implement since it strays so far from a typical tabletop RPG. With that in mind, I don't think we should rule out classes as they could be changed depending on the setting with just a bit of extra work. Although I think I'd be more intrigued with a classless system anyway... sorry for being contradictory in advance! I'm trying to discipline my brain into thinking what the majority of players would want in a game like this, not specifically what *I* would want.

I wonder if it would be more ideal to make the game as simple as possible. Are we making this game for Tabletop Roleplaying Gamers that happen to be babyfurs or are we making a game for the babyfur community as a whole who may or may not have any experience with tabletop RPGs but like the idea of a structured babyfur roleplaying system? I played a game called "Lasers and Feelings." It was the simplest RPG I ever played and it only required one or two D6s per player. It was fun, but was very narrative and closer to a standard online chat rpg.

Well, I haven't necessarily ruled out a class/level system I'm just not sure how I'd implement it - something that may change once we get some more work done on our setting. As for your second question, I'm not really sure. At present I'd probably define it as a vanity project, but I would like to make it as accessible as we can. That said, however, I'm not really a fan of narrative-based or diceless systems and while I would, eventually, like to develop diceless rules to facilitate message board play, at present I want to keep the rules as light as I can while still giving the GM and players access to the tools they need to explore the babyfur world.

According to the Kobold's Guides, there are two ways to design a game:
1. start with a concept and then develop rules to work with it.
2. start with a set of rules and then develop a setting for it.

In our case, I think we're pretty firmly in group 1. So the first thing to do, I suppose, is to define the realm our babyfurs will live in so that we can build our rules set to promote interaction with that world. There's obviously a lot of work to do, but the way I see it there are a few very big questions that we need answers to right out of the gate:
1. Are there any grownups in our world? Will the babyfurs grow and age?
2. What sorts of dangers are there? How deadly is combat?
3. Does magic exist? Psionics? Other supernatural abilities?
4. What's the effective technological level? Can the babyfurs maintain it themselves?
5. How is babyfur society organized?

I think that should be enough for us to start thinking about the kind of rules we'll need.

I agree with you, we are definitely in group 1. As far as my thoughts are concerned about the questions you posted...

1. I feel that if babyfurs are really adventuring, they're doing it because there aren't any adults around to do it. Unless the culture of the world we set the game in is perfectly okay with letting their kids step out the door unsupervised and un-potty-trained. Maybe some calamity happened and there aren't any adults around or there are very few left that the kids need to step up and run the world. I always liked the idea of babyfur only worlds that once had adults but no longer do. The cubs worship them as gods who disappeared mysteriously, leaving them to fend for themselves. Maybe all the adults left are super powerful magic users that made the world the way it is for some strange reason. The game could work in an adult controlled world, but I think the most logical choice is a world where there are very few adults or none. If we go with no adults then the babyfurs should probably not age. If they do age, it should be very slowly.

2. I think the game itself could scale between "comic-mischief" and mature content depending on the whims of the game master. Officially, most of the RPG groups I've been a part of joke and act silly in even the most serious of games. Lets face it, a babyfur RPG is a pretty silly idea and I think it should lean towards the light-hearted comic mischief spectrum of the action and danger table. I think it could be a little too much for people if their toddler aged characters suffer horrible injuries. I feel that characters should suffer from some sort of KO effect when whatever life resource they have drops to zero. But I don't think they should die. Maybe the fiendish wizard imprisons them in his dungeon or the eight foot tall baby doll dresses up it's hapless victims in some sort of horribly sissy attire. In both situations the players will be hindered by the consequences of losing a combat or falling into a trap, but they'll still be allowed to continue playing their characters. I'd imagine that some players will create their fursonas when playing the game and would be quite unhappy if their characters were outright killed.

(Still, I could see deadly consequences in combat also being a part of the setting. There certainly are deadly consequences in "Children of Maeria.")

3. If this is a high fantasy setting, then definitely there should definitely be magic. Psionics, lycanthropy etc. are perfectly fine as well. At the very least, I'm sure we could come up with some interesting babyfur-themed schools of magic. I think high fantasy fits in well with a babyfur RPG. I could also see a "high technology" setting as well.

4. I predict that people will roleplay their characters as juvenile minded adults. They do adorable kid things, but the have the seriousness and intelligence to at least maintain a society. They will need to if there are no adults. I base this prediction on the way people roleplay here in general. A lot of the times, you'll find babyfurs doing very mature things for their age, playing videogames, practicing with swords (lightsabers), playing with paintball guns and such. I think a lot of this hinges on whether or not there are adults in this world.

5. Adventurers are typically supposed to be rare. I imagine that there would be a lot of cubs who stay at home and maintain the towns and hamlets. Someone has to make the diapers after all.

Overall, I'll go with whatever you think is best Kaffre. We could try and put some of the decisions to a poll.

1. Yeah, I too like the idea of an all cub world. The bit about grownups as deities, however, is an interesting twist. Naturally, if this is the state of our world, however, it raises two obvious questions: how did it get that way, and where do new babyfurs come from? One thought I've come up with is that, perhaps, babyfurs who die are somehow reincarnated?

2. Well, "Deadly" was something of a figure of speech in this context. I agree that most encounters (especially between cubs) oughtn't carry the potential for death, but I think we need someway to quantify the effects of 'damage' maybe using a dual track of the sort utilized in HERO or ShadowRun? You do make a good point about Maeria, however. Unfortunately, however, as much as I'm loath to admit it, I don't remember enough about your comic to remember how dangerous it was.

3. I suppose magic is one of the staples of high fantasy and whatever mechanic we settle on could, perhaps, be pressed into other use or else introduced as supplemental material.

