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At the Waukeshau Gunshow
I attended the Waukeshau gunshow today to sell off some guns no longer wanted and to get badly needed money.
Unfortunately this started the day after the Sandy Hook school shootings. And there were numerous protesters outside the main entrance all screaming at anybody walking in. Those with guns were especially targeted for their wraith.
One woman actually said this to me as I walked towards the entrance, and yes, I actually said this.
Sadly I also didn't sell the guns I brought, only sharks offering a quarter the value were asking, wanting bargains so they could clean up.
On Sandy Hook School....as a parent I was utterly stunned at what happened. And that this country seriously needs to address mental health issues in a big way.
And even if you were to magically ban all guns tomorrow, actions of mass killing will still happen by nutcases using other means possible.
I hate to say it.
I also had to quickly scribble this up.
Unfortunately this started the day after the Sandy Hook school shootings. And there were numerous protesters outside the main entrance all screaming at anybody walking in. Those with guns were especially targeted for their wraith.
One woman actually said this to me as I walked towards the entrance, and yes, I actually said this.
Sadly I also didn't sell the guns I brought, only sharks offering a quarter the value were asking, wanting bargains so they could clean up.
On Sandy Hook School....as a parent I was utterly stunned at what happened. And that this country seriously needs to address mental health issues in a big way.
And even if you were to magically ban all guns tomorrow, actions of mass killing will still happen by nutcases using other means possible.
I hate to say it.
I also had to quickly scribble this up.
Category All / All
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 585 x 772px
File Size 150.2 kB
(Right...LAST ATTEMPT)
.....Right....21 dead and 90 injured between 2010-2011 alone....In China...By knife attacks alone. Don't even presume to start talking about something if you don't know the facts.
As reference.
.....Right....21 dead and 90 injured between 2010-2011 alone....In China...By knife attacks alone. Don't even presume to start talking about something if you don't know the facts.
As reference.
Dude? Really? If those same crazy bitches could have killed people with a gun, that dead number would be much larger, wouldn't it?
Plus this is a larger number of attacks in China as opposed to this one attack in the states. For every one person here is the equivalent of four or five for them. I'm not saying getting stabbed is a walk through the park, I'm simply saying your chances of dying from a knife attack is much lower.
Also, slow down there slick shit. At no point in that statement did I even mention I was for or against gun control. I'm using what I know and common sense. I stand up for people's rights to bare arm. I was just stating an obvious fact about what other people had mentioned. You can start not presuming shit you know nothing about.
GTFO.
Plus this is a larger number of attacks in China as opposed to this one attack in the states. For every one person here is the equivalent of four or five for them. I'm not saying getting stabbed is a walk through the park, I'm simply saying your chances of dying from a knife attack is much lower.
Also, slow down there slick shit. At no point in that statement did I even mention I was for or against gun control. I'm using what I know and common sense. I stand up for people's rights to bare arm. I was just stating an obvious fact about what other people had mentioned. You can start not presuming shit you know nothing about.
GTFO.
"Actually many of us do know.
The point some are making is while it was horrible what happened in China, no one died.
It's hard to kill a large group of people with just a knife. It's very easy to mow people down with just a gun."
"no one died." Your statement says a lot more than anything I said. You're stating you know, know what? Cause by that statement it's fairly obvious that you DON'T know. School attacks in China are not near so common, just like mass shooting incidents (Or Tragedies such as Connecticut) are VERY very rare. Yet...People DIED. Stating "no one died.", making that claim? Guess what, You don't know the facts, you make a statement like that, someone's gonna call you on it.
The point some are making is while it was horrible what happened in China, no one died.
It's hard to kill a large group of people with just a knife. It's very easy to mow people down with just a gun."
"no one died." Your statement says a lot more than anything I said. You're stating you know, know what? Cause by that statement it's fairly obvious that you DON'T know. School attacks in China are not near so common, just like mass shooting incidents (Or Tragedies such as Connecticut) are VERY very rare. Yet...People DIED. Stating "no one died.", making that claim? Guess what, You don't know the facts, you make a statement like that, someone's gonna call you on it.
Honestly, I'm a firearms owner. More restrictions on firearms won't change a thing, it'll only make one side more angry at the other, and vice versa if no firearms restrictions are implimented. To politicize a tragedy like this is disgusting, especially not even 2 hours after it happened, and to spread misinformation in regards to another tragedy kinda ticks me off to a lesser point as well.
Agreed. It would help the discussion immensely if people would stop focusing on the weapon instead of the person using it. Blaming the weapon is about as sensible as blaming food for making you fat. Yes, it may do just that, especially if you eat too much of the wrong things, but it still requires someone to pick up said food and eat it.
I'd rather talk about the cause of this tragedy and not the means of how it was carried out. Whatever our positions on guns and gun control, can we at least stop blaming an inanimate object for murder? It's getting rather silly.
I'd rather talk about the cause of this tragedy and not the means of how it was carried out. Whatever our positions on guns and gun control, can we at least stop blaming an inanimate object for murder? It's getting rather silly.
Aaaand now they are saying the .223 rifle was on his body and was the main weapon used. Media has gone back and forth on this about 5 times now and I even saw one outlet claiming a henry repeater was used. WTF? Can't the media get the story straight? No wonder you can't trust them anymore. It is all about rumors and ratings, not real journalism anymore.
The General was named Cosgrove in the usual version of the story, but he didn't say it. The original version had a totally fictitious "General Reinwald" as the source, and the exchange was totally fabricated.
the PHRASE "political correctness" was coined to belittle and discredit REAL morality.
some things to do with guns would help. like manufacturing fewer of them for example.
the real issue though, is the stress created by a culture that seems to think there anything good about the evil of aggressiveness.
some things to do with guns would help. like manufacturing fewer of them for example.
the real issue though, is the stress created by a culture that seems to think there anything good about the evil of aggressiveness.
Taking Morgan Freeman's advice wouldn't hurt, either:
http://www.examiner.com/article/mor.....-on-adam-lanza
http://www.examiner.com/article/mor.....-on-adam-lanza
To nitpick, according to Snopes it's not from Morgan Freeman, just something that's attributed to him.
I agree with the sentiment, though, regardless of who actually said/wrote it.
I agree with the sentiment, though, regardless of who actually said/wrote it.
What is just as vial is the politicization of the anti-gun groups; using a tragedy like this to promote an agenda.
I think our concerns should be with the families and the State of Connecticut (not whether guns should be banned or not).
And for those who think it's the guns, they should do a bit of research:
Bath School disaster - Bath Township, Michigan, May 18, 1927.
From what I recall it was a bombing that killed 38 elementary school children along with 6 adults, two of which were teachers.
If I had to pick anything to blame, it's how our country's loosing it's moral compass in the last 40 years.
I think our concerns should be with the families and the State of Connecticut (not whether guns should be banned or not).
And for those who think it's the guns, they should do a bit of research:
Bath School disaster - Bath Township, Michigan, May 18, 1927.
From what I recall it was a bombing that killed 38 elementary school children along with 6 adults, two of which were teachers.
If I had to pick anything to blame, it's how our country's loosing it's moral compass in the last 40 years.
While I am no means an expert on the subject of U.S gun laws, from what I have heard and read the process one goes through for getting a gun is little more than a light background check, I would consider some deeper level of inquirey to be preferable. for example checking to see if the person trying to buy a gun has made any blogs or websites about murdering people on the opposite side of the political spectrum from them as one heavy handed example.
For another, well limiting the size of weapon magazines would also be a prudent measure in my belief. I cannot think of a single non malicious reason to have them. Any hunter worth their salt wouldn't need double the amount of regular bullets to take down their prey so I can only assume those who would horde and buy them have... less than noble intent for them.
Also I would put some restrictions on what kind of weapons citizens are aloud. The numbers of AK47's and other fully automatic rifles should be limited because they are very overpowered weapons.
Also Mandatory courses on gun ownership and gun owner responsibility wouldn't be amiss.
But I do seriously believe if bullets were made considerably more expensive it would limit the sheer number of wounded in these bi weekly shootings the states is going through. If the mad man can't afford as many bullets he wont be able to hurt as many people.
Plus if bullets were more expensive gun owners would have to become better marksmen to compinsate, waste less ammo and focus on accuracy, thats always a plus ^^
I hope you do not find my opinions and idea's disagreeable. Its just I have friends in the states, and i would rather they live long enough for me to get to meet them in real life ^^
For another, well limiting the size of weapon magazines would also be a prudent measure in my belief. I cannot think of a single non malicious reason to have them. Any hunter worth their salt wouldn't need double the amount of regular bullets to take down their prey so I can only assume those who would horde and buy them have... less than noble intent for them.
Also I would put some restrictions on what kind of weapons citizens are aloud. The numbers of AK47's and other fully automatic rifles should be limited because they are very overpowered weapons.
Also Mandatory courses on gun ownership and gun owner responsibility wouldn't be amiss.
But I do seriously believe if bullets were made considerably more expensive it would limit the sheer number of wounded in these bi weekly shootings the states is going through. If the mad man can't afford as many bullets he wont be able to hurt as many people.
Plus if bullets were more expensive gun owners would have to become better marksmen to compinsate, waste less ammo and focus on accuracy, thats always a plus ^^
I hope you do not find my opinions and idea's disagreeable. Its just I have friends in the states, and i would rather they live long enough for me to get to meet them in real life ^^
Hey you are opening your mouth and showing how much you don't know. The only way you can legally own full auto firearms is to get a class 3 permit.
I think you need to do some studying of the subject you are trying to talk about.
It only takes 54 foot pounds of energy to kill an human being many pellet rifles surpass that.
I think you need to do some studying of the subject you are trying to talk about.
It only takes 54 foot pounds of energy to kill an human being many pellet rifles surpass that.
Well clearly a class 3 permit is not a sufficient process since all these mentaly ill maniacs continue to get their hands on these weapons and butcher more of your countrymen So instead of talking smack about how little I know why don't you present an idea on how to fix the problem?
Now I want you to read this and UNDERSTAND THIS... None and I mean NONE, of the guns used in any of the shooting here in the USA in the last 30 years were automatic weapons as in "machine gun" where it keeps shooting till you let off the trigger. NONE of the guns used had select-fire capability. Any story you read or hear that says there were is a lie. YES a LIE!
Our media in this country has been pushing the anti-gun agenda for ohhh the last 40 years at least. Their rule is simple if it bleeds it leads. Yet they say nothing when someone protects themselves or their family with a gun. A few of years ago in Seattle, Washington USA a single woman shot and killed a KNOWN RAPIST and CHILD MOLESTER in her home in the middle of the night. The MEDIA twisted the story where it was her fault for killing him and she should have called the police. The facts were he had cut the phone lines and broke into the home. He was armed and would have likely killed her when he was done. It was not till days later they even said this, they didn't say he had a rap sheet longer than your arm or he was just out of prison on parole.
The US Supreme Court has ruled that NO Policing force has the obligation or obligated to protect any of this country citizens, they are there to deal with a crime after the fact. This means the cops can be standing right there and they don't have to act till after you are dead. This means you as a citizen are the one obligated to protecting yourself and family. This ruling came about the same time that under Bill Clinton they were trying to strip the US citizens of their right to Self-protection and Self-defense.
Back to the US Media...it is very biased to the left they do not just report the story they have to twist it to fit their view point. A fine example is how they have reported these shootings calling all the guns used as automatic weapons when they WERE NOT. They were auto loading or semi-automatic meaning they fire one shot every time the trigger is pulled. There is a big difference between the two.
If you were to remove all the guns these people would still find a way to kill others. With what you have in most homes and or hardware stores you can make things that are far more deadly and out have killed more people with no warning. It would only have to be about the size of a pop bottle or a pint jar. With a gun after the first shot you have warning.
There are two links that most all theses shootings share ONE. the people involved were on one or more prescribed medications for ADD ADHA depression anxiety. And they have been on them for over a year. (Many of these disorders were made up by Pharmaceutical Industry so they could sell their products.) With many of these pharmaceuticals the side effects are far worse then what they are trying to treat. (I was on an anti-depression drug for a very short time because the side effects were worse than the depression!) TWO violent and bloody video games and yes there does seem to be a "culture of violence" that seems to fallow with them... I have seen this with a couple of guys that I use to work with, the bloodier and more violent the games were the more they liked them. There actions also were more violent when confronted with issues.
