Need I remind you that there is a difference between the following words. Proceed to read the definitions if you are not already aware that there is big difference. Nudity isn't sexual. Nudity should not be censored and sex should not be feared as a subject matter and part of life.
PORNOGRAPHY - creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire.
EROTICA - literature or art intended to arouse sexual desire.
NUDITY - An unclothed human figure, especially an artistic representation.
There are some things that are backwards, some things that are censored that shouldn't be, some things that are not censored that are more harmful and permanent than any nude photo or even cuss word. Nudity isn't sex, and as for sex, we are more comfortable with children being okay with war than okay with sex.
--
I was recently at the local Half Priced Books, purchasing a book from the Art section that was an artists reference for nude models and figure drawing. I get a remark from the young and ignorant cashier. He giggled and gave me a sarcastic "Oh what is /this for?" I replied, unamused "I draw. It's for drawing references." Only to get a "Hehe, okay then!" I could have pretended to be confused, but I didn't. This confusion is a pet peeve of mine. I called DreamRunner on the way home and we discussed the situation. I was a little furstrated.
To mock the situation and get to my point even more, any anyone who thinks this way, really, I re-worked the painting "Leda and the Swan" [Third image down:http://www.en.utexas.edu/amlit/amlitprivate/texts/leda.htm ] by E. Pontormo, he himself was openly influenced by Leonardo.
Which touches on another point. This is a 'rip off' right? It wasn't traced, and it was cited.
There is no 'unoriginal' or 'orginal' art, atleast not that will get you in trouble. Trends and copying are part of art. Look at the works from the 1400-1600's, people knew what worked and the learned from others and copied others techniques and subject matter and even painted over very early versions of photos, flat out tracing photos that they didn't take and called it theirs after a layer of paint was slapped over it. They repeated overused poses, they messed up on anatomy, [next time you're bored red-line a photo of the statue of David with normal human anatomy] they did everything "wrong". That is just part of art, I obviously need to point out that it always was, so CHILL, when someone copies your art, as direct or indirect as it may be, it means nothing more than they are copying what they see clearly working well for others.
[/rant]
I hope that benifited you. I'm back in school, and trying to get back to meaningful art, hopefully with a good message and sarcasm..
PORNOGRAPHY - creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire.
EROTICA - literature or art intended to arouse sexual desire.
NUDITY - An unclothed human figure, especially an artistic representation.
There are some things that are backwards, some things that are censored that shouldn't be, some things that are not censored that are more harmful and permanent than any nude photo or even cuss word. Nudity isn't sex, and as for sex, we are more comfortable with children being okay with war than okay with sex.
--
I was recently at the local Half Priced Books, purchasing a book from the Art section that was an artists reference for nude models and figure drawing. I get a remark from the young and ignorant cashier. He giggled and gave me a sarcastic "Oh what is /this for?" I replied, unamused "I draw. It's for drawing references." Only to get a "Hehe, okay then!" I could have pretended to be confused, but I didn't. This confusion is a pet peeve of mine. I called DreamRunner on the way home and we discussed the situation. I was a little furstrated.
To mock the situation and get to my point even more, any anyone who thinks this way, really, I re-worked the painting "Leda and the Swan" [Third image down:http://www.en.utexas.edu/amlit/amlitprivate/texts/leda.htm ] by E. Pontormo, he himself was openly influenced by Leonardo.
Which touches on another point. This is a 'rip off' right? It wasn't traced, and it was cited.
There is no 'unoriginal' or 'orginal' art, atleast not that will get you in trouble. Trends and copying are part of art. Look at the works from the 1400-1600's, people knew what worked and the learned from others and copied others techniques and subject matter and even painted over very early versions of photos, flat out tracing photos that they didn't take and called it theirs after a layer of paint was slapped over it. They repeated overused poses, they messed up on anatomy, [next time you're bored red-line a photo of the statue of David with normal human anatomy] they did everything "wrong". That is just part of art, I obviously need to point out that it always was, so CHILL, when someone copies your art, as direct or indirect as it may be, it means nothing more than they are copying what they see clearly working well for others.
[/rant]
I hope that benifited you. I'm back in school, and trying to get back to meaningful art, hopefully with a good message and sarcasm..
