FA+
Shop
2441
Views
Views
44
Favorites
Favorites
Category
All / Pokemon
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 635 x 1280
File Size 221.5 kB
Report this content
More from Mewtwo
The Pokesav Gym (Commission by JHallPokemon)
I'm not sure if this version is going to be readable here - if it's not, please check out the original at http://my.deviantart.com/messages/#/d4unvms
Hello again, fellow Pokemon Trainers and fans. Once again I've got everyone's attention through JHall's work, and just as in the past, I'd like to make the most of it. Hopefully this is a LITTLE less controversial than the last commission, but I know this will probably still rile up a few hardcore players.
Some of you might not get this, while others will right away. Basically, I'm advocating the use of Pokesav, a save editor program, to edit/create a competitive Pokemon team as opposed to some of the current requirements to train a "battle-worthy" team.
Why? No, it's not because I'm too lazy to put in the work - it's because some of the work just isn't fair.
*EVs. vs. IVs - This is my absolute biggest gripe with the current system at the moment. EVs, or Effort Values, simply put, are extra stat points your Pokemon can gain by defeating certain Pokemon in battle. If you beat a Pokemon that has a high Special Attack stat, your Pokemon will grow stronger in Special Attack, beating a fast Pokemon gives you extra Speed, and so on. It's a bit more complicated than that but that should pass as "close enough" of an explanation. This is a perfectly valid requirement for Pokemon training, as it's something that is 100% within the Trainer's control, and those extra stat points, with the right training, are easily put where needed. (For example, a tank will get extra defense and HP, and a quick sweeper will get extra Special Attack and Speed.)
IVs, or Individual Values, are set values between 0 and 31 that are randomly generated when a Pokemon is caught. While there are ways to tweak these through generation upon generation of breeding, and having certain Pokemon in daycare hold certain items, it still boils down to a glorified dice-roll. And what of Pokemon that one might want for a competitive team, but cannot breed? (For example, there have been official tournaments in the past, and there most likely will be again, where some Legendaries are allowed at 1 or 2 per team maximum.) Do Nintendo and Game Freak expect a player to stand in front of said Legendary right before saving, and catch them over and over AND OVER until they get the right combinations of IVs to randomly drop in? Now I know there are methods of "RNG jacking" that would eventually allow someone to know when those proper values are going to be there for the next Pokemon they catch, but honestly why can't these values just be altered after the catch through a sidequest?
*Natures - same thing. Set in stone once you catch the Pokemon, 20 out of the 25 natures raise one of your stats by 10% and lower another by 10%. Every comeptitive team has one specific nature that will benefit each Pokemon, giving it a boost in a much-needed stat while taking a 10% penalty in one that doesn't really matter too much (for example, a Pokemon with all Special moves getting a +10% to Special Attack and a -10% to physical attack.) Once again, this is something outside of the player's control, so in addition to hoping for the right IVs, getting 31s in the right areas, the player ALSO needs to have the right nature.
*Abilities - in the same vein, some Pokemon can have multiple different abilities; usually only one of those is worth having, and adds another coin flip to the already massive amount of randomness that comes with IVs and Nature.
Training is supposed to be about putting in proper work; I don't see proper work being sitting down and figuring out what the next batch of random numbers are going to be that dictate what your next catch is going to have, or breeding the same Pokemon over and over for another roll of the dice, so to speak. Therefore, until there's an in-game method to change a Pokemon's IVs after the catch, change a Pokemon's nature after the catch, and for a Pokemon that has multiple abilities to have a way to switch abilities after the catch, I fully support anyone using Pokesav or any other editing program with the caveat that it's only used to do things that are within the bounds of what is legally possible in the game.
I hope that someday, the World Champion of one year's official Pokemon tournament, after collecting their prizes, annonces that their team was Pokesav'd and uses it as a platform to force the next generation of games to have more Trainer-friendly changes in going about training up a competitive team.
As always, thank you JHall, for letting me tap into a large portion of the Pokemon fanbase through your work!
Hello again, fellow Pokemon Trainers and fans. Once again I've got everyone's attention through JHall's work, and just as in the past, I'd like to make the most of it. Hopefully this is a LITTLE less controversial than the last commission, but I know this will probably still rile up a few hardcore players.
Some of you might not get this, while others will right away. Basically, I'm advocating the use of Pokesav, a save editor program, to edit/create a competitive Pokemon team as opposed to some of the current requirements to train a "battle-worthy" team.
Why? No, it's not because I'm too lazy to put in the work - it's because some of the work just isn't fair.