IS there anyway to stop things like this from happening? Sadly no, the truth is if they don't have a gun they will find some other way. Like in England the weapon of choice is a knife or blade, the same is true in Japan and China... China and Japan both have higher murder rates then the US does when you dig through the numbers.
Our media in this country has been pushing the anti-gun agenda for ohhh the last 40 years at least. Their rule is simple if it bleeds it leads. Yet they say nothing when someone protects themselves or their family with a gun. A few of years ago in Seattle, Washington USA a single woman shot and killed a KNOWN RAPIST and CHILD MOLESTER in her home in the middle of the night. The MEDIA twisted the story where it was her fault for killing him and she should have called the police. The facts were he had cut the phone lines and broke into the home. He was armed and would have likely killed her when he was done. It was not till days later they even said this, they didn't say he had a rap sheet longer than your arm or he was just out of prison on parole.
The US Supreme Court has ruled that NO Policing force has the obligation or obligated to protect any of this country citizens, they are there to deal with a crime after the fact. This means the cops can be standing right there and they don't have to act till after you are dead. This means you as a citizen are the one obligated to protecting yourself and family. This ruling came about the same time that under Bill Clinton they were trying to strip the US citizens of their right to Self-protection and Self-defense.
Back to the US Media...it is very biased to the left they do not just report the story they have to twist it to fit their view point. A fine example is how they have reported these shootings calling all the guns used as automatic weapons when they WERE NOT. They were auto loading or semi-automatic meaning they fire one shot every time the trigger is pulled. There is a big difference between the two.
If you were to remove all the guns these people would still find a way to kill others. With what you have in most homes and or hardware stores you can make things that are far more deadly and out have killed more people with no warning. It would only have to be about the size of a pop bottle or a pint jar. With a gun after the first shot you have warning.
There are two links that most all theses shootings share ONE. the people involved were on one or more prescribed medications for ADD ADHA depression anxiety. And they have been on them for over a year. (Many of these disorders were made up by Pharmaceutical Industry so they could sell their products.) With many of these pharmaceuticals the side effects are far worse then what they are trying to treat. (I was on an anti-depression drug for a very short time because the side effects were worse than the depression!) TWO violent and bloody video games and yes there does seem to be a "culture of violence" that seems to fallow with them... I have seen this with a couple of guys that I use to work with, the bloodier and more violent the games were the more they liked them. There actions also were more violent when confronted with issues.
IS there anyway to stop things like this from happening? Sadly no, the truth is if they don't have a gun they will find some other way. Like in England the weapon of choice is a knife or blade, the same is true in Japan and China... China and Japan both have higher murder rates then the US does when you dig through the numbers.
And what particular media outlets have been pushing this anti gun agenda may i ask? Because all I've seen so far is pro gun agenda stuff being pushed. Can you give me the name of a network? a news show? a newspaper, something It would be refreshing to see evidence that your media actuly has people on the other side of the argument ^^
A small caveat: Violent video games may serve more as a catalyst than a cause. As video games have gotten better graphics, violent crime has gone down. This doesn't mean there's a direct link between them, yet it's hard not to imagine video games serving as an outlet for anger and frustration. It allows one to kill without having really killed, and can lead to a reduction in stress.
That said, this does not mean there aren't some very evil and nasty video games out there. And some of them can encourage aggressive and "macho" attitudes in people ("Spec Ops: The Line" seems made to comment on the FPS culture itself). And a person who's disturbed or evil already may only be encouraged by what they see on the screen, or find a way to use them to train themselves for the final attack.
Even so, let's not blame a form of entertainment for tragedies caused by mental issues, or by plain old wickedness. The problem will always be us, and not the things we make. After all, someone has to make the video games in the first place, and then someone disturbed or immoral has to play them. If they were really a source of evil though, things would no doubt be a lot worse. As it is, I see no clear evidence that such is true.
That said, this does not mean there aren't some very evil and nasty video games out there. And some of them can encourage aggressive and "macho" attitudes in people ("Spec Ops: The Line" seems made to comment on the FPS culture itself). And a person who's disturbed or evil already may only be encouraged by what they see on the screen, or find a way to use them to train themselves for the final attack.
Even so, let's not blame a form of entertainment for tragedies caused by mental issues, or by plain old wickedness. The problem will always be us, and not the things we make. After all, someone has to make the video games in the first place, and then someone disturbed or immoral has to play them. If they were really a source of evil though, things would no doubt be a lot worse. As it is, I see no clear evidence that such is true.
There is more to this subject than people want to admit there is and I do think that many of the prescribed pharmaceuticals that I talked about are part of the root cause. As a rule 25 to 40 years ago we almost never had this kind of thing happening. It's only in the last 20 or so years that it's been on the up swing.
I remember back about 25 years ago where there were a number of murders that were caused by a couple of young men that were heavy into D&D and their heavy involvement in D&D was blamed... BUT they were both on prescribed pharmaceuticals for depression and ADHD I think it was. When you look back and see a number of common links and one being pharmaceuticals you really have to question just how safe are they!
I was on Zoloft for about a month and a half, it's side effects were worse then the depression I was dealing with. I told my doctor about the side effects I was having and she said I shouldn't be having any side effects because it's "SAFE"! After that I don't take any meds unless I have to and if I feel something is wrong with how I'm feeling or reacting to things I stop using them.
I remember back about 25 years ago where there were a number of murders that were caused by a couple of young men that were heavy into D&D and their heavy involvement in D&D was blamed... BUT they were both on prescribed pharmaceuticals for depression and ADHD I think it was. When you look back and see a number of common links and one being pharmaceuticals you really have to question just how safe are they!
I was on Zoloft for about a month and a half, it's side effects were worse then the depression I was dealing with. I told my doctor about the side effects I was having and she said I shouldn't be having any side effects because it's "SAFE"! After that I don't take any meds unless I have to and if I feel something is wrong with how I'm feeling or reacting to things I stop using them.
The point I'm trying to make is there is more going on here than people want to see. It's not the guns that are the issue. It's what is the cause of the disconnect with the real world and caring about the people around you. I think it has a lot to do with the drugs that are being forced on the kids because the teachers or parents don't know or want to deal with kids being kids.
You just addressed the video games not what I said about the drugs... I should have broken that into two parts.
I have found one of the best antidepressants for me is just sitting down with my dog and pet her brush her. Walking with her is also very good to help me relax.
You just addressed the video games not what I said about the drugs... I should have broken that into two parts.
I have found one of the best antidepressants for me is just sitting down with my dog and pet her brush her. Walking with her is also very good to help me relax.
Well, yeah. I was wondering how it related is all. ^.^;; Most people I reply to in a debate tend to at least acknowledge if I have a point, or tell me how stupid I am and why. =P Having you go on about drugs without even touching video games kinda threw me for a loop. No connection at all.
Over-prescribing is indeed a problem. I can only hope we can get things cleared up and stop giving out drugs where they're not needed. Mom made the right choice not giving me Ritalin, or so the last doctor said.
Even if one needs drugs though, that only covers the mental problems. There is no pill to heal the soul, only the touch of God on a broken heart. Dunno how many people will be willing to ask for that though. It does require a willingness to repent after all.
Over-prescribing is indeed a problem. I can only hope we can get things cleared up and stop giving out drugs where they're not needed. Mom made the right choice not giving me Ritalin, or so the last doctor said.
Even if one needs drugs though, that only covers the mental problems. There is no pill to heal the soul, only the touch of God on a broken heart. Dunno how many people will be willing to ask for that though. It does require a willingness to repent after all.
Even if one needs drugs though, that only covers the mental problems. There is no pill to heal the soul, only the touch of God on a broken heart. Dunno how many people will be willing to ask for that though. It does require a willingness to repent after all.
It also takes a willingness to say something is wrong too. So many people today point the finger and blame at someone else and forget the three that are pointing right back at them.
It also takes a willingness to say something is wrong too. So many people today point the finger and blame at someone else and forget the three that are pointing right back at them.
...in addition to Femme's commentary, I think it might be prudent to explain something for you about the importance of guns in the United States of America.
The original intent of the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. constitution was to ensure that The People of each state would be able to form a defensive militia in the event that defence of the Public became necessary.... Not just from those that would try to overthrow the country from without, but from factions WITHIN the country as well. The Founding Fathers, fresh out of a civil war to extract 'The Colonies' from the tyrannical rule of King George III of England, understood that should the Federal Government become dictatorial, too brash and no longer, 'Of The People, by The People and for The People," then it would fall upon the shoulders of The People to take back the federal government from whatever forces had corrupted it away from it's mandated duty.
To that end, I respectfully disagree with some of your ideas. Background checks at the Federal Level as well as mandated waiting periods are already in place - the so-called 'Brady Bill', which was instituted after President Ronald Regan and several other people were shot.... by a mentally unstable person. The rationale was 'give a person time to think about a gun purchase and they're likely no longer want it, if it's a passion-purchase'.
What I feel would be FAR more advantageous to the United States' society would be two-fold;
1) Teach Gun Safety early... late high school / age of majority. A healthy respect for ANY tool (and this IS a tool) as well as an understanding of it's capabilities and responsibilities would help dispel any romanticized notions of what the use of a gun is like.
2) Scaling back the regulations on weapon ownership. OWNING a weapon is not harmful to others, just as owning a sword, or an axe, or a butter knife. What one does with that tool decides if its a good thing or a bad thing. As an example, in 1960, Inejiro Asanuma was killed in front of a live audience, as well as TV audience, during a debate by a teenager who had NO access to guns, but instead used a Samurai's secondary sword, a 'wakizashi'.
Do I think there is a 'perfect solution'? No, because there will ALWAYS be those that would want to do harm to others in an unlawful way. But I do feel STRONGLY that Education is one of the STRONGEST weapons available to society to foster a more civil and supportive People.
The original intent of the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. constitution was to ensure that The People of each state would be able to form a defensive militia in the event that defence of the Public became necessary.... Not just from those that would try to overthrow the country from without, but from factions WITHIN the country as well. The Founding Fathers, fresh out of a civil war to extract 'The Colonies' from the tyrannical rule of King George III of England, understood that should the Federal Government become dictatorial, too brash and no longer, 'Of The People, by The People and for The People," then it would fall upon the shoulders of The People to take back the federal government from whatever forces had corrupted it away from it's mandated duty.
To that end, I respectfully disagree with some of your ideas. Background checks at the Federal Level as well as mandated waiting periods are already in place - the so-called 'Brady Bill', which was instituted after President Ronald Regan and several other people were shot.... by a mentally unstable person. The rationale was 'give a person time to think about a gun purchase and they're likely no longer want it, if it's a passion-purchase'.
What I feel would be FAR more advantageous to the United States' society would be two-fold;
1) Teach Gun Safety early... late high school / age of majority. A healthy respect for ANY tool (and this IS a tool) as well as an understanding of it's capabilities and responsibilities would help dispel any romanticized notions of what the use of a gun is like.
2) Scaling back the regulations on weapon ownership. OWNING a weapon is not harmful to others, just as owning a sword, or an axe, or a butter knife. What one does with that tool decides if its a good thing or a bad thing. As an example, in 1960, Inejiro Asanuma was killed in front of a live audience, as well as TV audience, during a debate by a teenager who had NO access to guns, but instead used a Samurai's secondary sword, a 'wakizashi'.
Do I think there is a 'perfect solution'? No, because there will ALWAYS be those that would want to do harm to others in an unlawful way. But I do feel STRONGLY that Education is one of the STRONGEST weapons available to society to foster a more civil and supportive People.
I agree that education about and of the weapons would be the ideal course of action.
Different culture different values I surpose, the gun was so instrumental in the founding of your country that american's developed quite a fixcation with the tool where as an outsider like me looks in and says 'Why is this thing such a big deal?'
Though I must say the part in the second ammendment about rising up against your goverment makes me ... uncomfortable because I've seen the mad men in the news stories raving on about how they have to protect themselves from the goverment, and thats why they shot up whatever place they did this time and killed how ever many innocent bystanders they did this time.
But all I'm saying is it makes me uncomfortable i'm not saying it isn't a legitamate point to have a a check in place to protect civilians from a corrupt goverment
In the end all I can say is I'm tired of turning on the news, and hearing about yet another mass shooting in the states. Something has to be done, what gets done I surpose is up to you guys. Just stop killing each other, please?