4. Agreed. Plus, if the babyfurs don't age they wound presumably have skill and intellect levels closer to those of an adult. One of the main reasons I ask is to provide a sort of mental model of what RL era the world should resemble...

5. Agreed. I was referring more the organization of their society as a whole. Whether they use a feudal system, bureaucratic model, tribal structure, parliamentary rule, soviets, millets, etc.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think a poll could be a good idea! Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure how to make one...

1. You could go with a reincarnation mechanic for cubs who are killed. Or maybe the "universe" creates a few cubs at special places every few weeks or so. These newborns are taken in by the more "senior" babyfurs and raised. There may have to be perma death if that were the case to prevent overpopulation. Unless the world is so massive and the population currently is so small that it will take centuries before it becomes a problem. I personally won't mind babyfur death. I think the blow will be softened for our broken hearted players if they eventual reincarnate.

2. Forgive me if this comes off like something that would be in a silly video game, but what if the world's physics and/or the strange magical energies that permeate in it cause lethal attacks to inflict damage in a spiritual sense as opposed to causing physical injury. An arbitrary stat (like a person's willpower) determines how much spiritual damage they can sustain before they are dealt a mortal blow and vanish or something. Maybe the monsters are all outsiders that do this sort of damage to denizens in the game world. Essentially, we can have character death without excessive gore.

I played my cards close to my chest with CoM, so I may not have explained everything I thought I explained. I came up with this whole spirit energy idea with CoM (mostly in order to avoid gruesome deaths) where the demons were creatures from another dimension that were attracted to the babyfur's world because of some imperceptible "energy" within each and every cub. They draw it out of subdued bodies and "digest" it over the course of 8-12 hours. The babyfurs created technology that allows them to take stolen "energy" out of subdued demons, identify who it belongs to and "put it back inside them." If done within the 8-12 hour mark the cub will be rattled and may suffer from nightmares from now on but will otherwise be fine. If done beyond that, then the cub will essentially go mad, resulting in the neccessity of a memory wipe. If you can't find a body's "soul energy" before the demon who stole it returns to the nether then you have a dead cub. Physical traumas, diseases and such still will kill a cub, but medical science in my world was so advanced that you could patch up any injury without a problem if you tend to it quickly enough. You can tell I've been thinking about my defunct comic series a bit too much!

I had intended to do some journals telling readers about all these weird nuances in my story if I had kept up with my work and produced some pages on a regular basis but alas, I let myself get distracted and let my laziness get the better of me. =P

But yeah, there's my thought process on that.

3. I'll put magic in the "probably" section.

4. *nods* I think we should tentatively lean towards a high fantasy setting. Almost everyone loves swords and sorcery.

5. I could see a world much like our own in medieval times. Perhaps most of civilization is ruled by kings and queens (princes and princesses) but perhaps there are a few republics here and there (like the Republic of Venice in the middle ages) and some tribal groups in some isolated places. Perhaps the main setting would be a city that is run by a republic. Something the players would feel compelled to defend.

I hope I'm being some help here. This whole project has grabbed my interest quite firmly!

1. Maybe both? Having new cubs generate spontaneously (like fish were believed to do in the medieval mindset) could help reinforce "Mother" as a religious concept in the babyfur world, but is ultimately tangential when it comes to the lack of grownups in the world and why the babyfurs won't be aging much over the course of their adventures.

2. The idea that attacks drain the cub's spirit energy is an interesting one. Possibly a Life or Soul stat? However, even if we do decide that the monsters merely drain cubs' spiritual essence, there's still the possibility of injury from more mundane sources (falls, fire, drowning, etc). Again, I like the concept, at least for monsters. And if we can discourage cubs from fighting each other, we can perhaps have other potential sources of injury do characteristic damage which requires some form of healing?

3. Well, I think the world probably requires magic of some kind to function. I'm just now sure quite yet how the cubs will access it. I suspect it will clarify somewhat once the world we're building starts of coalesce.

4. Agreed. I'm not quite sure what I was trying to ask for this :oops:

5. Yeah, I suppose the world could be big enough to integrate 'all of the above' if we were so inclined. There will, however, need to be a core setting and I think you're right, a small, independent city-state would probably be best.

Incidentally, about "Mother", were the cubs in your world monotheists? I was thinking about possibly including "Father" as well, but am not quite sure what each deities respective spheres of influence ought to be. Do you have any suggestions?

Also, you're being very helpful. It's difficult to talk through these kind of things by yourself and I really like most of your suggestions thus far! *hugs*

1. Both would work, variety is the spice of life after all.

2.We could also go with a spirit draining concept on normally "mundane" occurrences too. In this case, something about the universe in general creates this phenomena. This would allow for cub vs. cub action. Grisly images of broken bones and blood dripping down the sides of faces would not be an issue either. Get hit by club? Lose spirit energy. Get hit by sword? Lose spirit energy. Set on fire? Lose spirit energy. Fall down a pit? Lose spirit energy etc.

I'm not really set on this idea, it's just a potential alternative we could explore. Life or Soul stat would be cool. Maybe that's what define babyfurs and other "good" creatures in this world?

*Cubs in Maeria were monotheists. They didn't really use the word god/goddess when referring to her, but she was held in similar esteem. To the citizens in general, she literally was "mom" for all intents and purposes. She was responsible for the world becoming what it was and originally, she was just a mundane, mortal scientist. Technology allowed her to basically become immortal so she could have time to set up this world so it could basically be run by it's denizens without adult supervision. Eventually, she mysteriously disappeared and legends replaced facts. Add a couple hundred years and bam, you've got a religion.

I had planned for other religions for cultures that split off from the main babyfur group. There were some key differences but conveniently, they all had the same taboos about allowing someone to age physically beyond 5 years old.