Category Artwork (Traditional) / Miscellaneous
Species Wolf
Size 621 x 800px
File Size 124.4 kB
I completely agree! I hate how some people treat sex/nudity like it's taboo, when it's really just a part of life. For the longest time I was so sensitive about those subjects - & still sometimes am - just because of how society tends to look at them. I agree with you in that there is something seriously wrong with this country when children - or really almost everyone - is more accepting of war than sex.
Also, you did an amazing job with the art itself. The detail work is fantastic, and I love the expression. You did a gorgeous job with portraying your argument with your words & art. :]
Also, you did an amazing job with the art itself. The detail work is fantastic, and I love the expression. You did a gorgeous job with portraying your argument with your words & art. :]
Yeah. Now, not wanting your 8 year old to see porn is a totally different topic, but yeah, that's how it /starts/ then they add things to it that aren't the same. *huffy* -.-
It is harder to break away from a learned mind set. I never learned to think nudity was bad or think sex was bad. My opinion of porn.. that's a totally different drawing. X3
I'm glad you liked this!
It is harder to break away from a learned mind set. I never learned to think nudity was bad or think sex was bad. My opinion of porn.. that's a totally different drawing. X3
I'm glad you liked this!
So... I really love this. Everything about it, the drawing, the message, the way you presented you point, and the even the rant in your description.
Speaking of David, lol: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/156796/
And it did benefit me, as well as being a pleasure to look at, thanks for posting!
Speaking of David, lol: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/156796/
And it did benefit me, as well as being a pleasure to look at, thanks for posting!
As much as I'm favoriting the image, I'm favoriting the rant. If not more.
I think I may actually try that painting over a photo thing, it sounds interesting.
Strangely enough, google Leda and the Swan and a lot of the images you get are of a woman and a swan, but in a much more provocative way. Case in point: http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/Nort.....r/LedaSwan.jpg
Also, I'm going to watch you now.
I think I may actually try that painting over a photo thing, it sounds interesting.
Strangely enough, google Leda and the Swan and a lot of the images you get are of a woman and a swan, but in a much more provocative way. Case in point: http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/Nort.....r/LedaSwan.jpg
Also, I'm going to watch you now.
Leda and the Swan are portrayed numerous times by many artists, some relaxing nude paintings and as that picture shows, some are a lot more sexual.
Leda is just another common old-school female painting subject, just like the Madonna and Venus figures. Leda is the one I'm the least familair with, I'm trying to change that.
Artwork from that time period is probably my favorite style, for a number of reasons.
I'm glad to hear that. I really thought that the meaning would be annoyingly overlooked. Thank you! That really made it worth it for me.
Leda is just another common old-school female painting subject, just like the Madonna and Venus figures. Leda is the one I'm the least familair with, I'm trying to change that.
Artwork from that time period is probably my favorite style, for a number of reasons.
I'm glad to hear that. I really thought that the meaning would be annoyingly overlooked. Thank you! That really made it worth it for me.
Well, yeah, nudity and erotica and porn and sex cross paths but are all different. Nudity isn't always porn or even always erotic and can be seperate from sex. Some poeple just throw these words all behind one definition and that creates the ignorance.
So yeah, erotica, even porn, can involve clothing, those relate to sexual things and can often involve nudity. Nude and naked also have different meanings, nude refers more to art while naked refers more to sex.
So yeah, erotica, even porn, can involve clothing, those relate to sexual things and can often involve nudity. Nude and naked also have different meanings, nude refers more to art while naked refers more to sex.
Our culture is suffering from severe dementia, and i'm willing to bet that to an outsider, we and our silly fear-based customs look pretty damn ridiculous. (i guess maybe we're outsiders, too. i know i feel that way sometimes.)
"every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief" - one of my favourite quotes... from a U2 song.
...there's not really any art that hasn't been done before. Sure, maybe things are slightly different, but we all walk on ground that's already got footprints all over it.
More meaningful art is better! I'm glad you're inspired. The world needs artists to remind people that it exists - that there's more to life than waking up and making coffee, going to work, reading the paper, and then coming home to watch tv while pretending to love the person sitting on the couch with you.
"every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief" - one of my favourite quotes... from a U2 song.
...there's not really any art that hasn't been done before. Sure, maybe things are slightly different, but we all walk on ground that's already got footprints all over it.
More meaningful art is better! I'm glad you're inspired. The world needs artists to remind people that it exists - that there's more to life than waking up and making coffee, going to work, reading the paper, and then coming home to watch tv while pretending to love the person sitting on the couch with you.
