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#ChuckTheFish
6 years ago
General
Hey look, a journal! - They pretty much never happen.
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So, people may or may not been watching the gaming media lately. Those who have, maybe have seen this story:
https://www.gamerevolution.com/news.....s-hours-no-pay
The tl;dr is that Risu from Chucklefish came forward and revealed that they had been subject to abusive working conditions and going unpaid. Once Rho came forward and corroborated it, others spoke up it also became clear quite a few junior staff and contributors had been similarly stiffed. I've also seen a lot of people defending Chucklefish, trying to shoot down the claims as baseless.
For that reason I think it's important I weigh in with an experience of my own.
As you might remember, the Avali originally hit the limelight as a Starbound mod (Chucklefish's big launch title), specifically back during the beta stages of development. They were pinned to the #1 spot of the mod listing for literally a year or more, long after I'd discontinued personally developing the mod. During this time; largely due to fans asking them to, Tiyuri, the head of Chucklefish approached me over Skype and asked if I'd turn the Avali IP and my work on the mod over to Chucklefish to add them to the game in an official context, similarly to how the NovaKid race was created by a fan too.
I discussed some of the complexities of this, since the Avali really only work as a custom race, because they were kind've hacky; Starbound didn't natively support digitigrade/exotic body profiles, they needed lots of custom armour. When I enquired what kind of deal he'd be offering he told me:
"Oh, we can't pay you, it'd just be for the exposure, getting your name in the credits of a major title"
I wanted to say "Fuck you pay me" but instead politely declined. I never really gave it much though after that, figured it was a one-off thing, and maybe no company'd been willing to pay some random netizen for an IP they wanted to acquire. But after the recent stories of Chucklefish approaching, (often literally) children, and getting them to do work for them 'for the exposure', it makes a horrible kind of sense in context.
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If you already own Starbound or other Chucklefish titles, stopping playing them would be a pointless protest if you are still enjoying them, they already have your money. Some of Chucklefish's titles like Stardew Valley and Risk of Rain are tricky, because they were made by indies, who Chucklefish simply published, but if you buy those Chucklefish does get some of your money, so that's your decision to make.
However, if you plan to buy Starbound; especially if the Avali mod is in any way an influencing factor in your decision, I'd strongly discourage doing so, I've never liked their past business practices and this is just scummy icing on a shit sandwich.
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EDIT: To clarify, Chucklefish wanted a full IP transfer (Intellectual Property Rights), NOT just the mod. It's not uncommon for developers to take mods for their own use, indeed it is often baked into the EULA's of their games that mods are their property. If I were to transfer the Avali, everything about them would now belong to Chucklefish: Their likeness, name, lore, as well as the usage rights. Nobody'd be allowed to (legally) make or receive commissions, donations, any financial transactions of any sort, in which the Avali property was involved, not even me.
_____________________________
So, people may or may not been watching the gaming media lately. Those who have, maybe have seen this story:
https://www.gamerevolution.com/news.....s-hours-no-pay
The tl;dr is that Risu from Chucklefish came forward and revealed that they had been subject to abusive working conditions and going unpaid. Once Rho came forward and corroborated it, others spoke up it also became clear quite a few junior staff and contributors had been similarly stiffed. I've also seen a lot of people defending Chucklefish, trying to shoot down the claims as baseless.
For that reason I think it's important I weigh in with an experience of my own.
As you might remember, the Avali originally hit the limelight as a Starbound mod (Chucklefish's big launch title), specifically back during the beta stages of development. They were pinned to the #1 spot of the mod listing for literally a year or more, long after I'd discontinued personally developing the mod. During this time; largely due to fans asking them to, Tiyuri, the head of Chucklefish approached me over Skype and asked if I'd turn the Avali IP and my work on the mod over to Chucklefish to add them to the game in an official context, similarly to how the NovaKid race was created by a fan too.