I could go on and on about all the back story I had planned in order to justify the quirkiness of the world of Maeria. Really, the whole reason I did the comic in the first place was to sneakily trick people into learning about the Napoleonic Wars while simultaneously giving me an excuse to draw cute little soldiers in ostentatious uniforms. =P

1. Sounds good to start.

2. Hmm I guess that could work. I'm not quite sure how to justify it in setting. Possibly a part of the same enchantment that prevents the babyfurs from ageing?

* Interesting. The reason I ask is that I was trying to come up with potential classes/templates and was trying to work out how our cleric analogue might work. Maybe just use a healer/medic type instead?

2. We could make all damage normally affect babyfurs like in other tabletop rpgs as well. I don't have a favorite choice, just coming up with options.

*Clerics could generically worship "the light" if need be. Maybe we can do a background system like Dark Heresy Second Edition?

Alright, I think we've probably got enough background now that we can start thinking in terms of mechanics.

First thing, in my mind, is to decide what sorts of stats we'll need. So far, I think we've agreed on the need for: Spirit. I don't know exactly what else we'll need. At present, my thoughts are: Strength, Dexterity, Intellect, and Cuteness. Though I feel we may need to tinker with the names. Can you think of anything I've missed or that seems redundant?

I was brainstorming some ideas for attributes for the past few days and I think we might be on the same page regarding the stats. I was thinking Body (strength and constitution), maybe Coordination (dexterity), Brightness (Intelligence and Wisdom) and Cuteness (charisma). I was happy to see that we both agreed on labeling our charisma stat as cuteness. Based on our discussion we may want a separate "soul" stat. We could also make Soul the average of both body and brightness perhaps?

Well, I'm good with those so far. I suspect we may need to add others as we flesh out the system.

I'm not entirely sure what role Constitution will play if we're having attacks drain Energy, but I do think 'Body' is more appropriate than Strength given the nature of the genre. I guess the next step is to set upon a scale for the attributes and a method for generating them...

I'm not sure either, I was thinking it would be good for a physical stat to play some importance because otherwise the mages would have the most hit points. This would be odd considering they usually get to fling spells at a safe distance whereas fighters have to get close in order to contribute to a fight, generally speaking.

It made sense in my head. =P

Good point.

One solution would be to have characters cast from Spirit. That way they'd effectively lose 'hit points' whether they're hit or not, making them more dependent on front-line combatants. It would kind of force us into a spell point system though...

Your thoughts?

I don't mind math, or spell points. That would balance things a bit. Maybe "Body" would grant you Damage Reduction to physical damage?

That's could work. Alternately, we could have armor reduce the damage from blows though that would only work if we decide to prohibit casters from wearing armor. Something we haven't discussed yet, but I do tend to favour damage reduction to represent the effects of armor than having it increase the difficulty of hitting (that's what shields and parrying are for)

Also, given any thought to what sorts of character types we want to include (classes etc)?

We should make provisions for the basic four in same shape or fashion. Fighter, Thief, Mage, Cleric. We should not hesitate to take our own spin on it. I like DR too, but sometimes it can get obnoxious when someone gets so much damage reduction that basic monsters no longer do enough damage to hurt the player anymore. Careful design should alleviate this problem however.

I think we should also make provisions for toddlers and "big kids." By big kids, I mean those that are basically just out of diapers. That could come with the benefits of no longer needing to worry about the negative effects of diapers but at the same time, should come with the responsibility of keeping your pants dry and clean in a world that is trying to make you do the opposite. We might want to think about pre-toddler aged groups as well, though it might be inadvisable to start a life of adventure before you master the basics of walking! Perhaps this could fit into our "race/species" section. We should probably not specifically define species stats since there are so many critters that people like to play.

Back to classes, I like a classless system better than "normal" systems. Maybe there's a way we can break all the basic abilities into pieces that players buy individually in order to customize their character to their liking? Prerequisites for these pieces should guide people into creating characters that are similar to basic classes, but still allow the ability for clever people to create cross-class types.

Yes, DR/Soak mechanics can be problematic, but I think we can probably manage to make it work via careful design. At worst, we could simply rule that each successful attack always results in the target losing at least 1 pt Spirit regardless of DR.

I had a similar concept to allow for potty-training characters. Basically, the character could make a roll each day to avoid using any diapers, but if he failed, the consequences would be worse. Alternately, we could, perhaps, integrate a very basic advantage/disadvantage system to allow players to customize things a bit.

The four basic classes are a good place to start, but I'm still having hard time with visualizing how clerics and thieves ought to work. Do you have any suggestions?

Hmmm... not sure if it helps, but i got some suggestions for theives. i don't know a lot about them on rpgs, but suggesting by their names...

They could have a bit more of speed, even if in diapers, and they can roll from some time, trying to steal something from the opponent. could be usefull to get diapers if they're are running low. They could have some weapons that aren't good as the fighter's, that could help on his speed "boost" even if id doesn't deal a big damage.

Hmmm... gotta ask as a first travel rpg'er... would it have archers?

A speed/agility boost does seem like a good ability for our game's thief analogues. What I was more concerned with, however, was my own difficulty in visualizing the class and their role within the party.

As for archers, my answer is: probably. Of course, they might just wind up being 'fighters' who utilize the bow as their weapon of choice as opposed to a separate class. but we really won't know until we get into more depth with the combat system.

Uh huhs. For now, how are the roles of the classes? since i don't know a lot about it, could be good see some examples to help bringing ideas up.

And yups.the way to get some diversity with the classes seems interesting. Like the fighter being able to fight with regular clubs,axes, swords, bows... and the Mage could focus on attack or defense(boost atk or def skills or use attacking or healing spells/potions)

Well, the bog standard classes for fantasy RPGs are those featured in the earliest iterations Dungeons & Dragons: Fighter, Cleric, Thief, and Wizard.