Expect more. Expect Much more meaningful art! Especially because I'm re-reading The Vagina Monologues and am also yet to make an art rant on my view of porn. Trust me, this is just the start, being back in school does this to me and I love it. And to be honest, you and PsuedoManituo also made me want to get back to this type of 'meaning art'.
I like U2 and I like that little song bit, I might just use that, music is another big influence on my art.
Thank you!
I like U2 and I like that little song bit, I might just use that, music is another big influence on my art.
Thank you!
http://www.en.utexas.edu/amlit/amli.....texts/leda.htm - the one you mentioned looks like the second one down.
Fantastic pic, and a great rant: clarifies the distinction like whacking a numpty over the head with a rolled-up Venn diagram. I'm not saying you should actually do that, but the cashier you mentioned could well benefit from it. ^^
[paraphrasing] 'Very early versions of photos in the 1600s'? Cameras Obscura, right?
> Trends and copying are part of art. [...]
Bang on. I'd go as far as to say it's the way all of culture works too: art is the expression of raw idea, and what you described is how ideas propagate and thrive.
Fantastic pic, and a great rant: clarifies the distinction like whacking a numpty over the head with a rolled-up Venn diagram. I'm not saying you should actually do that, but the cashier you mentioned could well benefit from it. ^^
[paraphrasing] 'Very early versions of photos in the 1600s'? Cameras Obscura, right?
> Trends and copying are part of art. [...]
Bang on. I'd go as far as to say it's the way all of culture works too: art is the expression of raw idea, and what you described is how ideas propagate and thrive.
I agree with you a great deal. Just a couple of points, though.
First, to bastardise a phrase, one man's erotica is another man's pornography. It's a subjective categorisation. It just so happens that many people in society are very quick to categorise something as porn, treat it with disdain, and assume everyone else will/should too.
Second, influence and derivation of art is fine. However, theft is derivation without attribution. I come from the scientific arena, where our careers depend on our work being cited by others. It's a marker of how competent we are as scientists, and so within the science community it is universally regarded as *very* important that work is always attributed to its author. To attribute artistic work, like you've done, is perfectly acceptable, but to imply by omission, or outright claim that it is entirely original (which is absurd in itself, as you rightly point out) is ethically wrong. My point is that attribution of work, where due, is the key.
First, to bastardise a phrase, one man's erotica is another man's pornography. It's a subjective categorisation. It just so happens that many people in society are very quick to categorise something as porn, treat it with disdain, and assume everyone else will/should too.
Second, influence and derivation of art is fine. However, theft is derivation without attribution. I come from the scientific arena, where our careers depend on our work being cited by others. It's a marker of how competent we are as scientists, and so within the science community it is universally regarded as *very* important that work is always attributed to its author. To attribute artistic work, like you've done, is perfectly acceptable, but to imply by omission, or outright claim that it is entirely original (which is absurd in itself, as you rightly point out) is ethically wrong. My point is that attribution of work, where due, is the key.
The difference between erotica and porn is that, as the definitions state, porn is meant for no more than to turn you on, it has no artistic value. Erotica has artistic or literary value, but otherwise, yes, they are similar, they are meant to be sexual, so whichever one turns you on turns you on, but erotica isn't porn, as sexual/adult as it gets.
Art is different than all other careers and doesn't have the rules that come with academic things. Art doesn't really even have rules, and at the same time does, but totally unrealated ones. It's a form of creativity, it's whatever you think it is and you can do with it whatever you want to, it's set apart from math, science, other black and white topics and can't really compare to them.
Being inspired, as much or as little in art isn't really something to cite, now that we have copyrights you can't use art word for word or line for line, and call it yours, no. But art is creativity and imagination and 'anything goes' so it's pretty hard to call anything 100% anyones, it's not, I don't think you could cross the line easily unless you're say, selling prints of another artists work and saying it's yours, but that's stealing, not being creative with an idea that's already there. That's how I see it.
Art is different than all other careers and doesn't have the rules that come with academic things. Art doesn't really even have rules, and at the same time does, but totally unrealated ones. It's a form of creativity, it's whatever you think it is and you can do with it whatever you want to, it's set apart from math, science, other black and white topics and can't really compare to them.