I discussed some of the complexities of this, since the Avali really only work as a custom race, because they were kind've hacky; Starbound didn't natively support digitigrade/exotic body profiles, they needed lots of custom armour. When I enquired what kind of deal he'd be offering he told me:
"Oh, we can't pay you, it'd just be for the exposure, getting your name in the credits of a major title"
I wanted to say "Fuck you pay me" but instead politely declined. I never really gave it much though after that, figured it was a one-off thing, and maybe no company'd been willing to pay some random netizen for an IP they wanted to acquire. But after the recent stories of Chucklefish approaching, (often literally) children, and getting them to do work for them 'for the exposure', it makes a horrible kind of sense in context.
_____________________________
If you already own Starbound or other Chucklefish titles, stopping playing them would be a pointless protest if you are still enjoying them, they already have your money. Some of Chucklefish's titles like Stardew Valley and Risk of Rain are tricky, because they were made by indies, who Chucklefish simply published, but if you buy those Chucklefish does get some of your money, so that's your decision to make.
However, if you plan to buy Starbound; especially if the Avali mod is in any way an influencing factor in your decision, I'd strongly discourage doing so, I've never liked their past business practices and this is just scummy icing on a shit sandwich.
_____________________________
EDIT: To clarify, Chucklefish wanted a full IP transfer (Intellectual Property Rights), NOT just the mod. It's not uncommon for developers to take mods for their own use, indeed it is often baked into the EULA's of their games that mods are their property. If I were to transfer the Avali, everything about them would now belong to Chucklefish: Their likeness, name, lore, as well as the usage rights. Nobody'd be allowed to (legally) make or receive commissions, donations, any financial transactions of any sort, in which the Avali property was involved, not even me.
"Suck it up now and we'll promise that one day you'll be better off for it." it's a scam.
Yeah, the exposure idea DOES bring up another issue with what I went through with Chucklefish. They didn't even give me a chance to have that promised to me. They came onto the Advance Wars subreddit looking for beta testers, and when I offered my assistance, the other users there immediately launched a smear campaign in my direction, effectively throwing stones in their little glass house as I called out in a post that I got banned for making under the excuse of "disrespecting other users", a rule which conveniently doesn't cover:
-Mockery of lust-induced murder victims, in the interest of ego at that
-Making a tier list of obnoxious things in the community where the sole item in the topmost tier is literally anything you say, keeping in mind what I call out with the entry right above this
-Merciless downvoting for arbitrary reasons
-Claiming to have been trying to get rid of the troll for years despite clear evidence to the contrary
-Claiming that a blatant case of trolling wouldn't be punished because of "false-"reporting by a "butthurt" user
-Stereotyping that even manages to be horribly inaccurate
-Bashing of Spiritual Successor attempts for petty reasons such as *HAVING NAVY*
-Bashing of map makers for petty reasons such as not being built for a game the maps are not designed for
-And my favorite: harassing whoever they like and then claiming that their victims are the ones doing the harassment
Guess who Chucklefish sided with.
I'm wanting to find proper support because I've been wanting to make my own game, a sort of Spiritual Successor to Battalion Wars. Details about a few gameplay aspects here if you need to know:
https://www.patreon.com/MasterKnightDH
Unfortunately, as long as corruption exists in companies like Chucklefish, as well as associated communities, getting the proper support is a pipe dream at best.
Right now, all I can do is get to writing the script for a new rant video about this farce, because good GOD is is ugly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGWu74mdcUk
This involved a hack I made for Game Boy Wars 3, which doesn't have an Auto End Turn feature at all, and there's more to consider than just moved units, which Fire Emblem has. I not only still have it consider not only whether any new units can be built, but also certain features exclusive to GBW3's Campaign Mode, and the way the coding of the base game is designed, I also made sure to keep it from triggering at all if a Victory condition is fulfilled, else it would have advanced the game state to the next player's phase and for starters render the Beginner Mode maps in their easy puzzle status unwinnable.