Fighters, well fight. They use various sorts of weapons and armour to overcome their foes.
Clerics use magic that heals, bolsters, and protects others.
Thieves have specialized skills that let them sneak, ambush enemies, scale walls, and disarm traps.
Wizards wield various forms of offensive and utility magics.

The earliest games had Elf, Dwarf, and Hobbit (which later become 'races') and subsequent additions added other classes such as: Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, Druid, Monk Assassin, Bard, Illusionist, and Sorcerer and so on, but for now we're just focusing on the four iconic roles since we're still a bit ambivalent about using a class/level system...

I see. indeed, the thieves would just be helpfull to the group if there are some dangers during the party's adventure, like ambushes, or if they fal in traps, or get caught.

Well, i have some interesting ideas i've got from playing Tibia - things that they have there, and things that i think they should but don't have- Most are creatures, story ideas, quests, puzzles. I might be a lot more helper when get on this stage

Well, you're being quite helpful now, but I shall be sure to ask you for input when we get to campaign design!

alrighty =) would like to keep helping ya there for now, though not sure if could be helpfull for this part^^' just let me know when i can help =D

Scouts could still be useful and would fall within the role of the thief. Maybe they can have some nifty dirty cheater tricks they can pull on the enemy. Or maybe they can be more of a dedicated ranged class. If we have gods, we can easily have healing clerics. If magic exists I don't see why some form of divine magic could exist as well. Even if we don't want divine magic, we could still go with "healing" magic.

Ideally, we could have a number of feats and/or talents players can pick up. These feats/talents could be designed with the four core classes in mind. Prerequisites should be there and when you try to pick up magic, there might be some sacrifices you have to make if you really want to delve deeply into it. Maybe magic feats take a point of your spirit away or something along those lines.

*couldn't

*oops, look down please*

True enough. I guess it will ultimately depend upon if/how we implement classes and, correspondingly, how we decide to include any skills or feats into the system. I'm personally not much a fan of feats, but have been thinking about using some types of system to allow players to add various features to their character because, the more I think about it, I don't think we'll be able to provide a full compliment of babyfur races otherwise.

As for the Clerics, I'm of three minds: 1. I do rather like the idea of 'Mother' as a deity in the babyfur world, but at the same time I'm not really sure how we'll distinguish between white/black magic or even if we want to do so at all. I guess we're still really early in the design process... *embarrassed*

The way I see it, we either have classes and no feats, or no classes and only feats. When I say feats, I use that word interchangeably with talents, advantages, disadvantages and whatever other character altering rule word we can think of. I think a feat/talent system would be more flexible than a class system. I also think we could design them in such a way as to combine both advantages and disadvantages in each feat. This would permanently alter your character and make it harder to be a jack of all trades. I would like to see a "Red Mage" type to borrow Final Fantasy vernacular, but such a talent makeup should come with extreme disadvantages.

Regarding divine and black magic. Maybe Divine magic comes from our loving matronly entity and black magic comes from the destructive force infused within the "monsters" that roam the countryside? Black magic wielders are babyfurs who have somehow been able to tap into that energy.

I'm not sure it's as cut and dried as that. I feel we could probably accommodate both a barebones class system and some sort of point-buy system so that players can further customize their babyfur characters. I say this, in part, because I think classes will make character advancement easier, but again I'm not married to the idea.

It's an interesting idea about the black mages, however. Especially if we decide to make the monsters extradimensional as they were Maeria, allowing wizards to tap into the power of their home dimension could work very well.

You're right about the class/feats topic. I meant to include something about being able to do both if necessary but it managed to slip my mind during my rant. =P

I feel like we've got a general idea about the setting and that we should start thinking about mechanics. Specifically what dice we want to use. I was thinking about an idea utilizing a d6 dice pool system on skill tests and to hit rolls but then got hung up on how to do damage. Also, I'm not sure if we would want to limit ourselves to only d6s. By that I mean, will people by receptive to using a single die type, or will they want to use multiple kinds of dice? I think it would be kind of fun to use a d6 system personally.

Let me show you an example of what I had in mind...

Lets say someone has a Dex stat of 3 (a stat of 1-5 would be the range stats could fall under). To hit, they would get to roll 3d6s and take the highest result. You had mentioned something about a contested rolls system earlier? Let's say the dex attack one player was making was opposed by the dex stat of the monster, which is also 3. The attacker rolls 6, 4 and 1 and naturally takes the 6. The defending monster rolls 6, 2 and 3 and also takes a 6. Most games usually suggest that ties are given to the attacker. so the player's roll would hit the monster. If the player had rolled a 5 instead of a 6 then the monster's 6 would beat the player's 5 and the monster would avoid the damage.

Status effects could lower your dice pool, maybe to a minimum of "1." I could see levels of "critical diaper damage" (for lack of a better term) reducing a character's dice pool by increments corresponding to the CDD they are experiencing. Using effort could be an option, sacrificing dice from your dice pool to add a temporary (+1) to your highest roll. Instead of rolling 3d6, you could roll 2d6 and add +1 to your highest roll, potentially getting you a 7.

Do you have any preferences on our dice system? Am I thinking about this too early?

Well, I don't necessarily think you're too early, I just haven't really given the matter too much thought myself except in the most general of terms. I suppose a dice pool system could work for conflict resolution (though what you're describing is more like a 'roll and keep' system like 7th Sea or Legend of Five Rings. Unfortunately, I don't remember enough about how combat work in those systems to suggest a solution. Also, I actively dislike how combat is handled in the dice pool systems I am familiar with (WoD and Shadowrun) so I'm reluctant to use them as a model.