Different culture different values I surpose, the gun was so instrumental in the founding of your country that american's developed quite a fixcation with the tool where as an outsider like me looks in and says 'Why is this thing such a big deal?'
Though I must say the part in the second ammendment about rising up against your goverment makes me ... uncomfortable because I've seen the mad men in the news stories raving on about how they have to protect themselves from the goverment, and thats why they shot up whatever place they did this time and killed how ever many innocent bystanders they did this time.
But all I'm saying is it makes me uncomfortable i'm not saying it isn't a legitamate point to have a a check in place to protect civilians from a corrupt goverment
In the end all I can say is I'm tired of turning on the news, and hearing about yet another mass shooting in the states. Something has to be done, what gets done I surpose is up to you guys. Just stop killing each other, please?
In the end all I can say is I'm tired of turning on the news, and hearing about yet another mass shooting in the states. Something has to be done, what gets done I surpose is up to you guys. Just stop killing each other, please?As the father of a 10 year old.... you and me, both.
You're very kind and unoffensive with your words and mannerisms, I'll start by saying. I don't feel heated responding to you.
In my State (Commonwealth) of Pennsylvania, yes, it is a rapid background check performed any time a handgun is legally traded hands, or any firearm is purchased at a dealer or other reputable retailer or wholesaler. The greatly-expedited, automated, centralized check includes as an immediate denial:
Any violent conviction of any sort no matter the severity
Any domestic incident
Any felony
Any drug conviction
Fugitive status
Mental defect (unwilling commitment to mental institution, dangerous mental defect, at-the-moment commitment to any mental institution)
Non-US citizens (who wouldn't be able to be checked of these things, and so are summarily denied)
Those who renounced US Citizenship
Those of below-age for the desired item
Any current indictment for a crime for which the punishment can possibly be imprisonment of a year or more (excluding things like traffic stop court battles, including pending indictments for rape/murder etc)
It's hardly lacking in comprehension, and short of a government agent blatantly snooping on someone's personal stuff and spending quite a bit of valuable billable hours poring over their internet accesses...
Actual automatic weapons, explosives, launchers for these, grenades, other sorts of non-casual weapons are restricted by yet more permits and procedures. Nobody "comes into a machinegun".
I like having a thirty round magazine for my 10/22 Ruger, because... I want to shoot thirty cans at a time before walking ninety meters back to my range. I like having a huge magazine for my pistol... because it's cool! Why not?
I'm in favor of basic firearm familiarity, but I promise everyone's going to scream about their rights and privacy and my children shouldn't be exposed to that.
The only people that expensive ammunition is going to hurt ARE the people with legitimate purposes. Someone spending up for a nice big murder spree is hardly sane, and I doubt they'll do anything reasonable including financial thrift. Someone putting down cash for a weekend with some good ol' paper targets however, is something that'll put a burn in the sports-shooting area.
In my State (Commonwealth) of Pennsylvania, yes, it is a rapid background check performed any time a handgun is legally traded hands, or any firearm is purchased at a dealer or other reputable retailer or wholesaler. The greatly-expedited, automated, centralized check includes as an immediate denial:
Any violent conviction of any sort no matter the severity
Any domestic incident
Any felony
Any drug conviction
Fugitive status
Mental defect (unwilling commitment to mental institution, dangerous mental defect, at-the-moment commitment to any mental institution)
Non-US citizens (who wouldn't be able to be checked of these things, and so are summarily denied)
Those who renounced US Citizenship
Those of below-age for the desired item
Any current indictment for a crime for which the punishment can possibly be imprisonment of a year or more (excluding things like traffic stop court battles, including pending indictments for rape/murder etc)
It's hardly lacking in comprehension, and short of a government agent blatantly snooping on someone's personal stuff and spending quite a bit of valuable billable hours poring over their internet accesses...
Actual automatic weapons, explosives, launchers for these, grenades, other sorts of non-casual weapons are restricted by yet more permits and procedures. Nobody "comes into a machinegun".
I like having a thirty round magazine for my 10/22 Ruger, because... I want to shoot thirty cans at a time before walking ninety meters back to my range. I like having a huge magazine for my pistol... because it's cool! Why not?
I'm in favor of basic firearm familiarity, but I promise everyone's going to scream about their rights and privacy and my children shouldn't be exposed to that.
The only people that expensive ammunition is going to hurt ARE the people with legitimate purposes. Someone spending up for a nice big murder spree is hardly sane, and I doubt they'll do anything reasonable including financial thrift. Someone putting down cash for a weekend with some good ol' paper targets however, is something that'll put a burn in the sports-shooting area.
You sir are a pleasent suprise, much calmer and more rational than some who have responded to me this night ^^ and it is a delight swapping ideas with and conversing with you on this subject.
Well from what you have posted above it seems the back ground checks done in actual gun stores are pretty intensive, so thats better than my reasearch had lead me to believe. I surpose the real trouble is that the sellers of guns at Gunshows like Mr Rabbi wanted to do are hardly in a position to do such intensive checks on those who wish to buy guns from them, which would lead to some people who really shouldn't have weapons procuring them. Though realisticaly short of banning the sale of used guns what can really be done to remedy that situation other than useing common sence on who to sell to *shrugs*
and though I disagree with your stance on the 30 round magazines I still respect your opinion on the matter. Its not the law abiding citizens I worry about its the crazies I am caucious of.
And with the more expensive bullets idea, well Its not a perfect solution I give you that, but having given the idea some more thought perhaps a bulk discount for bullets at shooting ranges? encourage people to go to ranges and do their praticing there where they can buy cheap clips to use on the range. anything that encourages more pratice in a safe enviroment is a good thing in my book ^^
Well from what you have posted above it seems the back ground checks done in actual gun stores are pretty intensive, so thats better than my reasearch had lead me to believe. I surpose the real trouble is that the sellers of guns at Gunshows like Mr Rabbi wanted to do are hardly in a position to do such intensive checks on those who wish to buy guns from them, which would lead to some people who really shouldn't have weapons procuring them. Though realisticaly short of banning the sale of used guns what can really be done to remedy that situation other than useing common sence on who to sell to *shrugs*
and though I disagree with your stance on the 30 round magazines I still respect your opinion on the matter. Its not the law abiding citizens I worry about its the crazies I am caucious of.
And with the more expensive bullets idea, well Its not a perfect solution I give you that, but having given the idea some more thought perhaps a bulk discount for bullets at shooting ranges? encourage people to go to ranges and do their praticing there where they can buy cheap clips to use on the range. anything that encourages more pratice in a safe enviroment is a good thing in my book ^^
Many times at gunshows in Pennsylvania it's just a phonecall, it's the dealer's responsibility to record the authentication number, which is then recorded on the bills of sale. It's the state that actually does all the checking, on a semi-constant basis, and whenever there's an inquisition made on the buyer's behalf, the state just parrots whatever their current eligibility is.
I have many very restrictive ranges around me, and I have my backyard. One of these is free and I can do whatever I want (and for the record, I've always been beyond reasonably safe to my surroundings) ...everything is a freedom infringement.
I have many very restrictive ranges around me, and I have my backyard. One of these is free and I can do whatever I want (and for the record, I've always been beyond reasonably safe to my surroundings) ...everything is a freedom infringement.
Sir:
As an Intelligence expert, I would not say that getting a gun is little more then a light background check. That is what YOU see (by design) long gun or hand gun, the FBI is notified and much of what you say DOES go on. The problem comes in with that nasty First Amendment right. Law Enforcement can WATCH you but your absolute freedom of speech cannot be infringed upon.
That guy could have stood outside the school and laid out his whole plan, besides disturbing the peace, little could be done.
I also point out that in the (Hopefully) VERY unlikely event a Government (ours) turns on it's own people (Happened in China, Russia, Germany can happen here) the FIST think the government does is DISarm the people. The Germans in WWII marched into Belgium, looked up the data base of gun owner, and shot them. The onion has many layers
As an Intelligence expert, I would not say that getting a gun is little more then a light background check. That is what YOU see (by design) long gun or hand gun, the FBI is notified and much of what you say DOES go on. The problem comes in with that nasty First Amendment right. Law Enforcement can WATCH you but your absolute freedom of speech cannot be infringed upon.
That guy could have stood outside the school and laid out his whole plan, besides disturbing the peace, little could be done.
I also point out that in the (Hopefully) VERY unlikely event a Government (ours) turns on it's own people (Happened in China, Russia, Germany can happen here) the FIST think the government does is DISarm the people. The Germans in WWII marched into Belgium, looked up the data base of gun owner, and shot them. The onion has many layers
That would be negligent homicide, or reckless endangerment, and anything ensuing would be charged against you (tramplings, damage due to fire suppression), as well as fraudulent use of emergency resources and other things. If you need an example of the First Amendment going horribly wrong, research Westboro Baptist Church. I don't approve of what they do, but they don't immediately and definitively put someone in danger, so there's nothing that can be done.
well >.> in my plan for eventual globel domination the police would use more rubber bullets than the metal kind ^^
But in all seriousness hmm, a discount for both law enforcement and gun ranges to still allow people an easy and cheap way to pratice. Would help hunters greatly if the price of bullets went up so they could train to become excilent snipers ^^
But in all seriousness hmm, a discount for both law enforcement and gun ranges to still allow people an easy and cheap way to pratice. Would help hunters greatly if the price of bullets went up so they could train to become excilent snipers ^^
This is kind of an odd point. I'm not sure what happens where you're from, but let me explain something.
When you're 18-19 years old, many companies are happy to offer you a credit card! If you're planning on going on a shooting spree and then killing yourself, why bother paying it back? Buy all the ammunition you want. I think your first spending limit is somewhere within $250-350. It's not unfathomable that someone could open up multiple cards and buy all the ammo they want. No offense, but they'll be dead. They don't plan on paying it back.
Meanwhile, the rest of us who use firearms for home defense, provisions (there are places where people rely solely on hunting for their meat suppy, here), etc. will suffer the price hikes in an already unpleasant economy.
There's nothing to be done that I can think of. If we add more gun control, we take guns out of the people who could save their lives with them and put them in a criminal's hands. ( If they see a "No firearms allowed in this facility" sign on a building, they carry it inside anyway. The citizens with a permit to carry will lawfully place their handguns back in their vehicles and continue their business inside the building. They could have potentially saved themselves, but "gun control" prohibited that. )
These criminals are all mentally disturbed. Most states will do a background check (including your mental health!) and if there is a red flag, you won't get a gun. Sure, you could go buy it under the table somewhere else. When you've figured out how to fix people buying things under the table, maybe you could fix the import and sales of drugs/firearms from outside of our country. In this situation, the firearms belonged to his mother. His mother was a good person from the sounds of it, and legally owned and possessed all of her firearms. She knew how to use them, was educated, educated her family, and thought she was doing the right thing. I will be curious to see if she knew about her son's mental instability and if she did, why this whole thing was permitted to happen. I could understand if she just didn't know.
Maybe we need to work on the mental health of our country more than anything. I think that would be a good place to start.
When you're 18-19 years old, many companies are happy to offer you a credit card! If you're planning on going on a shooting spree and then killing yourself, why bother paying it back? Buy all the ammunition you want. I think your first spending limit is somewhere within $250-350. It's not unfathomable that someone could open up multiple cards and buy all the ammo they want. No offense, but they'll be dead. They don't plan on paying it back.
Meanwhile, the rest of us who use firearms for home defense, provisions (there are places where people rely solely on hunting for their meat suppy, here), etc. will suffer the price hikes in an already unpleasant economy.
There's nothing to be done that I can think of. If we add more gun control, we take guns out of the people who could save their lives with them and put them in a criminal's hands. ( If they see a "No firearms allowed in this facility" sign on a building, they carry it inside anyway. The citizens with a permit to carry will lawfully place their handguns back in their vehicles and continue their business inside the building. They could have potentially saved themselves, but "gun control" prohibited that. )
These criminals are all mentally disturbed. Most states will do a background check (including your mental health!) and if there is a red flag, you won't get a gun. Sure, you could go buy it under the table somewhere else. When you've figured out how to fix people buying things under the table, maybe you could fix the import and sales of drugs/firearms from outside of our country. In this situation, the firearms belonged to his mother. His mother was a good person from the sounds of it, and legally owned and possessed all of her firearms. She knew how to use them, was educated, educated her family, and thought she was doing the right thing. I will be curious to see if she knew about her son's mental instability and if she did, why this whole thing was permitted to happen. I could understand if she just didn't know.