Wargroove's Auto End Turn feature forgets to even trigger on insufficient funds to buy new units. I'd have been VERY much able to call that out, or given the coding, make necessary modifications because all I'd even need is the lowest costing units of each branch--and unlike Game Boy Wars 3, Wargroove doesn't even have a secondary resource needed for buying units. You see what I'm able to adapt to on limited resources and significantly more complication, yet this company that gets Nintendo's seal of approval can't manage far simpler, and thought that censoring me was a bright idea because somehow I'm "toxic" for refusing to be the female dog of a nasty community in its own right.
Not really surprising tho. Publishers, indie or not, still have a lot of trouble considering paying modders.
Remember the Valve paid mod fiasco? In the aftermath, Bethesda went and made their own paid mod service, with blackjack and hookers, and gave modders an even worse deal than Valve was offering.
But I think there is a difference between asking players to pay mods and paying someone to make a mod official to the game.
In both cases it's still lot of work and needs paiement, but mostly up to the creator.
Anyway, at least it means Avalis are still free (not in the money meaning this time xD), and hopefully will see them elsewhere :p
I have some pretty crazy ideas I think the platform will be able to support.
All I can say is that the "paid in exposure" is such a stupid thing. Exposure doesn't pay for the work and time one puts into this, it's free work for something that doesn't matter much in the end. You can't live from exposure afterall. Honestly a good decision you didn't turn over the Avali IP like so. And the fact they are approaching younger people, young modders or the like and ask them to work for them for exposure sure sounds so bad. Just what even.
It's nuts and a big shame.
Don't ever work for exposure, especially for a big company. They can pay you. And never hand over IPs completely. Always keep a measure of control over the stuff you create. Make sure that you can walk away with your creation in a bind.
...I actually did, and I've been regretting it since these news came to light .w.
I mean, I certainly wouldn't have made a mod for it if I thought the core game was made using sweatshop labour <.< - I feel bad for the people who over the years have come to me and said "I bought Starbound just for the Avali!"
Call it a hunch but I really enjoyed Starbound's earlier incarnations and still have a few of those files backed up. I vaguely recall one of the major developers at the time stepping down and away and since that point the game took a massive change in approach to the game, which IMO was a step down from what it was earlier, with the release version being the most painful. I can't help but feel that the (subjectively) poor design decisions originate from the same place.
It feels unpleasant to speculate but your mod (and its subsequent continuation) was part of the reason I continued to play it over time, if not the only reason. That, and the fact it was one of the most disappointing early access (released) games I've played has turned me away from any "unfinished" games, early access or otherwise because of how the flippant design changes can damage the end result.
When combined with this shitshow that sounds even more fucking awful and just adds to the negative perception I've had of its EA redesign and release. Tiy sounds like scum.
I also didn't know that they were not even gonna compensate you if they did. but it appears you made the proper choice and i am more than happy about it.
I had a few Chucklefish fanboys accuse me of making it up to 'jump on the hate bandwagon', and of course the Skype logs of the conversation with Tiy have long since expired. (I didn't bother keep them on record because, well, nothing came of it, it was a non-event)
That said, I suspect that would just lead to accusations of falsifying the logs instead.
I'm glad you refused, though. Between their unique requirements and the game's generally shaky development path (and, as I've said elsewhere, the accusations make said shakiness make a lot of sense) it would have been more than a waste to turn them over entirely.
And yes, I have a sneaking suspicion that due to their unique needs, either they'd have been bent into a more humanoid shape to ease development, or would have been relegated to a side race like the penguins due to their alien morphology.
Its strange though. I swear that skype keeps those logs almost indefinitely. But then again i rarely ever needed to replace storage hardware and if i did i made alot of backups of everything. Still I am very much happy to know things turned out positively in this situation for you. I feel horrible for everyone that went with it.
I'm glad you kept the Avali IP, I would always play them because of how cute and interesting they were. It would have been a great shame to have chuklefish run them into the ground. The gall of them not to offer money for it.