My own original plan was for us to utilize a Wounding system similar to that used in Deadlands or Ars Magica, but our decision to use a hit point model scuttled that idea rather quickly. I would note, however, that most 'roll and keep' systems have an exploding dice mechanic so that, for example, both characters in the situation you described would get to roll their 6s again and add the new result to six (rolling again on another 6 and so on).

I don't think we're starting thoughts on mechanics too early (I was about to suggest the same), but I do think, perhaps, combat isn't the best place to start. Maybe try and get an idea about what characters might look like first? Obviously, character generation will have to be one of the last things we write, but I think actually seeing everything written out on a sheet would help us put things in more perspective. I'll write a few up later today and post them here for discussion.

Name: Straty
Race: Dragon
Class: Warrior
Body: 3 Coordination: 4 Brightness: 3 Cute: 3 Soul: 4
Energy: 14
Positive Qualities: Flutter, Smoke.
Negative Qualities: Ambitious.
Skills: Sword, Musket, Logistics, Tactics, History.
Spells: None.
Equipment: Ten diapers, diaper changing kit, three days' rations, musket, 12 rounds of ammunition, dress sword, fancy hat.

Name: Eezee
Race: Rodent
Class: Rogue
Body: 3 Coordination: 4 Brightness: 4 Cute: 3 Soul: 3
Energy: 12
Positive Qualities: Clever, Potty-Trained.
Negative Qualities: Glasses, Stubborn.
Skills: Mechanics, Sneak, Climb, Slingshot, Jury-Rig.
Spells: None.
Equipment: Three pull-ups, three days' rations, slingshot, 6 rounds of ammunition, tool kit, glasses.

Name: Erfak
Race: Feline
Class: Mage
Body: 3 Coordination: 3 Brightness: 3 Cute: 4 Soul: 4
Energy: 14
Positive Qualities: Pounce.
Negative Qualities: Shy, Ticklish.
Skills: Sneak, Climb, Arcane Lore, Staff, Fib.
Spells: Nap, Wet, Pacify, Sissy.
Equipment: Ten diapers, diaper changing kit, three days' rations, staff.

Name: JM
Race: Ursine
Class: Cleric (Mother)
Body: 4 Coordination: 3 Brightness: 3 Cute: 3 Soul: 4
Energy: 16
Positive Qualities: Hug.
Negative Qualities: Deep Sleeper.
Skills: Heal, Club, Sneak, Grapple, Religion.
Spells: Kiss, Moo, Swat, Change.
Equipment: Ten diapers, diaper changing kit, three days' rations, club, holy symbol.

Actually, I like where you're going with this. I'm assuming you want to go with the five stats presented here and I'm totally happy with them. I like that you've already got some skills hammered out. They are themed quite well. I can shelve the dice pool system for the time being. I had some ideas for non-combat mechanics involving it but I don't need to clutter the table with them at the moment. Especially if you dislike them. Definitely want to go with the negative qualities/positive qualities aspect, you've presented here. I assume that they are worth different amounts of "points" since Erfak and JM have two negative qualities and only one positive quality. They also seem good for handling personality quirks and racial traits.

We still don't necessarily have to use an HP model. I'm not familiar with Deadlands and Ars magica so I'm going to have to do some research when I get the chance. I also am only familiar with Shadowrun on Sega Genesis (or whatever it was on) and the new PC games. I didn't know it used a dice pool system. I just remembered I played FATE. Didn't much care for it but I suppose it wasn't the worst thing ever.

Also, it looks like cubs start with baseline attributes at three and then they get to add two points? Seems okay.

Any preference on what kind of dice we want to use?

Also, those characters seem awfully familiar!

While I am fairly happy with the five stats described above, I accept that we may need to add or subtract stats as the game develops. That said, I don't necessarily have a problem with die pool mechanics (especially since what you're describing isn't a straight dice pool), I just don't want to use the (IMO awful) systems used in the World or Darkness or Shadowrun. The characters are meant to serve as examples of what we want our characters to be able to do rather than fully-fleshed out characters so Qualities aren't even remotely balanced, but I suspect that yes we'll need to give them different values.

Well, in both Deadlands and Ars Magica, rather than subtracting from the target's HP or health levels, successful attacks instead inflict wounds that hamper the target's ability to fight leading to a death spiral where the character's combat ability is steadily degraded over the course of a combat. The problem is, that I can't figure how to make it work in a world where 'damage' results from a loss of life energy (actually, poor handling of non-lethal combat is a criticism of both those games).

Three seemed a reasonable 'Average', but I'm still not sure I want to use that scale. I used it here because if fits well with the mechanic you proposed and it seemed like it would be easy to amend if we ultimately decide on a different scale - especially one using less granularity.

I've no real preference for die types, but was originally thinking of using 2d6 *shrugs*

*giggles* Well, it's easier than making up characters de novo! ^^

I gave myself the time to look up some of those other dice pool systems you were telling me about. I was a little shocked with how similar some of them were to the idea I came up with. Shadowrun does seem a little obnoxious. Any game where you have to add up a pile of numbers could slow things down. I felt that only taking the highest number of the pool would make things progress a lot more efficiently. When I was thinking of my system, I had the Space Hulk dice mechanics stand out in my head for some reason. Hand to hand combat in that game works off of rolling piles of d6s and comparing your highest dice to your opponents highest dice.

Kiffin and one of our friends tried to come up with their own roleplaying game a couple years ago. They got pretty far into the alpha testing phase but couldn't quite make it into beta. There's was a d20 based system of some kind that did it's best to be as different from OGL d20 as possible. I remember when they designed the game, they got really hung up on two gameplay mechanics: Attack rolls and skill checks. It seemed like they were changing those mechanics every few weeks!