Maybe we need to work on the mental health of our country more than anything. I think that would be a good place to start.
All I can do is offer surgestions from an outsiders perspective. My idea's are not perfect and I acknowledge that ^^
But something has to be done. America has the highest rate of gun related Homocides in the world, why in 2007 you had over 9484 gun related homocides. and if these mass shootings continues to be a bi weekly event like it has been lately your society will distabilize.
and I don't want that to happen, I want your country to be a safe place so I can come over for Anthrocon ^^
But something has to be done. America has the highest rate of gun related Homocides in the world, why in 2007 you had over 9484 gun related homocides. and if these mass shootings continues to be a bi weekly event like it has been lately your society will distabilize.
and I don't want that to happen, I want your country to be a safe place so I can come over for Anthrocon ^^
Er. You have to realize this isn't the norm for us. We're not a lot different. We go to work. We come home. Some of us have families, and some of us are just kids living with our parents. We come from all walks of life, just like people where you come from.
Your country isn't a safe place. My country isn't a safe place. Nowhere in the world is a safe place. But that's okay. Can we improve somehow? Sure! There is always room for improvement.
We have lots of kids who are growing up to be angry adults. We have a lot of people that don't have parents. We have a lot of people who abuse drugs (especially prescription painkillers,etc. ). We have a lot of people who suffer from mental fatigue. Our economy hasn't been the best. You put that on all those angry, hungry, hurting people and you're going to see the explosion. It's no wonder.
We have kids in orphanages who are doomed to a 2 year process if someone feels like even taking them home. We have abusive foster homes. We have a ton of lazy, entitled people. I sat and I looked at the facts for other countries. You have healthcare, you have assistance for both mental health and physical help needs. We don't have that. We have huge hospital bills that we can never repay, and we work ourselves to a boiling point where we're ready to kill ourselves or everyone around us. We die younger. We eat terrible food because it's cheaper than healthy food.
We're a prideful people, no doubt. But we're too proud to admit that we need help with something. I don't think it's a gun issue. I solemnly believe it's America's investment in its own people.
Your country isn't a safe place. My country isn't a safe place. Nowhere in the world is a safe place. But that's okay. Can we improve somehow? Sure! There is always room for improvement.
We have lots of kids who are growing up to be angry adults. We have a lot of people that don't have parents. We have a lot of people who abuse drugs (especially prescription painkillers,etc. ). We have a lot of people who suffer from mental fatigue. Our economy hasn't been the best. You put that on all those angry, hungry, hurting people and you're going to see the explosion. It's no wonder.
We have kids in orphanages who are doomed to a 2 year process if someone feels like even taking them home. We have abusive foster homes. We have a ton of lazy, entitled people. I sat and I looked at the facts for other countries. You have healthcare, you have assistance for both mental health and physical help needs. We don't have that. We have huge hospital bills that we can never repay, and we work ourselves to a boiling point where we're ready to kill ourselves or everyone around us. We die younger. We eat terrible food because it's cheaper than healthy food.
We're a prideful people, no doubt. But we're too proud to admit that we need help with something. I don't think it's a gun issue. I solemnly believe it's America's investment in its own people.
Health Care is great, you guys seriously need to impliment a similiar system or something aproximate to it. a healthy citizenship = a healthy country more or less ^^
Heh humans as a species really suck though don't we? give us a chance and we'll destroy each other, scratch the surface and our goodness and nobility bleed away like water from a punchured bottle leaving only our nasty nature behind..
Well this has made me a sad, I'm going to go hug a kitten to cheer up ^^
Heh humans as a species really suck though don't we? give us a chance and we'll destroy each other, scratch the surface and our goodness and nobility bleed away like water from a punchured bottle leaving only our nasty nature behind..
Well this has made me a sad, I'm going to go hug a kitten to cheer up ^^
We do suck, sometimes. And, sometimes, we're amazing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/.....n_2311009.html
This is a great article. It's very relevant.
Granted, I don't trust our government with our health care. Maybe if they contracted something on the private sector, it would work out. But, right now, we've got men and women who went out, fought for our country, are hurting mentally or physically, and they can't even get the help they need. What chance do normal citizens stand? (A sad fact of the matter is that we probably stand a better chance if we have the cash to pay for it, ourselves!)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/.....n_2311009.html
This is a great article. It's very relevant.
Granted, I don't trust our government with our health care. Maybe if they contracted something on the private sector, it would work out. But, right now, we've got men and women who went out, fought for our country, are hurting mentally or physically, and they can't even get the help they need. What chance do normal citizens stand? (A sad fact of the matter is that we probably stand a better chance if we have the cash to pay for it, ourselves!)
the number of gun related homicides is small compared to the number of car accidents that take lives every year, Perhaps we should ban vehicles as well. Or how about that smoking kills hundreds of thousands a year, why haven't we banned smoking then? Alcohol related deaths (drunk driving, alcohol poisoning, domestic violence) are pretty high up there as well. Why haven't we re-banned alcohol?
The fact is, all of these things are just tools and a means to an end. The true problem lies not in the object, but in the people that abuse the use of the object. In the end, it is not the car that purposely crashes or is drunk, it is the human that is controlling the vehicle. It is not the the cigarette that lights its self and smokes its self, it is the human that puts it in their own mouth, lights it, and inhales the toxins. It is not the alcohol that consumes its self and sell's its self, it is the person that bought it, consumed it, and allowed it to impair on their functions. And, it is not the gun that loads its self, aims its self, and fires its self at people, it is a person loads the gun, aims the gun, and ultimately it is a person that fires the gun at other people.
The fact is, all of these things are just tools and a means to an end. The true problem lies not in the object, but in the people that abuse the use of the object. In the end, it is not the car that purposely crashes or is drunk, it is the human that is controlling the vehicle. It is not the the cigarette that lights its self and smokes its self, it is the human that puts it in their own mouth, lights it, and inhales the toxins. It is not the alcohol that consumes its self and sell's its self, it is the person that bought it, consumed it, and allowed it to impair on their functions. And, it is not the gun that loads its self, aims its self, and fires its self at people, it is a person loads the gun, aims the gun, and ultimately it is a person that fires the gun at other people.
I don't really follow your logic I'm sorry.
Cars are made for transport, Alcohol is made for relaxation, Cigarettes are made to weed out those with suicidal tendancies. Each of these objects has an intended purpose and a negative side effect, Guns have only one purpose to make killing easy with minium effort required on the part of the handler so comparing a tool designed to do one thing to a tool designed to do other things doesn't make much sence to me I'm afraid.
Yes Ultimately it is the person not the non living weapon that is to blame, I am not saying that a non sentient piece of metal should be taken to court and put in prison over the living breathing maniac who used it. But a process needs to be put in place to at least make it more difficult for those with serious mental issues to obtain tools that make killing effortless.
I guess what fires me up the most about the whole thing is how those Right wing looneys on fox news are politicizing it. Talking about how there needs to be more guns, how there should have been guns in the school, the teachers should have had guns ect. All the while shouting out that the other side has no right to talk about it.
It is an imperfect world we live in... Still only 4 days to go right? then it'll all be over :p
Cars are made for transport, Alcohol is made for relaxation, Cigarettes are made to weed out those with suicidal tendancies. Each of these objects has an intended purpose and a negative side effect, Guns have only one purpose to make killing easy with minium effort required on the part of the handler so comparing a tool designed to do one thing to a tool designed to do other things doesn't make much sence to me I'm afraid.
Yes Ultimately it is the person not the non living weapon that is to blame, I am not saying that a non sentient piece of metal should be taken to court and put in prison over the living breathing maniac who used it. But a process needs to be put in place to at least make it more difficult for those with serious mental issues to obtain tools that make killing effortless.
I guess what fires me up the most about the whole thing is how those Right wing looneys on fox news are politicizing it. Talking about how there needs to be more guns, how there should have been guns in the school, the teachers should have had guns ect. All the while shouting out that the other side has no right to talk about it.
It is an imperfect world we live in... Still only 4 days to go right? then it'll all be over :p
Really? Cigarettes are made to prevent suicidal tendencies? lol. That's a new one. You must have magical cigarettes somewhere, because I've never heard of those.
To be fair the guns in school and well-trained staff has worked for Israel so far. :)
-Waves from the "right wing lunatic" side.-
But it's not really something I think people should be raving on about right now. We need to stop for a moment, gather our composure, and then look for solutions. We'll get it. It may take some time, but we'll get it.
To be fair the guns in school and well-trained staff has worked for Israel so far. :)
-Waves from the "right wing lunatic" side.-
But it's not really something I think people should be raving on about right now. We need to stop for a moment, gather our composure, and then look for solutions. We'll get it. It may take some time, but we'll get it.
Cigarettes, last I checked, were made also for "relaxation" just like alcohol. Both cause various health problems, and can made mental deficiencies much much worse.
Psh. You apparently have a poor perception of this country if you think we all go around brandishing firearms for fun. ;p I hope you do get to come over for Anthrocon so you can see how sadly mistaken you are.
Psh. You apparently have a poor perception of this country if you think we all go around brandishing firearms for fun. ;p I hope you do get to come over for Anthrocon so you can see how sadly mistaken you are.
What you are quoting as fact is not true! You need to check your facts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o.....ted_death_rate but if you look at the over all murder rate you find a different story here are the top 20 countries http://www.businessinsider.com/1hom.....s-2011-11?op=1
So the websites I quote are not true by virtue of disagreeing with you where as your websites are true because they support what you want them to support?
I can see this is going to devolve into one of those kind of conversations if we continue and I have no interest in a flame war.
I wish you and your country the best of luck and I hope you manage to avoid the next lunitic with a gun who comes through your area. Be well.
I can see this is going to devolve into one of those kind of conversations if we continue and I have no interest in a flame war.
I wish you and your country the best of luck and I hope you manage to avoid the next lunitic with a gun who comes through your area. Be well.
I too would like to know what you think "reasonable gun control or regulation" is.
If you say guns are the problem.... Just look at Switzerland where every family is armed with semi and fully Auto guns... if you use that logic there would be a very high homicide rate. Homicides are .58 per 100,000 people and this is a country armed to the teeth.
If you say guns are the problem.... Just look at Switzerland where every family is armed with semi and fully Auto guns... if you use that logic there would be a very high homicide rate. Homicides are .58 per 100,000 people and this is a country armed to the teeth.
I'm not going to echo the "reasonable" question asked by others, though the thought did occur to me.
However, I will note that those who want private gun ownership to be banned aren't interested in "reasonable" (or define the term as "agreeing with me", which isn't what it actually means by any stretch of the imagination in spite of commonly being used that way in any number of situations), and anything that those in favor of private gun ownership cede in an effort to be "reasonable" are almost always used as another step by the anti-gun crowd towards completely banning firearms. "Give and take" should not mean "pro-gun crowd gives, anti-gun crowd takes", but that's almost always how it works out, leading many of those who are serious about private gun ownership to resist all restrictions/regulations on firearm ownership out of what's effectively legislative self-defense.
However, I will note that those who want private gun ownership to be banned aren't interested in "reasonable" (or define the term as "agreeing with me", which isn't what it actually means by any stretch of the imagination in spite of commonly being used that way in any number of situations), and anything that those in favor of private gun ownership cede in an effort to be "reasonable" are almost always used as another step by the anti-gun crowd towards completely banning firearms. "Give and take" should not mean "pro-gun crowd gives, anti-gun crowd takes", but that's almost always how it works out, leading many of those who are serious about private gun ownership to resist all restrictions/regulations on firearm ownership out of what's effectively legislative self-defense.
As an outsider looking in at how your country handles guns, I have to say it looks like the pro guns side wins more than the anti gun side when ever these arguements come up. Perhaps I'm not seeing the full story not physicaly being there myself but compared to other countries it seems like the U.S. has some of the most lax gun laws in the world.
(Trying again, the hidden comment is a screw-up on my part.)
That's a relatively recent development, actually. The decades prior to the last two, it was the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment that was losing ground against more restrictive gun legislation.
Passage of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, highly restricting "assault weapons" (mostly defined by aesthetic features with no to little effect on functionality; full-auto weapons are already highly restricted due to the 1934 National Firearms Act) was arguably what started to turn the issue, as the next election (the 1994 mid-term elections in Congress, which happened about a month after the AWB was signed into law) a lot of those who voted for the AWB were voted out of office in large part due to that vote. The inability of anti-gun congresspeople to extend the AWB (which was set to expire in 10 years unless further legislation continued it) in spite of multiple attempts at it further signaled a "sea change", so to speak, in regards to legislation attacking private firearm ownership.