*EVs. vs. IVs - This is my absolute biggest gripe with the current system at the moment. EVs, or Effort Values, simply put, are extra stat points your Pokemon can gain by defeating certain Pokemon in battle. If you beat a Pokemon that has a high Special Attack stat, your Pokemon will grow stronger in Special Attack, beating a fast Pokemon gives you extra Speed, and so on. It's a bit more complicated than that but that should pass as "close enough" of an explanation. This is a perfectly valid requirement for Pokemon training, as it's something that is 100% within the Trainer's control, and those extra stat points, with the right training, are easily put where needed. (For example, a tank will get extra defense and HP, and a quick sweeper will get extra Special Attack and Speed.)
IVs, or Individual Values, are set values between 0 and 31 that are randomly generated when a Pokemon is caught. While there are ways to tweak these through generation upon generation of breeding, and having certain Pokemon in daycare hold certain items, it still boils down to a glorified dice-roll. And what of Pokemon that one might want for a competitive team, but cannot breed? (For example, there have been official tournaments in the past, and there most likely will be again, where some Legendaries are allowed at 1 or 2 per team maximum.) Do Nintendo and Game Freak expect a player to stand in front of said Legendary right before saving, and catch them over and over AND OVER until they get the right combinations of IVs to randomly drop in? Now I know there are methods of "RNG jacking" that would eventually allow someone to know when those proper values are going to be there for the next Pokemon they catch, but honestly why can't these values just be altered after the catch through a sidequest?
*Natures - same thing. Set in stone once you catch the Pokemon, 20 out of the 25 natures raise one of your stats by 10% and lower another by 10%. Every comeptitive team has one specific nature that will benefit each Pokemon, giving it a boost in a much-needed stat while taking a 10% penalty in one that doesn't really matter too much (for example, a Pokemon with all Special moves getting a +10% to Special Attack and a -10% to physical attack.) Once again, this is something outside of the player's control, so in addition to hoping for the right IVs, getting 31s in the right areas, the player ALSO needs to have the right nature.
*Abilities - in the same vein, some Pokemon can have multiple different abilities; usually only one of those is worth having, and adds another coin flip to the already massive amount of randomness that comes with IVs and Nature.
Training is supposed to be about putting in proper work; I don't see proper work being sitting down and figuring out what the next batch of random numbers are going to be that dictate what your next catch is going to have, or breeding the same Pokemon over and over for another roll of the dice, so to speak. Therefore, until there's an in-game method to change a Pokemon's IVs after the catch, change a Pokemon's nature after the catch, and for a Pokemon that has multiple abilities to have a way to switch abilities after the catch, I fully support anyone using Pokesav or any other editing program with the caveat that it's only used to do things that are within the bounds of what is legally possible in the game.
I hope that someday, the World Champion of one year's official Pokemon tournament, after collecting their prizes, annonces that their team was Pokesav'd and uses it as a platform to force the next generation of games to have more Trainer-friendly changes in going about training up a competitive team.
As always, thank you JHall, for letting me tap into a large portion of the Pokemon fanbase through your work!
Category All / Pokemon
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 635 x 1280px
File Size 221.5 kB
Well, when you have a game where the main idea is having creatures fight one another to see who's better, you're going to have people wanting to do everything they can to help themselves when they fight. It is kinda crazy just how intense that kind of shit gets.
I whole-heartedly agree with this person. I'd rather just sit back and collect all of the endless streams of new pokemon. Let other people fuss over the fighting. Heh.. Don't even get me started on Magic though.. heh, heh, heh. *slowly draws back into his lair, the last thing visible is his cold, calculating eyes and his sadistic grin*
I agree. I in fact have seprate teams for such a situation. I have a team i Breeded and Raised for myself for fun, and cool matches with people who also breed and Raise their teams. for the big guys wo are butthurt about being the "very best" when they are not or they want to go all the way, I use my Edited(Pre breeded legitlly) Pokemon. Plus i have a copy of that Edited team that was trained legit. Not as storng but pretty cool.
I don't think Nintendo expects us to reset-farm legendary pokemon, I think they're trying to pretend we don't know about the stat growth formulas in the first place. IVs and EVs aren't officially named, and only hinted at by the stat evaluator in the more recent games, who only gives a general idea of the highest stat.
Using pokesav requires the game system, game cart, computer, and one of the following:
A: An R4 or similar flash cart, micro SD card, and second game system
B: An Action Replay DSi or equivalent
C: An EMS Adapter+
Assuming you already have the cart, system, and computer, you're looking at a minimum of an additional $20 just in order to generate modified (or hacked, depending on who you ask) pokemon.