I feel that if we can settle on a good way to pull off those two objectives, we'll be well on our way to slapping together a pretty respectable Babyfur RPG. I must admit, I'm a bit stuck in the DnD and Pathfinder mindset of skill rolls and attack rolls essentially being the core of the game. Steve Jobs always said never to do what's already been done in a better way, but to create something new and better. Truthfully, I kind of dislike the core d20 mechanic of 1d20 + attribute +skill bonus, because it seems kind of bland. You dump as many points into your core skills and hope they come up a lot. Pretty soon, you only need 5s to hit a DC25. It is effective at telling a story though, and you only have to roll 1 dice.

What did you have in mind with the 2d6 mechanic? I like d6s as they are easy to come by and I think, are the cutest of all the die types. They're the same shape as building blocks after all.

(oops see below)

Yeah there are a lot of interesting systems out there! I will say, in Shadowrun's defence, that adding up successes is much faster than you'd think (at least starting out, once you start rolling 40+ dice as in Exalted, it becomes a serious pain in the ass!) I'm not really familiar with Space Hulk, but will take a look at it and let you know what I think. Incidentally, which of the systems you researched was closest to what you wanted to try?

Sorry to hear that the game was never completed. Still, I suppose it makes sense, combat and skills are the mechanics that have to be the most robust since they're often literally a matter of life and death in-game

Generally speaking while I too enjoy d20 and its derivatives (I'm running PF currently), but agree with your appraisal. That's part of the reason I liked 2d6. It's less swingy than a d20, has a nice bell curve with an easy to remember average (7), and provides a ready mechanic to describe critical successes (box cars) or critical failures (snake eyes), Of course, that's assuming we go with the (Characteristic+Skill+2d6) model which we may not. Speaking of skills, you mentioned having made a list earlier. May I please see it? :)

Oh no, I didn't mean to say I had a list. I just had an idea for a mechanic. Like other games, skill checks are based on your base attributes. Lets say your Coordination is 3. You're trying to use your "swipe" skill to steal a bag of cookies in a crowded room with a lot of noise. You get to roll 3d6 (1 dice for each point in your coordination attribute). The GM secretly assigns a target number. Let's say it's "4" because it's a pretty easy task to swipe something in a crowded, noisy room when no one is actively paying attention to the item. You roll your dice, needing a 4 or higher on one of them. Luckily, you get a 5, 3 and 2. You use your 5 and hope it's enough. The GM tells you it is, so you successfully steal the cookies.

Later, you find yourself in another room with much less people who are slightly more attentive. You see another bag of cookies and decide to go for it. The GM gives you a verbal cue (like "This action looks really challenging. You'll need to really focus!"). This would indicate that the difficulty check is higher than 6, let's say it's 7. You have a skill of +3 in your swipe skill. This means that you'll get to add up to 3 points to your highest die roll. You roll your 3d6 and get a 1, a 2 and a 6. Just to be safe, you decide to add 2 points to your highest roll, getting an 8. The GM tells you that no one seems to have noticed your sneakiness and you get away with it.

Why wouldn't you add 3 points to the roll? I was thinking that we could include a "fatigue" system into the game. My first idea was that your skill points are essentially "MP." You use it and you lose it until you get a chance to rest or find some other means to restore your skill points. This means you have to use good judgement when deciding how much extra effort you're going to put in when using a skill. The whole idea of making skills have limited uses is that you take fatigue and mental strain when you are forced to really focus. I know after a hard day of classes my brain is essentially a pile of jello for a while, and after jogging I'm completely fatigued.

I realize that this could mean multiple number boxes to erase and update a lot. This may not be optimal, but it was my initial idea regarding skill rolls. It seems dynamic to me. You have more control over your target number, but you have to be careful when you pump your skill points into it. You might need them later. If you have 0 skill points in swipe, you can still use the skill, but the highest number you can get will be a "6." You can also roll less dice, rolling one less dice for a flat out "+1" to your highest roll, "+2" for 2 less dice etc. I don't think things would get too obnoxious if we limit attributes to 5 or 6 tops. Maybe we can combine all skill points into two stats, mental fatigue and physical fatigue, and then go from there?

Feel free to reject this idea. I don't want to hijack the game! =P

It's an interesting mechanic and I'd already been toying with the idea of making certain activities cost Energy to perform, but I'll have to give the ramifications further thought (I'm currently in the 'jello brain' mode you describe)...

Right-o. Take your time.

OK, I now think I understand what you're talking about. The main obstacle to my understanding was the idea that our Soul Energy system was a fatigue system, but that's probably not quite right.

In any case, what your describing sounds vaguely similar to spending Edge/Confidence/Willpower in Ars Magica/Shadowrun/WoD which can be handled a number of ways. What would you think about keeping Energy, but lowering the values? Then, not only could we think about instituting the 'Wound' system I wanted (in retrospect, there's no particular reason the system needs to be lethal) and we could keep our spell point idea while allowing non-casters to spend Energy to improve skill/attack (as well as to fuel certain special abilities like Erfak's pounce or Straty's smoke breath). What do you think?

If we can get away from Hit Points or Energy Points as a means of recording damage then that could be really cool. I've only played one system where there was no hit point pool and I think that was the Dresden Files RPG (which was FATE). I was thinking about multiple pools of points to keep track of, but again, that would be a lot of numbers to keep track of and could have made the game unwieldy. Having specific "wounds" could help us tie together other status effects as well and work them in the same way. ex: scraped knees and wet diapers.

Hmm I read the FATE core book, but it was too long ago for me to remember much of the mechanics, but I'll try and look it up too. In any case, now that we've divorced energy from health, we'll have to decide if we want to retain it as part of our magic system or go with something else entirely. In any case, I would like to retain some vestige of the mechanic in the form of a pool of points that can be spent to improve die results or pay for the use of other powers.