Being inspired, as much or as little in art isn't really something to cite, now that we have copyrights you can't use art word for word or line for line, and call it yours, no. But art is creativity and imagination and 'anything goes' so it's pretty hard to call anything 100% anyones, it's not, I don't think you could cross the line easily unless you're say, selling prints of another artists work and saying it's yours, but that's stealing, not being creative with an idea that's already there. That's how I see it.
Agreed 110%. We all arrived on this planet because of sex. Peeps need to get over themselves. It's so damned disturbing that murder is okay for children to see but not simple nudity.
And I'm tired of the attitude that using a photo reference is "cheating"... That "good" artists should just naturally be oozing so much talent that they don't *need* to use references; their anatomy is perfect straight from their imagination. *rolls eyes* Some folks can fake it pretty well, but I definitely like seeing when an artist cites some sort of photo or model reference- it *is* a noticeable improvement, and it does make an image look a *lot* better. It's one thing that bugs me about my own art- I've gotten a lot of compliments about my sense of anatomy, but that's one area where I'm actually rather dissatisfied and feel I should use more references. :P
And I'm tired of the attitude that using a photo reference is "cheating"... That "good" artists should just naturally be oozing so much talent that they don't *need* to use references; their anatomy is perfect straight from their imagination. *rolls eyes* Some folks can fake it pretty well, but I definitely like seeing when an artist cites some sort of photo or model reference- it *is* a noticeable improvement, and it does make an image look a *lot* better. It's one thing that bugs me about my own art- I've gotten a lot of compliments about my sense of anatomy, but that's one area where I'm actually rather dissatisfied and feel I should use more references. :P
*APPLAUDS* So very true and so well said!
That's very strange that the cashier was immature like that. No one at ANY bookstore should be like that. All the bookstores I worked for I never saw anything like that and if anyone did then they would need to be spoken to.
Out of curiosity, which HPB was it? I work at one in California.
BTW, your message is very powerful, but I don't want to forget to add that your linework is very well done! Love the expression, too. Amazing work!
That's very strange that the cashier was immature like that. No one at ANY bookstore should be like that. All the bookstores I worked for I never saw anything like that and if anyone did then they would need to be spoken to.
Out of curiosity, which HPB was it? I work at one in California.
BTW, your message is very powerful, but I don't want to forget to add that your linework is very well done! Love the expression, too. Amazing work!
Thank you!
I'm not sure yet if I'll color it, I was originally going to and still sort of want to. I also was originally going to ink the little cherub/baby things that are also in the original painting, but digitally erased them. You're free to color it digitally in the mean time if you'd like. :3
I'm not sure yet if I'll color it, I was originally going to and still sort of want to. I also was originally going to ink the little cherub/baby things that are also in the original painting, but digitally erased them. You're free to color it digitally in the mean time if you'd like. :3
I'd complain to the store about behavior like that. It’s none of his business what you’ll do with the book; one should be able to purchase products without an inquisition.
I am tired of these socially constipated individuals expressing their sexual fears though nervous humor (though there are worse ways they can express it, ex. Censorship sanctioned by law). I can’t comfortably draw nudity in public for fear of some social slave reminding me of the sexually uptight atmosphere. I can try to ignore them, but I haven’t perfected my ability to do this–it takes a lot of concentration to overcome my quick temper. Result, anger and diverted concentration ruin artistic mood.
I think the anger comes, in part, from being reminded that these “taboo’ things, which are for no good reason taboo, can be (potentially) legally suppressed. Also, from sympathy for people who learn, for no good reason, to repress that which is dubbed taboo. And last, out of anger of the realization that I have been, and still am to an extent, being controlled by those who preach shame in the liking of or the participating in the so called “taboo.” I am opposed to those who would limit freedom and happiness for no good reason. People like the clerk are censoring the actions of those who would openly do certain things in public, but will no longer do so or will feel anxiety when doing them because of not wanting to deal with an awkward or infuriating social situation. And for those who would resist, I don’t think anyone should have to lead a protest against this stupidity every time one draws a picture in public or buy s a book.
I like how the swan’s beak is holding the censorship bar.
I am tired of these socially constipated individuals expressing their sexual fears though nervous humor (though there are worse ways they can express it, ex. Censorship sanctioned by law). I can’t comfortably draw nudity in public for fear of some social slave reminding me of the sexually uptight atmosphere. I can try to ignore them, but I haven’t perfected my ability to do this–it takes a lot of concentration to overcome my quick temper. Result, anger and diverted concentration ruin artistic mood.