The other option is to use the game's random number generator against itself. There are a plethora of programs available to calculate exactly how to catch pokesav-quality pokemon without using any of the extra items listed above. These pokemon aren't modified in any way, but may have a strange catch date.
Using pokesav requires the game system, game cart, computer, and one of the following:
A: An R4 or similar flash cart, micro SD card, and second game system
B: An Action Replay DSi or equivalent
C: An EMS Adapter+
Assuming you already have the cart, system, and computer, you're looking at a minimum of an additional $20 just in order to generate modified (or hacked, depending on who you ask) pokemon.
The other option is to use the game's random number generator against itself. There are a plethora of programs available to calculate exactly how to catch pokesav-quality pokemon without using any of the extra items listed above. These pokemon aren't modified in any way, but may have a strange catch date.
All valid points. I know it's possible to RNG hack, and I know Nintendo likes to think we're not smart enough to decipher their formulas for how the game works.
I do, however, still wish that it were possible to force Nintendo's hand as far as being completely open with said formulas and information, and also requiring a legitimate in-game method to bypass the bullshit that is the current IV system.
Nothing short of a World Champion coming out and saying "I Pokesav'd, you should too until they fix this" is going to make that happen though. But I can dream.
I do, however, still wish that it were possible to force Nintendo's hand as far as being completely open with said formulas and information, and also requiring a legitimate in-game method to bypass the bullshit that is the current IV system.
Nothing short of a World Champion coming out and saying "I Pokesav'd, you should too until they fix this" is going to make that happen though. But I can dream.
while I do agree that the IV thing is an annoying implementation, I would not consider a person who won a tournament with cheated pokemon to be a champion of any kind. it is very tedious just to level pokemon to level 100, sure, but using a save editor is no better than using an action replay with an XP multiplier on. not that I find that inherently bad, but too often I've seen people brag about how perfect their team is and how pathetic another's is, when the only reason is that they used a save edit (which they openly admit). I'm sure some use it for purposes to that are reasonable, but I have yet to meet one personally.
now if official tournaments would just bump all competitors up to max IVs, or get rid of the IV system, then everything else wouldn't be too bad. (though it still takes forever to get a nature that you want... took me three days to get the right mewtwo).
long story short- I don't have anything against using things, as i have used and ActionReplay to get a shiny before (only shiny I've every found), but unless everyone uses it, it shouldn't be used in a tournament in my opinion. Sorry for rambling. ^^;
now if official tournaments would just bump all competitors up to max IVs, or get rid of the IV system, then everything else wouldn't be too bad. (though it still takes forever to get a nature that you want... took me three days to get the right mewtwo).
long story short- I don't have anything against using things, as i have used and ActionReplay to get a shiny before (only shiny I've every found), but unless everyone uses it, it shouldn't be used in a tournament in my opinion. Sorry for rambling. ^^;
Now if someone doesn't even raise their own team to Level 100 on their own, THAT'S an issue and I wouldn't see that team as legitimate. However, a Pokemon that had its IVs/Nature edited but was then otherwise properly raised, I do consider to be a legitimate use, even for tournament gameplay.
You said yourself that if IVs were altered to their maximums tournament settings you'd be okay with that, and that it's ridiculous you had to reset for 3 days to get the correct nature on a Pokemon. Those are problems that need to be solved, and if the powers that be refuse to do so, then there shouldn't be an issue if we take matters into our own hands.
(By the way, someone on Reddit who was a competitor at these events in the past offered to answer questions about it; from what he indicated to me, a Pokesav'd/Pokegen'd team HAS won the World Championship at least once.)
You said yourself that if IVs were altered to their maximums tournament settings you'd be okay with that, and that it's ridiculous you had to reset for 3 days to get the correct nature on a Pokemon. Those are problems that need to be solved, and if the powers that be refuse to do so, then there shouldn't be an issue if we take matters into our own hands.
(By the way, someone on Reddit who was a competitor at these events in the past offered to answer questions about it; from what he indicated to me, a Pokesav'd/Pokegen'd team HAS won the World Championship at least once.)
I can see editing IVs I guess, since we can't even see them normally. but it still feels a little off.
and yes, the way things are, it is ridiculous, but people who do not use any form of cheating device enter those tournaments with their hard-earned pokemon, so if they lost to what is illegitimate pokemon, it isn't right. I don't use the online vs mode in my White game, but if I did, I would feel cheated if I lost to someone simply because they cheated to get maximum stats, similar to tournaments and the like. So even though I only collect pokemon, I feel for those who truly enjoy a fair battle.