I read in earlier comments that you have something else planned for them. I look forward to seeing what comes of it. :D
the unpaid devs probs dont care enough to add multithreading support, and rightfully so
I'm holding out hope for a game similar to starbound to replace it.
reason number one being i don't ever want to be told i can't recycle anything i make myself,
no matter how much i might be loosing out by refusing to make a business,
out of trying to communicate ideas visually.
https://i.postimg.cc/DZk9NqS0/Scree.....1-17-55-52.png
https://i.postimg.cc/9f731xFs/Scree.....1-17-56-02.png
https://i.postimg.cc/zBCsYVhj/Scree.....1-18-32-14.png (sorry guys, use copy and paste to work with this URL properly)
https://i.postimg.cc/C5wWhSHV/Scree.....1-18-46-07.png
Oh, and the "volume control" thing is about their attempt at a "counterargument" against my video showing some power abuse by Chucklefish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7ffR5r8MHk
The Starbound subreddit wanted evidence. But they don't want to go through the trouble of typing in a God damned URL clearly shown on video snapshot for an outsider's cross-exammination. I say they're just sycophants. There's simply NO other explanation for a "new" person clearly skimming my profile while telling me I should read an already sadistic Bitch In Sheep's Clothing's post more extensively when calling out her hypocrisy, in a manner where the BiSC even implicated herself.
bummed that RoR1 and Stardew are basically with them, but at least we can still support them independent of Chucklefucks.
I know a lot of friends who like the Avali race, that'll be interested in this. Good for you for staying strong, and knowing your stuff. Keep it up. :D
I was the creator of the Kangaru race, one of the very first race mod creators for Starbound.
There were 3 reasons why I stopped working on my mod.
1) Mods like yours literally overshadowed mine to the point I felt like I was left in the dust and in some ways under appreciated. You had so much more going for the Avali and I was still behind on adding things because I was a mess trying to work the up-and-downs with the code.
2) A number of race mod "stole" assets from my mod (the "head/face" piece being a dead-giveaway) and not giving credit for the work I did let alone asking for permission. Only a couple of race mod authors did the right thing but I lost track of how many went so far to steal my assets.
3) Chucklefish kept making multiple changes to the code (let alone the gameplay, mechanics, story, etc) to the point that some of the changes left me frustrated, upset and royally burnt out trying to update and/or fix the code for my mod or adapt to what ever new feature/plot they added. The last breaking point for me however was when they "baked in" the color swatches for armor/weapon/clothing in to the game itself rather than give me the freedom to specify the colors I was using in my code (which "broke" the swatches I was using). It was because they didn't provide any proper documentation about these changes and never specified what needed to be added/changed to keep my mod (like so many others) from breaking every time even a "small" update was released, I eventually gave up on working on my mod.
I'm just glad you didn't went ahead with the deal... which honestly when you think about it, it isn't even a deal when you're not getting actually "paid" for your effort and resources (exposure does NOT put food on the table, does NOT pay the bills and it certainly does NOT guarantee you a job or position).
The ratings system of mods was based purely on lifetime updoots. The Avali mod got out there early enough and was unusual enough that it got a lot of traction in the earliest days of Starbound, before the player count really tailed off. As a result, the Avali mod had more upvotes than there were regular players once the community became established and settled down, essentially it became statistically impossible (At least until the official launch reset of the mod lists), for any mods created later on to actually displace it, even if they absolutely blew it out the water content and quality-wise. Further compounded by the fact the default mod listing (Might have been the only list mode at the time?) was 'most popular of all time'
This is why modding websites and lists really need to make 'Popular in the last X days' the default list mode, not 'Most popular of all time'
I wanted to say thank you for making the mod because one of my now best friends I met through Starbound just from your Avali existing. I don't think I would have met him if Avali didnt exist.
On one hand you drastically Lost a huge portfolio opportunity towards growing as an artist.
On the other hand, You get to keep your IP, But people are dividing the avali, and the starbound/Avali is Kinda all over the place. You say not to support it, But starbound is huge on VR and discord.
I high key don't support your statement. Like While that might be true, You could of played your cards right, and actually got into a company project that offered to properly* pay you. I'm probably the only person on the other side here.