I think the anger comes, in part, from being reminded that these “taboo’ things, which are for no good reason taboo, can be (potentially) legally suppressed. Also, from sympathy for people who learn, for no good reason, to repress that which is dubbed taboo. And last, out of anger of the realization that I have been, and still am to an extent, being controlled by those who preach shame in the liking of or the participating in the so called “taboo.” I am opposed to those who would limit freedom and happiness for no good reason. People like the clerk are censoring the actions of those who would openly do certain things in public, but will no longer do so or will feel anxiety when doing them because of not wanting to deal with an awkward or infuriating social situation. And for those who would resist, I don’t think anyone should have to lead a protest against this stupidity every time one draws a picture in public or buy s a book.
I like how the swan’s beak is holding the censorship bar.
it always angered me that no one was allowed to see my art in highschool ,cept my AP art class. Because I find the nude beautiful, and I commonly use it.
If it was to be displayed, I had to have a censor bar on my art..which sadly was always taken down by some rude person.
I know the pain. You draw breast or buttocks or any other naughty bit and people freak out and say OHHH your drawing PORN
..no..I'm drawing a girl with no clothes..
if I wanted to draw porn..i would..and I do..TOTALLY different..way different.
*hugs* I'm sorry the world is full of idiots
If it was to be displayed, I had to have a censor bar on my art..which sadly was always taken down by some rude person.
I know the pain. You draw breast or buttocks or any other naughty bit and people freak out and say OHHH your drawing PORN
..no..I'm drawing a girl with no clothes..
if I wanted to draw porn..i would..and I do..TOTALLY different..way different.
*hugs* I'm sorry the world is full of idiots
Yeah, I agree, they are totally different, we happen to live in the only country that has people who train people to think they are they same thing. Uh.. no, I don't think you should need to be an artist or friggin live in Europe to see that either.. atleast you shouldn't. In other words, yes, exactly, thank you. 9_9
I love the rant, It's so sad that the subject of sex, nudity and erotica is more outlawed in our culture than the subject of war and death. I agree with you on these points you've made. Great explanation :'3 Your picture is wonderful as well, perfect for the description you posted. Also, the swan is beautifully done :D
thank the gods someone else thinks this way. I thought I was alone for a while.
It never stops amazing me just how manny people are quick to slap censor bars over things. and how many parents are uncomfortable talking about sex with their kids. those same parents wonder why their kid got pregnant at age 15. it's cause no one teaches them the things they need to know until it's too late.
as for artistic values, I think you're spot on there as well. Porn sucks, erotica makes you think and turns you on. that's what I call a win win situation. erotica requires you to spend time and actualy look at the image, or cosider the words, porn cuts to the chace, is done slopily and without detail.
good art, well detailed, I'm keeping an eye on you from now on.
It never stops amazing me just how manny people are quick to slap censor bars over things. and how many parents are uncomfortable talking about sex with their kids. those same parents wonder why their kid got pregnant at age 15. it's cause no one teaches them the things they need to know until it's too late.
as for artistic values, I think you're spot on there as well. Porn sucks, erotica makes you think and turns you on. that's what I call a win win situation. erotica requires you to spend time and actualy look at the image, or cosider the words, porn cuts to the chace, is done slopily and without detail.
good art, well detailed, I'm keeping an eye on you from now on.
Well put! Haha, same thing happened when I went to borders. I bought this awesome anatomy and pose book, along with an animal illustration book and the lady said "Arent you a bit too young to be buying this?" I laughed XD She was an old lady so I humored her and explained the differences. After that she said "Ooooh, *gasp* And I thought you were going to do the naughty with that book! :O" Lol, it was a great laugh XD
Nice job tho, clear and to the point, i love it. And using that picture is genius!
Nice job tho, clear and to the point, i love it. And using that picture is genius!
You speak much truth. This past semester I took an art history class called Women in Art. One lady in the class apparently didn't pay attention to what she signed up for, and got a little offended when the teacher started showing slides of nude or partially nude figures. She eventually dropped the class (also because she thought we had too many images to remember, which really wasn't all that much). The worst part is that she had to be somewhere between 35-45. She really should have been mature enough to not be offended by nudes. :/
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