Your thoughts?

I feel that mental energy and physical energy should be separate from each other. Physical energy could be used to increase physical skills that a player has training in and mental energy could be used to increase mental skills that the player has training in. We could also use mental energy to fuel spells since spells have the potential to be very powerful and game changing. We could also have a THIRD point pool that takes care of fueling magic by itself. These pools could be based on corresponding attributes, using body and coordination as base stats for physical energy and brightness and cute for mental energy.

I think the perks of this format is that it will encourage logical resting periods for party members and offers some strategic depth when using skills and powers without having daily powers/encounter powers etc.

Hmm that's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how it would work in play. It might wind up being too arbitrary. Still, it's worth a look. Still not sure whether to make mental fatigue separate from MP or not though... *thinks*

Might have to just go with something, playtest it and see if it works.

True enough. I'll try and rig something up with our sample characters and post it tomorrow

Hmmm I tried to run the promised simulation, but in retrospect we don't really have enough information yet on how our skills weapons work in combat to make serious playtest feasible at this point.

I'm sorta leaning toward them letting you 'keep' extra dice, but I'm not really sure how it would work out in play...

What do you mean by that? I should look into some sort of online tabletop simulator. It would probably be way better if we could set aside some time to playtest the rules "side by side."

Well, the attack roll phase worked OK (though I'm still not sure how or if weapon skills factor in), but I wasn't sure yet how we want to adjudicate the characters taking damage or what the consequences ought to be...

How about diapers that give you bonus skills/ailments until they are too used and need to be changed?
Or perhaps these give you base skills, like a base thief diaper makes it easier to pickpocket or lockpick (Good for grabbing cookies and escaping playpens)

Hmm I suppose magic diapers would be a potential magical item. Truth be told though, I've not feel we're quite ready to discuss that just yet. At present, we're still trying to settle on a task resolution system that works for us...

I did some research on Deadlands to understand the wound system in that game. It seems pretty cool, but all the articles I read failed to explain the system in 100% detail. I wouldn't be opposed to creating some adaptation of it, but you might have to spearhead that endeavor.

Alternatively, we could use hit points while we're working that system out. Since certain characters are likely to wear armor in a medieval fantasy setting, do you have any preference on making characters harder to hit with armor, or giving them damage reduction?

Well, I had thought we'd already agreed that we wanted to institute a wound system. I'm just struggling with the integration. As you like a roll and keep system, however, I'm going to take a quick look at similar systems for inspiration before replying in detail...

If the roll and keep system works for the time being and you like it, then that's fine. I didn't mean to come off as trying to change our wound system, I was just offering other considerations because I thought you were having trouble working it out. I think it would be cool to use something like a wound system if only to set our game apart from other games.

As long as it's practical anyway.

Sorry, it's been a hectic few days for me, but I wanted to post something. Basically, I've tried looking at a the system and am a little concerned about the lack of 'granularity'. There are ways around that, of course, but I'm going to have to go over some of the systems that use use a similar mechanic for comparative purposes. I hope to do so soon.

Okay, not a problem at all.

OK, I was delaying from responding because I was waiting to receive my playtest files for a Kickstarter project I backed that seemed to use a mechanic similar to what you proposed (Paranoia Rebooted), but as it turns out is more akin to a standard die pool system albeit with a few dice gimmicks to mix things up. As a result, I think we're back to square one as far as our quest for a core task resolution mechanic is concerned...

You seem to have a good handle on doing something along the lines of 2D6 +attribute bonus +skill rank as a dice mechanic. It's simple, it's a familiar mechanic for the most part for people transferring over from D20 systems but it has the nice benefit of allowing people to get a good idea of the average performance their character will accomplish since 7 is the most likely number. I say we move along with that for the time being.

It seems like a few other people are showing an interest in this project. Maybe we should start considering Skype calls to facilitate a group discussion. I've also made an account on Roll20 to potential set up for some online alpha testing.

Honestly, I'm not sure my computer would support Skype (it has not been well), but I'm certainly willing to give it a shot...

After going through a number of posts I honestly feel, if  Tacki is up to it, you could do well in basing the world around his Children of Maeria series.

Most games have supplementary materials in which have active characters who could be used as an NPCs. CoM has loads of those in place so it is very plausible during any mission to be suddenly saved by a known character who just so happens to be in the area. Plus giving a base world in which can be referenced by the player would make it a lot easier for them to develop how and where their story takes place.

A lot of RPG games have come to use the "Knocked Out" as a way of a character to be defeated but not killed. Once the battle or situation is over the player is set to an HP value of 1 or put in a very weakened state where they'd need someone to help them along.

Going with the Post Event putting a character who is KO'ed to 1 HP would allow no horrid deaths while room for the Storyteller to develop conditions that the KO'ed character would have to deal with along with the rest of the party.

As for a "Class System" why not make it a Dress Up / Costume thing? This would allow for infinite possibilities for character traits. For example a character could wear a costume like that of a Fireman and be able to have all the equipment and traits of a Fireman accessible as long as they are actively using that costume. Perhaps a character could carry in a backpack multiple costumes or mix-and-match costumes to pick-and-choose from a list of abilities associated with a given costume?

Here's a fun example. A Doctor / Fireman / Policeman.

In this mixing of costumes a character could appear in a Fireman's uniform, have on a stethascope, and have a Policeman's hat and badge. Though they'd have to choose what traits they want from each costume since mixing them up means you can't have all of them at once.

So if each costume is assigned 12 abilities then you'd have to pick 4 from each if you were wearing four costumes.