Where it really started rolling, though, was the 2008 US Supreme Court ruling of District of Columbia (Washington, DC) vs Heller, which ruled that the 2nd Amendment was an individual right (anti-gun people often argue that the "militia clause" at the beginning of the 2nd means it's a collective right held by people serving in the National Guard and similar organizations, not an individual right held by people regardless of their military status) kicked DC's highly restrictive gun laws in the proverbial nuts, with the 2010 ruling in McDonald vs Chicago that the 2nd also applied to the states (not just the Federal government, as per the Heller ruling), under the 14th Amendment's "equal protection" clause.
That's a relatively recent development, actually. The decades prior to the last two, it was the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment that was losing ground against more restrictive gun legislation.
Passage of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, highly restricting "assault weapons" (mostly defined by aesthetic features with no to little effect on functionality; full-auto weapons are already highly restricted due to the 1934 National Firearms Act) was arguably what started to turn the issue, as the next election (the 1994 mid-term elections in Congress, which happened about a month after the AWB was signed into law) a lot of those who voted for the AWB were voted out of office in large part due to that vote. The inability of anti-gun congresspeople to extend the AWB (which was set to expire in 10 years unless further legislation continued it) in spite of multiple attempts at it further signaled a "sea change", so to speak, in regards to legislation attacking private firearm ownership.
Where it really started rolling, though, was the 2008 US Supreme Court ruling of District of Columbia (Washington, DC) vs Heller, which ruled that the 2nd Amendment was an individual right (anti-gun people often argue that the "militia clause" at the beginning of the 2nd means it's a collective right held by people serving in the National Guard and similar organizations, not an individual right held by people regardless of their military status) kicked DC's highly restrictive gun laws in the proverbial nuts, with the 2010 ruling in McDonald vs Chicago that the 2nd also applied to the states (not just the Federal government, as per the Heller ruling), under the 14th Amendment's "equal protection" clause.
Reasonable gun control according to most of these people is banning "features" like flash hiders and pistol grips on rifles. Neither of which would have made any difference. Banning large magazines is stupid too because of recent changes in techonology. Saw some guy pointing out on CNN comments that anyone can now print forbidden gun parts using 3D printers. Shit people have even made parts of the receiver out of 3D printed plastic now. I can see someone making a few .22 zip guns out of these in the future as well. They might fail after a few shots, but all you need to do is carry 5 or 6 of them and keep one for yourself. The real solution isn't banning firearm features or even firearms entirely but to address the mental health and general hate problem out there. People wig out and feel the need to make a name for themselves on the news. Take the fame out of this kind of thing and people will be less likely to do this kind of shit.
I was not aware 3d printers were a house hold technology in the states yet. I thought they were still in the testing and experimental phase. and not yet up tp printing something as heavy and durable as a weapon magazine?
Well I disagree with you on the large magazines point but I still respect your opinion on the matter. And I agree that the mental health and hatred problems need to be addressed. As a friend of mine pointed out to me last night my country has very lax gun laws as well but last year we only had 10 gun related deaths where as the states has had over 9000 (meme not intended)
So something has to change I guess.
Well I disagree with you on the large magazines point but I still respect your opinion on the matter. And I agree that the mental health and hatred problems need to be addressed. As a friend of mine pointed out to me last night my country has very lax gun laws as well but last year we only had 10 gun related deaths where as the states has had over 9000 (meme not intended)
So something has to change I guess.
On one side you have idiots like the ones you drew about, Rabbi Tom.
BUT...
There are total nutcases on the other side also.
Larry Pratt at "Gun Owners Of America," (a neo-Nazi connected group) wants to arm all teachers.
Ever see your average kindergarten teacher? Usually it's an elderly lady, or girl fresh out of college.
And Bryan Fischer and Mike Huckabee say it's because "God was taken out of the schools" that the massacre happened.
Oh, and of course that Phelps bitch tweeted that she and the Westboro Baptist "Church" is going to picket the school and the funerals.
BUT...
There are total nutcases on the other side also.
Larry Pratt at "Gun Owners Of America," (a neo-Nazi connected group) wants to arm all teachers.
Ever see your average kindergarten teacher? Usually it's an elderly lady, or girl fresh out of college.
And Bryan Fischer and Mike Huckabee say it's because "God was taken out of the schools" that the massacre happened.
Oh, and of course that Phelps bitch tweeted that she and the Westboro Baptist "Church" is going to picket the school and the funerals.
You don't need to arm all teachers, but having an armed barney to patrol the school and on hand in case of an incident would certainly be prudent.
The "god taken out of school thing" makes me roll my eyes. Its like yeah people, lets go back to the original reason we used to hate and kill each other, who pasty fatbeard is the coolest one in town.
Requiring a gun safe and that all but one firearm (with one ore two mags) is kept locked up would be ok with me. Hard to enforce, but still. Requiring FFL process for even private sale I would be ok with too. I've seen some very scary people trying to guy guns at gun shows before. Friend if mine was trying to sell an AK style pistol and a bunch of people who gave me really bad vibes came up to enquire. We quoted them an insane price and they went away and I saw several other guys at the tables flat out refuse to sell to them. But I wouldn't be surprised if they walked way with a piece anyway at some point that day.
I don't have a gun safe (live alone with no unsupervised access to the place) but I am getting one after this and keeping all but my sleeper piece locked up.
The "god taken out of school thing" makes me roll my eyes. Its like yeah people, lets go back to the original reason we used to hate and kill each other, who pasty fatbeard is the coolest one in town.
Requiring a gun safe and that all but one firearm (with one ore two mags) is kept locked up would be ok with me. Hard to enforce, but still. Requiring FFL process for even private sale I would be ok with too. I've seen some very scary people trying to guy guns at gun shows before. Friend if mine was trying to sell an AK style pistol and a bunch of people who gave me really bad vibes came up to enquire. We quoted them an insane price and they went away and I saw several other guys at the tables flat out refuse to sell to them. But I wouldn't be surprised if they walked way with a piece anyway at some point that day.
I don't have a gun safe (live alone with no unsupervised access to the place) but I am getting one after this and keeping all but my sleeper piece locked up.
Love that line! I agree that ultimately it's a mental health problem that needs to be addressed. Here's a great essay that sums it up nicely:
http://www.thisistrue.com/blog-thin.....t_newtown.html
http://www.thisistrue.com/blog-thin.....t_newtown.html
Gun bumpers don't think like that
I'm sad rabbi's. First thought is to ridicule the majority opinion then think about the 30 dead children.
Shamr is not a think for his kind
but whatever at least the guns used weren't automatic or that could have meant a real dialogue huh
Solutions that work? The assault weapons ban worked rather well.
Gun owners could still own nice weapons. Hunters have never Bern affected by asset bans.
the Brady bill worked well when it wad enforced. The assorted hand gun bans.
We have had working laws that worked fine until Bush destroyed them all.
You want to end tbr cause of these actions? Ban glen beck and fox news, and rush limbaugh.
banning guns wont do as much as making their brand of hate and fear speech illegal.
I could live with the insane gun laws we have if those sick minds were not on every dammed Tv and radio station.
I'm sad rabbi's. First thought is to ridicule the majority opinion then think about the 30 dead children.
Shamr is not a think for his kind
but whatever at least the guns used weren't automatic or that could have meant a real dialogue huh
Solutions that work? The assault weapons ban worked rather well.
Gun owners could still own nice weapons. Hunters have never Bern affected by asset bans.
the Brady bill worked well when it wad enforced. The assorted hand gun bans.
We have had working laws that worked fine until Bush destroyed them all.
You want to end tbr cause of these actions? Ban glen beck and fox news, and rush limbaugh.
banning guns wont do as much as making their brand of hate and fear speech illegal.
I could live with the insane gun laws we have if those sick minds were not on every dammed Tv and radio station.
If the majority thinks that everyone with a gun is a murderer, then they are flat out stupid. It is an unfair generalization. This message was portrayed here.
I have known the Rabbi for quite some time, and I am going to go ahead and put all my credibility on the line and say that his first thought was not to fucking ridicule the other side of the gun debate. I know he is a father. I know there HAD to be some inward reflection. Maybe he was too uncomfortable to even post that? Oh, but you're too busy getting your snappy little comment in and bashing a news station you don't care for. (There are at least two other channels you're more than welcome to watch!)
The mental health of our country seriously needs to be looked at. More laws take guns out of the hands of people who will use them for good and leave them vulnerable to those who will use them for evil.
And if you're so upset about this, you're just no better than the Rabbi in your own mind.. Rather than just posting something of a remorseful message about the whole thing, you're furthering your anti-fox news agenda and "sharpening your political knives on the backs of dead children. "
You go out and memorialize this. Make something for them. A journal entry, artwork, music, whatever you do, write to their families or to their city to let them know you are with them.
I have known the Rabbi for quite some time, and I am going to go ahead and put all my credibility on the line and say that his first thought was not to fucking ridicule the other side of the gun debate. I know he is a father. I know there HAD to be some inward reflection. Maybe he was too uncomfortable to even post that? Oh, but you're too busy getting your snappy little comment in and bashing a news station you don't care for. (There are at least two other channels you're more than welcome to watch!)
The mental health of our country seriously needs to be looked at. More laws take guns out of the hands of people who will use them for good and leave them vulnerable to those who will use them for evil.
And if you're so upset about this, you're just no better than the Rabbi in your own mind.. Rather than just posting something of a remorseful message about the whole thing, you're furthering your anti-fox news agenda and "sharpening your political knives on the backs of dead children. "
You go out and memorialize this. Make something for them. A journal entry, artwork, music, whatever you do, write to their families or to their city to let them know you are with them.
We need to change the way our culture thinks and acts around mental illness instead of trying to ignore or bury it. If people were actually able to get affordable help when they needed it, if odd behaviors were addressed instead of shrugged off, maybe it would make a difference in cutting down on the number of people who snap violently and hurt others.
I'm a Virginia Tech alum.
I was still living in the Blacksburg area when we had the shooting on campus. My husband was working for the university. He was supposed to be IN the building where the shooter went on a rampage that day.
Cho slipped through the cracks of the mental health system. If he'd been treated appropriately, he never would have had a chance to hurt anyone else, but he wasn't.
Now when I talk about my alma mater, the first thing people think of is the April 16th massacre, not how great a school it is or how strong the academics are. Because of one fucked up kid whose warning signs weren't taken seriously until it was too late, my university is permanently linked with tragedy.
I don't blame the guns, or the gun laws. I'm a gun owner myself. A gun is a tool, nothing more. I don't think for one second that had Cho not been able to acquire firearms, he would have balked at picking another weapon. Maybe he'd have picked up a bow instead. Maybe he'd have settled on knives like the kid who, a year later, cut off someone's head in the cafe in the graduate student union. Maybe he'd have gone for explosives. Pipe bombs are easy to build, and you can get all the parts you need at the hardware store without even a background check. Maybe he'd have killed less people than he did with his guns, but he still would have killed people. He was determined to kill people. He chained the doors of the building from the inside to keep anyone from getting in or out until he was through. His mental breakdown was the root of the problem. The media makes up most of the rest. Every time something like this happens, the killer becomes an instant world-wide celebrity. Fifteen minutes of glorious posthumous fame. Months or years spent analyzing their twisted motivations, and blaming every convenient outlet except the actual underlying causes.
Don't ignore mental illness.
If your friend says they're stressed, they feel like they're going to snap, don't joke about it. Talk to them about getting help. Do what you can to encourage and support them, especially in their time of need. We are our own first line of defense. If we help each other shoulder our burdens, we minimize the chances of distressed, ill people slipping through the cracks and injuring themselves and others. Talk about mental illness. Don't shun or shame people. Don't pretend it doesn't exist.
I'm a Virginia Tech alum.
I was still living in the Blacksburg area when we had the shooting on campus. My husband was working for the university. He was supposed to be IN the building where the shooter went on a rampage that day.
Cho slipped through the cracks of the mental health system. If he'd been treated appropriately, he never would have had a chance to hurt anyone else, but he wasn't.
Now when I talk about my alma mater, the first thing people think of is the April 16th massacre, not how great a school it is or how strong the academics are. Because of one fucked up kid whose warning signs weren't taken seriously until it was too late, my university is permanently linked with tragedy.
I don't blame the guns, or the gun laws. I'm a gun owner myself. A gun is a tool, nothing more. I don't think for one second that had Cho not been able to acquire firearms, he would have balked at picking another weapon. Maybe he'd have picked up a bow instead. Maybe he'd have settled on knives like the kid who, a year later, cut off someone's head in the cafe in the graduate student union. Maybe he'd have gone for explosives. Pipe bombs are easy to build, and you can get all the parts you need at the hardware store without even a background check. Maybe he'd have killed less people than he did with his guns, but he still would have killed people. He was determined to kill people. He chained the doors of the building from the inside to keep anyone from getting in or out until he was through. His mental breakdown was the root of the problem. The media makes up most of the rest. Every time something like this happens, the killer becomes an instant world-wide celebrity. Fifteen minutes of glorious posthumous fame. Months or years spent analyzing their twisted motivations, and blaming every convenient outlet except the actual underlying causes.
Don't ignore mental illness.
If your friend says they're stressed, they feel like they're going to snap, don't joke about it. Talk to them about getting help. Do what you can to encourage and support them, especially in their time of need. We are our own first line of defense. If we help each other shoulder our burdens, we minimize the chances of distressed, ill people slipping through the cracks and injuring themselves and others. Talk about mental illness. Don't shun or shame people. Don't pretend it doesn't exist.
Even if guns get banned officially, people with enough criminal energy and the money will be able to get fireweapons through other ways, Assault Rifle are banned in most parts of western europe and still criminals are armed with former East Block Weapons like several AK Types, or SMGs like the VZ. 61 or the PM 63 wich are perfect when it comes to carry a weapon hidden.
It is not right to put all gun owners under general suspicion to be a criminal.
And even if somebody is unable to buy a gun, the past proved countless times that human intellect is able to cover the gap of a missing handgun by using other, sometimes selve made weapons.
In west germany of the early 60´s, a mentally Ill man attacks kids at a school with a selfmade flamethrower and molotov cocktails.
I am not sure how hard it is for a mentally ill, or a mentally handicapped person it is to buy a firearm, so I can make a proper judgement in that case.
It is not right to put all gun owners under general suspicion to be a criminal.
And even if somebody is unable to buy a gun, the past proved countless times that human intellect is able to cover the gap of a missing handgun by using other, sometimes selve made weapons.
In west germany of the early 60´s, a mentally Ill man attacks kids at a school with a selfmade flamethrower and molotov cocktails.
I am not sure how hard it is for a mentally ill, or a mentally handicapped person it is to buy a firearm, so I can make a proper judgement in that case.
well I guess this skinny little fuck could of killed 20 children and 6 adults just as easily with a stick,it'slike not any adults like the principal who had the courage to lunge against this coward carrying a a tool designed to kill more efficiently then a pointed stick....would have not been able to stop him.....
do you not see the silliness in comparing a pointed stick to a firearm?
do you not see the silliness in comparing a pointed stick to a firearm?
my question was would he have been effective with a pointed stick in killing as much people as he did with what he really had ? maybe even a crossbow. Considering many of the victims children were shot point blank mutlple times,
why is that in these cases all acknowledgements to how efficient these tools are to killing then any other household object are suddenly forgotten and on purpose.
look at the picture of the little fuck even if he had a bat, one if not a whole group of adults ready to protect children would have disabled him(just as in flight 93 when the passaners overan the highjackers armed with boxcutters and a fire hatchet and mace.,.....a gun is designed so that even weaklings like Lanza can deal more damage with minimal physical effort .
why is that in these cases all acknowledgements to how efficient these tools are to killing then any other household object are suddenly forgotten and on purpose.
look at the picture of the little fuck even if he had a bat, one if not a whole group of adults ready to protect children would have disabled him(just as in flight 93 when the passaners overan the highjackers armed with boxcutters and a fire hatchet and mace.,.....a gun is designed so that even weaklings like Lanza can deal more damage with minimal physical effort .
I do not normally add to a thread this long (get's lost in teh replies, and I may repeat things already said because I did not read them all) but in this case, I wanna support RT.
As a veteran of the U.S. Army who went to places that (even if Temporarily) BANNED guns.... I would have to give some examples of Banning laws that did NOT work
Ban Alcohol
Ban illegal drug use
Ban explosives
If we were to pass any law, I think there should be a law passed making it illegal to shoot kindergartners with high powered rifles! Oh wait...we HAVE that law. Why did it not work? Because only law abiding citizens OBEY the law.
WHY do we hold average people to a HIGHER standard then we hold our police officers?
People also "demonize" guns, it is perfectly OK to go into a war with Muslim extremists and say "do not demonize them, not ALL Muslims are bad!" (Which is true by the way) but Gun = BAD (in some peoples minds)
Let me state some examples where children were killed WITHOUT guns. MASS killings
The Chechen rebels BLEW UP an entire school with explosives (Lets ban dynamite)
Timothy McVeigh- Blew up the Murrough Bld with children in it (Ban Fertilizer and diesel fuel)
Cars kill THOUSANDS of kids each year (ban cars)
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics 1,000,000 children are physically abused ever YEAR in the U.W. Alone 9doesn't even make the NEWS)
Zimbabwe- Shamans tell AIDS infected males the ONLY way to cure themselves is to rape a virgin and get virgin blood on their penis, resulting in a 3 day old baby girl being brutally raped to death (Again did not make the news)
My question? Why do you give EVERYONE the right to be an ass hole..but want to tell ME I do not haveteh right to carry even though *I* have PROVEN I am responsible?
would YOU have liked it as a Kid if your parents had said "well your SIBLING MIGHT misuse a car so NO car for YOU either?
*sighs*
As a veteran of the U.S. Army who went to places that (even if Temporarily) BANNED guns.... I would have to give some examples of Banning laws that did NOT work
Ban Alcohol
Ban illegal drug use
Ban explosives
If we were to pass any law, I think there should be a law passed making it illegal to shoot kindergartners with high powered rifles! Oh wait...we HAVE that law. Why did it not work? Because only law abiding citizens OBEY the law.
WHY do we hold average people to a HIGHER standard then we hold our police officers?
People also "demonize" guns, it is perfectly OK to go into a war with Muslim extremists and say "do not demonize them, not ALL Muslims are bad!" (Which is true by the way) but Gun = BAD (in some peoples minds)
Let me state some examples where children were killed WITHOUT guns. MASS killings
The Chechen rebels BLEW UP an entire school with explosives (Lets ban dynamite)
Timothy McVeigh- Blew up the Murrough Bld with children in it (Ban Fertilizer and diesel fuel)
Cars kill THOUSANDS of kids each year (ban cars)
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics 1,000,000 children are physically abused ever YEAR in the U.W. Alone 9doesn't even make the NEWS)
Zimbabwe- Shamans tell AIDS infected males the ONLY way to cure themselves is to rape a virgin and get virgin blood on their penis, resulting in a 3 day old baby girl being brutally raped to death (Again did not make the news)
My question? Why do you give EVERYONE the right to be an ass hole..but want to tell ME I do not haveteh right to carry even though *I* have PROVEN I am responsible?
would YOU have liked it as a Kid if your parents had said "well your SIBLING MIGHT misuse a car so NO car for YOU either?
*sighs*
lemme get this strait... some F-ing moron walked up to am ARMED MAN and started yelling at you about being a murder...
And pray tell what was supposed to keep her alive if she had been correct?
you know, if Pro-Gunners were as mean evil and violent as Anti-gunners think we are... there wouldn't BE any more anti-gunners.
it's a thought, an entertaining thought the more I think about it... but not one that I would pursue.
And pray tell what was supposed to keep her alive if she had been correct?
you know, if Pro-Gunners were as mean evil and violent as Anti-gunners think we are... there wouldn't BE any more anti-gunners.
it's a thought, an entertaining thought the more I think about it... but not one that I would pursue.
It's hard to watch the news as a gun owner right now for me, so much more anti-gun than pro. One interesting fact that seems to be glossed over: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162.....ontrol-action/ About half-way through this article CBS reported that the .223 rifle was in the suspects car, not on him.
I was going to post this as a response to someone, but felt that it needed to be stand alone...so...
Part of the solution is to bring to light the FACTS about gun ownership. You want a Fully Automatic Assault weapon? Better be prepared to shell out at least $25,000 for permit and a gun that's probably worn out. Why should we pass ANOTHER law...it's still illegal to commit murder, steal, and even possess a weapon within at least 500 yards of a school and other government offices. There are over 33,000 fireams laws in the US; federal and state.
You want to deal with the situation? Address the CAUSES...not the tools. Disarm the US populace and will the Police surrender THEIR Machine guns? Seriously doubt it, since a number of agencies have TANKS! Hell, Mayor Bloomberg in NYC has bragged about being able to shoot down airliners now!
How about address how a number of anti-depressants prescribed to these nuts have serious side effects like...oh...VIOLENCE and more depression? Sorry...that would admit that the FDA was wrong...can't have that.
Seems that we forget about the other aspects of a number of shootings..like explosives. Columbine couldn't be entered for a while afterwards because they found bombs. Aurora CO shooter's apartment? Freaked out the police and FBI agents due to the complexity. But everyone focuses on the GUN. We're lucky that we haven't had any "radical" factions do like they did in Russia and took control of a school....over 300 dead in that one.
People seriously are out of touch with reality if they think that the police CAN protect them. As a former Military Police officer, and knowing a number of retired and active police officers; they would do anything to protect people in danger. But the fact is that WE CAN'T BE EVERYWHERE! Additionally, the Supreme Court ruled that Police Departments have NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to protect you...that was in the mid 1800's and upheld as recently as 2006. Therefore, the sayings, "When seconds count...the police are minutes away." and "I carry a gun because I can't carry a Cop."
But the streets will run red with blood...etc, ad nauseum. Sorry, if you look at the history of the old west, town militias were commonplace, and it was expected that if the town was in danger, everyone did their part... . Being called "Yellow" was a serious insult.
Solutions? Stop glamorizing murder and death. They put "Ratings" on these video games...start enforcing it! There's no reason a 12 year old should be playing "Call of Duty." I've had 10 year olds come into the gun shop I work at that KNOW some of these guns on SIGHT! Treat murderers as murderers and not as celebrities. The ONLY thing I would demand is that people go through a mandatory course on firearms safety, that shows photographs of crime scenes to drive home the point that if used wrongly, this could be the result. They used to show movies in Driver's Ed to...ahem..."drive home" what can happen if you're stupid. They don't do that anymore....to "traumatizing." Really?
The talking point thrown about recently is "A discussion on common sense gun control". That's politically correct speak for tax the living $hit out of guns, ammo, reloading components, and so on, demand exorbitant fees to register each and every one, regulate what you can own until that is deemed a threat to "Public safety", and finally take everything out of the hands of the peons...I mean...Citizens. Yet...we're arming the Rebels in Syria...and I don't think we're sending over BB guns.
I could go on and on, but the point being: We have thousands of pages of detailed legislation outlining gun ownership, use, storage, disposal, consequences of use, arbitration and bad things still happen. Mind you, you can substitute drugs, automobiles, porn, alcohol, and rubber duckies for guns and the same would be true.
What happened this Friday was heinous, deplorable, disgusting, and enraging. And even though I have a two nieces and a nephew the same age, and I'm still seriously upset at what happened, I'm going to sound like a cold, unfeeling A-hole by saying "Bad $hit happens. I'm sorry." Comfort and console the familes, scream, rage, vent if you have to, I know I am. Then collect your thoughts and act on facts. Some of the worst memories I have is having to deal with Domestic Violence calls where children are present.
As the intellectually elite would have you believe; we're not the noble and enlightened beings that are morally superior to all lesser evolved life forms. We're still animals, slightly higher on the evolutionary food chain, and barely on the cusp of civilization. Believe me...a little...and I do mean "little" paranoia goes a long way.
Part of the solution is to bring to light the FACTS about gun ownership. You want a Fully Automatic Assault weapon? Better be prepared to shell out at least $25,000 for permit and a gun that's probably worn out. Why should we pass ANOTHER law...it's still illegal to commit murder, steal, and even possess a weapon within at least 500 yards of a school and other government offices. There are over 33,000 fireams laws in the US; federal and state.