I hope this is a little helpful. :)

Interesting idea. I have seen systems that use a similar mechanic Kobolds Ate My Baby!!! and Maid to replicate class powers without actually forcing the players to invest in a class. Granted, both of the examples I listed were comedy games, but I think it could work in a more serious game, but I'm not quite sure how we'd go about implementing it.

I do definitely want to do some setting books and Maeria could be a good one since I don't think there are a lot of Napoleonic-Era RPGs. In fact, I almost want to try and keep our system-book as setting-free as possible while still remaining true to our babyfur theme. That way, for example, we could have fantasy, modern-era, sci-fi and more all supported using the same basic mechanical engine. The problem thus far, however, is that I'm not quite sure what elements I want to include.

Anyway, thanks for the input. Properly executed, it could be a rather elegant way of resolving our class/level dilemma!

Something to think on in making the worlds, times, and themes as free as possible is perhaps to start every game in a place called "The Playroom". Here players would have access to "Toy Boxes" and "Costume Bins" to develop their character before going through a portal of sorts. Perhaps "The Gate of Infinite Possibility"?

The Playroom would allow the characters to play freely without worry of anything going wrong as a Caretaker NPC is always present. This would mean no resources would be spent while trying out different combinations or doing general character development.

Once players are ready the portal would be jumped into where the Storyteller's setting would appear. Each player could have the option of carrying a "Safety Pin" in which would teleport them instantly back to The Playroom (But with a price of losing some supplies in which a dice roll / situational condition would determine).

The Playroom could also be used for "Snacks" and "Naps" to restore HP. The Storyteller could make portals at set points for the players to return there if they wanted to after completing certain parts of the story without any penalties.

Players who might use the Safety Pin can return to the adventure through the portal at anytime. Though this would be with some silly penalty in which would be the result of teleportation issues. Their clothes could be inside out or they may land in a nearby pool of water. Kind of a comic relief thing.

When an adventure is ended the Storyteller would open a portal back to The Playroom where the players can store all their finds into their "Cubbies". Experience would be distributed along with other end game conditions.

What do you think?

The idea's an interesting one, but I can't help feeling that it might be a tad too light-hearted for what I have in mind though I think we still have a ways to go in settling upon the exact tone that we want to evoke so that may not, in fact, prove an impediment.

Once I've worked out a core mechanic I like we can move on. Actually, while I have serious misgivings about the system Tacki suggested, I think perhaps I should try and write up a system using it if only so we can get a feel for what sort of adventures will, in fact, be run with Babyfur and at least have something concrete to work from.

Your thoughts?

You make a great point in trying to develop a system to test how things will work. You should do so without thinking beyond what is in your mind at the time. This way you can give each idea a wholesome try, pick what you like and don't like, and expand from there.

The bottom line is that the end result has to feel right to you. You are its creator and therefore only you can determine if what is being done is good. The last thing you want is a project to become miserable by allowing it to overwhelm rather than inspire.

I too would aim for a more serious base setting for our game but I really really like that idea of planeswalking babyfurs traveling to multiple realities for fun and adventure, and could see it implemented in a future supplement once the basic game rules have been crafted. That being said, Kaffre and I could be in the minority when it comes to our preference for a "serious babyfur campaign setting." I think it makes a lot of sense to make a lighthearted and/or silly campaign setting starring heroes that haven't mastered the complexities of potty training yet. I think the "costumes" idea is an awesome, unique concept and would love to see that implemented in our game some way in the future. I'm aware of Final Fantasy 3 and X-2 doing something along those lines but I do not believe I've ever heard of something like that in a Pen and Paper RPG.

Come to think of it, maybe the babyfurs in our standard medieval, high fantasy setting could ascend to epic levels where they gain access to this "Playroom" and start visiting various other realities and existences.

I think our big roadblock right now is how to tell the story in a pen and paper, dice rolling RPG setting. Since I don't think we're planning on making a profit off this game, I feel we can be really experimental. At the same time, we need a system that allows for super customized characters (babyfurs are all sorts of species, shapes, sizes, colors, etc.) that is accessible enough for most people.

Also, I don't want to use Maeria as a setting. I haven't really presented much of it to the community for people to really know much about it. Moreover, it is a niche setting within a tiny subculture and I would be worried that people within the subculture would prefer a more general setting. Serious or silly.

Well, the game needn't be deathly serious, but I don't want it to be too jokey either. That said, I can't imagine this game turning a profit under any circumstances we can indeed afford to play around with concepts. To this end, I'll be scribbling something up soon - it'll crib pretty heavily from some other RPGs and will likely require some freeform elements, but I think it will be good for evaluation purposes...

I agree. I will be looking forward to the next draft and happy to present input as applicable. :)

Sounds like a plan!

I agree. I will be looking forward to the next draft and happy to present input as applicable. :)

Have you checked out my own Baby RPG verion at http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12668180/ ? It could be a great inspiration.

Will it be similar to Zork? if you don't know it, you should search it up, there are apps and stuff that let you use it on your phone. but it is a really good reference for easily designed, but well thought out RPGs

It was really more of a tabletop thing though my design priorities keep shifting as I never really had a very firm concept in place to build the mechanics around OR a novel mechanic upon which to build the setting so the whole thing remains pretty amorphous.

I am, slowly, making progress in this however as I've decided to focus on a simple 'domestic' RPG for now and either try to make it as modular as possible or introduce variant rule-sets later to cover campaigns that require greater levels of mechanical sophistication.

This sounds coooool is this still in development

Sorry, didn't see your message until now.

I have thought about it a little bit on and off, but have kind of been distracted with other projects.

To the extent that I have worked on it, it's developed into a more narrative-based 2nd Generation RPG more akin to Ars Magica or WoD with a lot of stuff handled freeform, but I haven't really had any opportunity to playtest my ideas.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have though...