You want to deal with the situation? Address the CAUSES...not the tools. Disarm the US populace and will the Police surrender THEIR Machine guns? Seriously doubt it, since a number of agencies have TANKS! Hell, Mayor Bloomberg in NYC has bragged about being able to shoot down airliners now!
How about address how a number of anti-depressants prescribed to these nuts have serious side effects like...oh...VIOLENCE and more depression? Sorry...that would admit that the FDA was wrong...can't have that.
Seems that we forget about the other aspects of a number of shootings..like explosives. Columbine couldn't be entered for a while afterwards because they found bombs. Aurora CO shooter's apartment? Freaked out the police and FBI agents due to the complexity. But everyone focuses on the GUN. We're lucky that we haven't had any "radical" factions do like they did in Russia and took control of a school....over 300 dead in that one.
People seriously are out of touch with reality if they think that the police CAN protect them. As a former Military Police officer, and knowing a number of retired and active police officers; they would do anything to protect people in danger. But the fact is that WE CAN'T BE EVERYWHERE! Additionally, the Supreme Court ruled that Police Departments have NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to protect you...that was in the mid 1800's and upheld as recently as 2006. Therefore, the sayings, "When seconds count...the police are minutes away." and "I carry a gun because I can't carry a Cop."
But the streets will run red with blood...etc, ad nauseum. Sorry, if you look at the history of the old west, town militias were commonplace, and it was expected that if the town was in danger, everyone did their part... . Being called "Yellow" was a serious insult.
Solutions? Stop glamorizing murder and death. They put "Ratings" on these video games...start enforcing it! There's no reason a 12 year old should be playing "Call of Duty." I've had 10 year olds come into the gun shop I work at that KNOW some of these guns on SIGHT! Treat murderers as murderers and not as celebrities. The ONLY thing I would demand is that people go through a mandatory course on firearms safety, that shows photographs of crime scenes to drive home the point that if used wrongly, this could be the result. They used to show movies in Driver's Ed to...ahem..."drive home" what can happen if you're stupid. They don't do that anymore....to "traumatizing." Really?
The talking point thrown about recently is "A discussion on common sense gun control". That's politically correct speak for tax the living $hit out of guns, ammo, reloading components, and so on, demand exorbitant fees to register each and every one, regulate what you can own until that is deemed a threat to "Public safety", and finally take everything out of the hands of the peons...I mean...Citizens. Yet...we're arming the Rebels in Syria...and I don't think we're sending over BB guns.
I could go on and on, but the point being: We have thousands of pages of detailed legislation outlining gun ownership, use, storage, disposal, consequences of use, arbitration and bad things still happen. Mind you, you can substitute drugs, automobiles, porn, alcohol, and rubber duckies for guns and the same would be true.
What happened this Friday was heinous, deplorable, disgusting, and enraging. And even though I have a two nieces and a nephew the same age, and I'm still seriously upset at what happened, I'm going to sound like a cold, unfeeling A-hole by saying "Bad $hit happens. I'm sorry." Comfort and console the familes, scream, rage, vent if you have to, I know I am. Then collect your thoughts and act on facts. Some of the worst memories I have is having to deal with Domestic Violence calls where children are present.
As the intellectually elite would have you believe; we're not the noble and enlightened beings that are morally superior to all lesser evolved life forms. We're still animals, slightly higher on the evolutionary food chain, and barely on the cusp of civilization. Believe me...a little...and I do mean "little" paranoia goes a long way.
In regards to and reinforcing your comment about things already being illegal, one count from a poster on another forum put the number of offenses by the CT shooter at 47 in total, from getting the first gun to his ultimate death.
If the possibility of breaking the law 47 times wasn't enough to dissuade the shooter, why would 48 times have any more effect?
If the possibility of breaking the law 47 times wasn't enough to dissuade the shooter, why would 48 times have any more effect?
Guns are tools. They have no more morality than a rock you find on the ground, even if at one time that rock was the one that may have previously triggered a deadly avalanche.
A gun, in and of itself, can do nothing. It takes a thinking mind behind the trigger to kill, barring accidents (which are more often than not the mind in question not thinking, but it's still not that the gun is jumping up off the table and going on a 3 state killing spree or whatnot).
A gun, in and of itself, can do nothing. It takes a thinking mind behind the trigger to kill, barring accidents (which are more often than not the mind in question not thinking, but it's still not that the gun is jumping up off the table and going on a 3 state killing spree or whatnot).
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than all 7 (or 8, can't remember right now) of my guns combined.
http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/Desi.....KENNEDY450.jpg
http://www.foulmouthshirts.com/Desi.....KENNEDY450.jpg
First off, glad you could finally use your favorite zinger.
I heard about that shooting and like you I was shocked and devastated. These people really are a bunch of fucking idiots if they think anyone with a gun is a crazy gunman.
I tell you what though, I respect this nations 2nd Amendment right to bare arms and I'm not giving that up without a fight.
Btw, what kind of guns were you selling?
I heard about that shooting and like you I was shocked and devastated. These people really are a bunch of fucking idiots if they think anyone with a gun is a crazy gunman.
I tell you what though, I respect this nations 2nd Amendment right to bare arms and I'm not giving that up without a fight.
Btw, what kind of guns were you selling?
School shootings are a tragedy, but many Americans seem to want to find a scapegoat to the problem rather than look at the root causes. I remember back with Columbine many folks were quick to blame first-person shooters and M-rated games in general. Blame has also been put on Rock n' Roll music, comic books, and whatnot. Shame, really. Nice zing, though.
well even if u ban all guns doesn't mean they would be gone look at the black market and that and gangs take guns from the ones who are of sane mind can protect from these incidents; however, wouldn't eliminate it either. But there needs to be more gun controls like mental health screens before getting a firearm and none of this 30-50 round mags and fully autos unless u are licensed and been screened that u are of full mentality/sanity. I do feel mortified at the attack on an elementary school like any school but these kids were well children and hopefully there can maybe be in time online schools where u can be at home to do schooling or actual armed police officers at all schools from pre-k to 12 to colleges to help minimize these kind of attacks. Could even house a police officer on the school grounds too but it would be costly but another deterrent from these things. RIP to those who lost their lives and those who will be hurting from this attack and my heart goes to the families.
Generally the same people that are against any sort of gun regulation are also the ones who don't want any sort of 'socialized' healthcare, which guarantees people with serious mental health problems don't get treatment. The combination of untreated mental illness and readily available guns makes incidents like this inevitable. True, most people with severe mental problems just lay in their own filth on Skid Row and aren't dangerous, but there are some who are. We might as well admit we're willing to accept things like this as unavoidable collateral damage in exchange for the right to have guns and not to treat anyone with mental health issues, just like we quietly accept the yearly carnage on our highways as acceptable collateral loss for the right for everyone to have a car. After all, virtually everyone knows someone who was killed or seriously hurt in a car accident. I sure do.
I guess my thing is that the whole free healthcare might not be so bad if the goverment wasn't responsible. I have seen first hand the BS that the department of Veteran's Affairs does for our men and women who come back more hurt than we'll ever realize. (Both in body and in mind.) Some of them can't even get the help that our poorest citizens can be afforded. Something does need to be done, but I have no idea on how to go about it.
This was really the straw that broke the camel's back, in a sense. I don't like the idea of the socialized health care, because I worry it will be somehow worse. It might be okay if we're able to open more clinics. I think all of our health a stress that we, as a nation, just can't deal with anymore.
This was really the straw that broke the camel's back, in a sense. I don't like the idea of the socialized health care, because I worry it will be somehow worse. It might be okay if we're able to open more clinics. I think all of our health a stress that we, as a nation, just can't deal with anymore.
What it inspires is terror. Terror, and righteous caution.
What you've done is you've admitted that you are mentally unstable, own guns, and that you refuse to give them up despite whatever condition you're in. The fact that you're for or against public health is made moot by the sheer, disgusting weight of that statement. You're like a kid with aspergers. You really don't understand just how sick that statement is. It's not funny. It's scary. And it goes a long way to justify the measures of the left.
What you've done is you've admitted that you are mentally unstable, own guns, and that you refuse to give them up despite whatever condition you're in. The fact that you're for or against public health is made moot by the sheer, disgusting weight of that statement. You're like a kid with aspergers. You really don't understand just how sick that statement is. It's not funny. It's scary. And it goes a long way to justify the measures of the left.
My firearms instructor read up on the recent Clackamas Town Center Mall shooting in Oregon.
His commentary "When confronted with tactical opposition, gunmen take their own life."
See relative article: http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-m.....183593571.html
Also a few sites have links to a picture of an Israeli school teacher carrying a rifle in a sling ushering her students into class... Sad when you consider the statistics they're attaching to it. 8 school shootings there in the last 10 years, vs. 323 in the US. Not sure about the facts behind those numbers, not even really certain where to go to get a check. My Israeli friend is already asleep.
But, when I stepped up to my tactical lessons (months before purchasing my own pistol) the 'crowded food court, are you prepared to act now in defense of yourself and others.' scenario was drilled into the reflexes I started building up.
-Zarnth
His commentary "When confronted with tactical opposition, gunmen take their own life."
See relative article: http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-m.....183593571.html
Also a few sites have links to a picture of an Israeli school teacher carrying a rifle in a sling ushering her students into class... Sad when you consider the statistics they're attaching to it. 8 school shootings there in the last 10 years, vs. 323 in the US. Not sure about the facts behind those numbers, not even really certain where to go to get a check. My Israeli friend is already asleep.
But, when I stepped up to my tactical lessons (months before purchasing my own pistol) the 'crowded food court, are you prepared to act now in defense of yourself and others.' scenario was drilled into the reflexes I started building up.
-Zarnth
I put this on my Facebook after all the idiots on there started ranting about guns and banning them this past week, so i thought I'd offer my findings to the folks reading this journal as well. These are all facts... not opinions or skewed numbers, from the CDC and other like organizations.
"...the number of handguns used in crime (approximately 7,500 per year) is very small compared to the approximately 70 million handguns in the United States (i.e., 0.011%)"
Committee on Law and Justice (2004). "Chapter 4". Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. National Academy of Science. ISBN 0-309-09124-1.
In 2009, an average of 93 people were killed EVERY DAY due to motor vehicle related injuries. On the other hand, 85 people died every day that same year due to firearms... HOWEVER, 55.6% OF THOSE DEATHS WERE SUICIDES. That means 47.26 people died every day because they were shot by someone else. KEEP IN MIND, that is including all deaths caused by firearms of all sorts, including criminals that were shot either by police, other government agencies or civilians defending themselves.
Also, of the 7,500 guns used in violent crimes in 2009, only about 14% were used by the original and legal owner, meaning the rest were bought privately, stolen, smuggled in, made or traded for drugs.
Please examine this image.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.....armsources.svg
If anyone wants to talk about facts... there's a few facts. Think they're illegitimate? Go tell that to the CDC, Bureau of Justice, United States Census Bureau, National Bureau of Economic Research, etc.
In light of the recent events, I'm not condoning that anyone be let off the hook for committing such a terrible act. However, banning guns of any kind isn't going to keep criminals from getting hold of them. Remember prohibition?
"...the number of handguns used in crime (approximately 7,500 per year) is very small compared to the approximately 70 million handguns in the United States (i.e., 0.011%)"
Committee on Law and Justice (2004). "Chapter 4". Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. National Academy of Science. ISBN 0-309-09124-1.
In 2009, an average of 93 people were killed EVERY DAY due to motor vehicle related injuries. On the other hand, 85 people died every day that same year due to firearms... HOWEVER, 55.6% OF THOSE DEATHS WERE SUICIDES. That means 47.26 people died every day because they were shot by someone else. KEEP IN MIND, that is including all deaths caused by firearms of all sorts, including criminals that were shot either by police, other government agencies or civilians defending themselves.
Also, of the 7,500 guns used in violent crimes in 2009, only about 14% were used by the original and legal owner, meaning the rest were bought privately, stolen, smuggled in, made or traded for drugs.
Please examine this image.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.....armsources.svg
If anyone wants to talk about facts... there's a few facts. Think they're illegitimate? Go tell that to the CDC, Bureau of Justice, United States Census Bureau, National Bureau of Economic Research, etc.
In light of the recent events, I'm not condoning that anyone be let off the hook for committing such a terrible act. However, banning guns of any kind isn't going to keep criminals from getting hold of them. Remember prohibition?
From Tom Givens, head instructor at Rangemaster in Memphis, TN :
In the wake of the tragic, horrific slaughter of innocent school children in Connecticut, there has been a renewed cry for more gun control laws. This stems from the natural need to “do something” when a tragedy of this proportion occurs. I agree we need to do something, but the “something” I want is a bit different.
The “Gun Free Schools Act of 1994” made it a federal crime to possess a firearm on any school property. Many states enacted similar legislation at the state level, as the federal act required them to do so or lose certain federal funding. Thus, it has been a crime to go onto school property anywhere in the US while in possession of a gun for the past 28 years. Has that helped?
Well, I did some research and I cannot find a single mass school shooting in the US prior to 1994, when this bill was passed. For the purposes of this discussion, I will define a “mass school shooting” as one in which three or more people were killed. I have found 14 such incidents in the United States between 1997 and the Newtown, CT, incident of yesterday. That is an average of one incident every two years. ALL OF THESE OCCURRED AFTER THE ENACTMENT OF THE GUN FREE SCHOOLS ACT OF 1994! Let me emphasize that—every mass school shooting in the US occurred AFTER it became illegal to possess a gun on school grounds. Why?
The answer should be obvious. By making schools a “gun free zone”, you automatically disarm all law abiding citizens at those locations. This is tantamount to placing a sign on the front of the building inviting criminals and mentally deranged persons to come shoot up the place. “Come on in. We’re all unarmed, by law. We won’t interfere with your mayhem.” Disgusting…..
I, for instance, have a state issued handgun carry permit. I am certified by the NRA as a Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor and I have been certified by the FBI as a police firearms instructor. I am certified by two states to train and certify new firearms instructors for those states. I have held a law enforcement officer commission. I travel all over the US teaching defensive firearms use. Yet, by law, I would commit a felony by stepping onto school grounds while wearing my sidearm. Despite this, someone who, for whatever reason, wants to shoot up a school can walk right in. If he is willing to murder six year olds in cold blood, he certainly won’t be deterred by a law against bringing a gun onto the campus. Duh….. To think otherwise is so naïve as to be a form of mental illness.
I think it is truly ironic that in the first mass school shooting I could find, occurring in 1997, the mayhem was stopped when the Assistant Principal got a handgun from his car and confronted the gunman, who surrendered to him. Thank God the Assistant Principal had an ILLEGAL gun that day.
A couple of weeks ago, there was an attempted mass shooting at a mall in Oregon. The demented shooter had a high capacity semiautomatic rifle, but he only managed to kill two people and wound one other before killing himself. Why was the body count so low, given that this was obviously a copy-cat version of the Aurora, CO, shootings? The answer is simple. Because Nick Meli, age 22, was at the mall there with his wife and child. Nick has a concealed carry permit and was wearing a handgun concealed on his person. When the suspect began shooting, Nick drew his gun and verbally challenged the gunman. Meli held his fire because of innocent people in the background (excellent judgment under stress), but his actions caused the gunman to break off the attack, run into a nearby service corridor and kill himself, ending the spree. Of course, the lamestream media will not tell you about Nick. They would prefer a higher body count rather than tell you a legally armed citizen saved the day. Here are a few other instances that two minutes of internet research brought to light. In each case, a legally armed private citizen saved lives by being there and by being armed.
1. In Pearl, Mississippi in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was on his way to another school building , he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. Having that gun was illegal, but it saved lives.
2. In Edinboro, Pennsylvania in 1996, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home.
3. In Winnemucca, Nevada in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with three hundred people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed carry license).
4. In Colorado Springs in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard, and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since).
So, I do want some legislative action. I want “gun free zones” abolished, at least for legally armed citizens with government issued licenses to carry. This is real “common sense” gun legislation.
In the wake of the tragic, horrific slaughter of innocent school children in Connecticut, there has been a renewed cry for more gun control laws. This stems from the natural need to “do something” when a tragedy of this proportion occurs. I agree we need to do something, but the “something” I want is a bit different.
The “Gun Free Schools Act of 1994” made it a federal crime to possess a firearm on any school property. Many states enacted similar legislation at the state level, as the federal act required them to do so or lose certain federal funding. Thus, it has been a crime to go onto school property anywhere in the US while in possession of a gun for the past 28 years. Has that helped?
Well, I did some research and I cannot find a single mass school shooting in the US prior to 1994, when this bill was passed. For the purposes of this discussion, I will define a “mass school shooting” as one in which three or more people were killed. I have found 14 such incidents in the United States between 1997 and the Newtown, CT, incident of yesterday. That is an average of one incident every two years. ALL OF THESE OCCURRED AFTER THE ENACTMENT OF THE GUN FREE SCHOOLS ACT OF 1994! Let me emphasize that—every mass school shooting in the US occurred AFTER it became illegal to possess a gun on school grounds. Why?
The answer should be obvious. By making schools a “gun free zone”, you automatically disarm all law abiding citizens at those locations. This is tantamount to placing a sign on the front of the building inviting criminals and mentally deranged persons to come shoot up the place. “Come on in. We’re all unarmed, by law. We won’t interfere with your mayhem.” Disgusting…..
I, for instance, have a state issued handgun carry permit. I am certified by the NRA as a Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor and I have been certified by the FBI as a police firearms instructor. I am certified by two states to train and certify new firearms instructors for those states. I have held a law enforcement officer commission. I travel all over the US teaching defensive firearms use. Yet, by law, I would commit a felony by stepping onto school grounds while wearing my sidearm. Despite this, someone who, for whatever reason, wants to shoot up a school can walk right in. If he is willing to murder six year olds in cold blood, he certainly won’t be deterred by a law against bringing a gun onto the campus. Duh….. To think otherwise is so naïve as to be a form of mental illness.
I think it is truly ironic that in the first mass school shooting I could find, occurring in 1997, the mayhem was stopped when the Assistant Principal got a handgun from his car and confronted the gunman, who surrendered to him. Thank God the Assistant Principal had an ILLEGAL gun that day.
A couple of weeks ago, there was an attempted mass shooting at a mall in Oregon. The demented shooter had a high capacity semiautomatic rifle, but he only managed to kill two people and wound one other before killing himself. Why was the body count so low, given that this was obviously a copy-cat version of the Aurora, CO, shootings? The answer is simple. Because Nick Meli, age 22, was at the mall there with his wife and child. Nick has a concealed carry permit and was wearing a handgun concealed on his person. When the suspect began shooting, Nick drew his gun and verbally challenged the gunman. Meli held his fire because of innocent people in the background (excellent judgment under stress), but his actions caused the gunman to break off the attack, run into a nearby service corridor and kill himself, ending the spree. Of course, the lamestream media will not tell you about Nick. They would prefer a higher body count rather than tell you a legally armed citizen saved the day. Here are a few other instances that two minutes of internet research brought to light. In each case, a legally armed private citizen saved lives by being there and by being armed.
1. In Pearl, Mississippi in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was on his way to another school building , he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. Having that gun was illegal, but it saved lives.
2. In Edinboro, Pennsylvania in 1996, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home.
3. In Winnemucca, Nevada in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with three hundred people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed carry license).
4. In Colorado Springs in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard, and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since).
So, I do want some legislative action. I want “gun free zones” abolished, at least for legally armed citizens with government issued licenses to carry. This is real “common sense” gun legislation.
Would u be okay with those big fat ammo clips being outlawed? Because I damn sure well would be. The only reason they exist is to shoot off as goddamn many bullets as possible in the shortest amount of time. NO ONE outside of the armed forces needs one of those.
Period.
Period.
I beg your forgiveness if I used the word 'clip' incorrectly - but we both know what I'm referring to. Unless you think my unfamiliarity with ammunition terminology invalidates my question, I'd still like to hear your answer. (As would the parents of the slaughtered Sandy Hook kindergarten students.)
You can only shoot as fast as your finger will let you, the magazine has nothing to do with. The Semi-Automatic Rifle he used, will only shoot as fast as his finger would let him. For me though, I use high-capacity magazines for the unfair advantage when rolling down black routes in Afghanistan or for competition shooting back at home. I have no problem with law abiding citizens with not a lick of a criminal record owning one. But look how gun control worked in Obama's hometown Chicago. Straight warzone brah.
In 2003, there were 30,136 firearm-related deaths in the United States; 16,907 (56%) suicides, 11,920 (40%) homicides (including 347 deaths due to legal intervention/war), and 962 (3%) undetermined/unintentional firearm deaths.
CDC/National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports 1999-2003 http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars
The rate of death from firearms in the United States is eight times higher than that in its economic counterparts in other parts of the world.
Kellermann AL and Waeckerle JF. Preventing Firearm Injuries. Ann Emerg Med July 1998; 32:77-79.
The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized countries combined.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 1997;46:101-105.
The United States has the highest rate of youth homicides and suicides among the 26 wealthiest nations...
- http://www.americanbar.org/groups/c.....r_nations.html
The article goes on... and on... and on...
All you gun folks who say 'a maniac would find some other way to hurt people, so let's not bother to do anything whatsoever,' are in serious denial. There was something about 'better mental health systems' being the solution way up above. Really? that's going to prevent these sort of things? Oh yeah, the government will be looking into everyone's mental health records to forestall these things from happening; I'm sure the 'get the government off our backs' crowd will be fully in favor of that. (Or maybe they can come up with some sort of "precrime" psychic prediction system like in "Total Recall"...
"Your rifle is just a tool! It is the hard heart that kills!"
And in the case of that sick fuck in Connecticut, a deranged mind.
It is a simple matter of logic. You cannot rationalize the irrational. You can predict the unpredictable. This was something that nothing, expect possibly identifying that mans mental illness and treating it, could be done.
In the book "Freakonomics", which sites sources in a scholarly manner and is backed up by research, any sociologist or criminologist will tell you gun control laws have no effect on the violent crime rate. More guns or less guns does not matter. But me personally, I take a great deal of peace of mind knowing that I have a pistol by my bed. Its a lot like a condom. I would rather have it and not need it that to need it and not have it.
Peace.
And in the case of that sick fuck in Connecticut, a deranged mind.
It is a simple matter of logic. You cannot rationalize the irrational. You can predict the unpredictable. This was something that nothing, expect possibly identifying that mans mental illness and treating it, could be done.
In the book "Freakonomics", which sites sources in a scholarly manner and is backed up by research, any sociologist or criminologist will tell you gun control laws have no effect on the violent crime rate. More guns or less guns does not matter. But me personally, I take a great deal of peace of mind knowing that I have a pistol by my bed. Its a lot like a condom. I would rather have it and not need it that to need it and not have it.
Peace.
High Capacity Magazine Restrictions.
You can only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. Reloading a magazine can be done fluidly with almost no downtime for a trained individual.
Assault Rifles... By definition "An assault rifle is a selective fire (either fully automatic or burst-capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine."
Now, as far as that is concerned, to even purchase one, you would need to be in a state that allows this, on top of about 6 months and 200$ of the most in depth background check you have ever had.
As it's been stated also, typically, any firearms purchased will need to go through an FFL. Face to face transfers may vary on states with firearms and long guns.
10k Death from gun homicides eh?
The UK weapons ban only pushed back gun related crime by 30%.
Low and behold, ban what you want, criminals will not follow laws. Nifty theory isn't it?
Want something to regulate and ban more? Try vehicles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o.....n_U.S._by_year
You can only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. Reloading a magazine can be done fluidly with almost no downtime for a trained individual.
Assault Rifles... By definition "An assault rifle is a selective fire (either fully automatic or burst-capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine."
Now, as far as that is concerned, to even purchase one, you would need to be in a state that allows this, on top of about 6 months and 200$ of the most in depth background check you have ever had.
As it's been stated also, typically, any firearms purchased will need to go through an FFL. Face to face transfers may vary on states with firearms and long guns.
10k Death from gun homicides eh?
The UK weapons ban only pushed back gun related crime by 30%.
Low and behold, ban what you want, criminals will not follow laws. Nifty theory isn't it?
Want something to regulate and ban more? Try vehicles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o.....n_U.S._by_year
A very classy version of this: http://youtu.be/sgnabJRX5s8?t=1m11s
With that said, I would like to say a good comment to these kind of people:
If guns can kill people, then spoons make people fat.
Bring that up if this happens again.
With that said, I would like to say a good comment to these kind of people:
If guns can kill people, then spoons make people fat.
Bring that up if this happens again.
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