I have no doubt that a perfect team would win against ones trained normally, which I do believe is your point and you are correct that it should not be this way, but until it changes I see pokesave pokemon as cheated pokemon in tournament use. using them will likely not affect Game Freak or Nintendo's development of the stat system, as corporates rarely look at anything that doesn't directly affect profit. even good companies like Nintendo. so using pokesave only cheats those who do not use it.
I do apologize if I sound harsh or mean or anything, but I have been cheated before in another game by someone who used an editor to maximize their stats to "legitimate" standards... and it just felt overall horrid. I do not know how you use an editor on anything aside from ROMs on an emulator, but I do not have the means to do such even if I wanted, and many probably do not even know they are fighting someone's pokemon who are beefed up to max...
sorry, it just feels wrong, but I do understand your point. I have experienced the effects of the current system when trying to catch a perfect Mewtwo, whom is my favorite legendary, and had to settle for above average. so I agree it needs changing, but doubt that an editor will do such even if we plead for it.
again, sorry for any hard feelings...
and yes, the way things are, it is ridiculous, but people who do not use any form of cheating device enter those tournaments with their hard-earned pokemon, so if they lost to what is illegitimate pokemon, it isn't right. I don't use the online vs mode in my White game, but if I did, I would feel cheated if I lost to someone simply because they cheated to get maximum stats, similar to tournaments and the like. So even though I only collect pokemon, I feel for those who truly enjoy a fair battle.
I have no doubt that a perfect team would win against ones trained normally, which I do believe is your point and you are correct that it should not be this way, but until it changes I see pokesave pokemon as cheated pokemon in tournament use. using them will likely not affect Game Freak or Nintendo's development of the stat system, as corporates rarely look at anything that doesn't directly affect profit. even good companies like Nintendo. so using pokesave only cheats those who do not use it.
I do apologize if I sound harsh or mean or anything, but I have been cheated before in another game by someone who used an editor to maximize their stats to "legitimate" standards... and it just felt overall horrid. I do not know how you use an editor on anything aside from ROMs on an emulator, but I do not have the means to do such even if I wanted, and many probably do not even know they are fighting someone's pokemon who are beefed up to max...
sorry, it just feels wrong, but I do understand your point. I have experienced the effects of the current system when trying to catch a perfect Mewtwo, whom is my favorite legendary, and had to settle for above average. so I agree it needs changing, but doubt that an editor will do such even if we plead for it.
again, sorry for any hard feelings...
I'm relieved I didn't offend you, as that wasn't my intent, I just get worked up over things and start talking before I think about what I'm saying sometimes, then I have to explain the point I was trying to make earlier and end up babbling. ^^;
And yes, we both agree it needs changed. I did not know how much until I tried to catch myself the perfect Mewtwo, got the correct Nature, and then was told by that NPC that rates your IVs that he was only above average... after I already saved. >n>
(He's still awesome to me~)
And yes, we both agree it needs changed. I did not know how much until I tried to catch myself the perfect Mewtwo, got the correct Nature, and then was told by that NPC that rates your IVs that he was only above average... after I already saved. >n>
(He's still awesome to me~)
I kind of have to agree with you on this. EVs are sensible, period. IVs are wierd though and seem unneccessary. Natures and Abilities I don't give a damn about. So what if my pokemon has a nature that's negative to it or an ability different from what I was hoping for? Stick with the thing as if you were playing original red and blue (or green in some cases) since it's better than just saving and resetting and a ton of crap that sucks up time you could spend playing.
I raise my pokémon legitimately because I feel the rarity of "perfect IVs" for a legendary is more a feature than a bug. A legendary is a one-time catch, you can reset until your patience gives in, and that's the point when you settle with the pokémon you got.
I wouldn't fight in tournaments and expect to win because I know I WILL face pokésav'd pokémon and I WILL be in a SEVERE disadvantage, because, while I have to train everything I have, _AND CATCH IT_, and _BREED IT_, they will click here and there and have their magic team. I don't care enough to partake in a tournament anyway...
...However, I do understand that the future for competitive gaming is in platforms that control cheating from a central database. That is why Blizzard changed Diablo to be online-only, it is a painful but necessary trade off to pay for competitive validity. Would you want to be forced to play Pokémon online?, Me neither. And do you think the game would really be the same to all those casual players if IVs and natures were eliminated from the game?, It wouldn't. The game is tailored for them, as far as I know. It gives them a few weeks of fun before they get bored and store their catridge, only to play months later when a new version comes.
Tournaments should be done with simulators in my opinion. Everyone in the same conditions, everyone free to pick any pokémon with legal stats (Blizzard also understood this and made their PvP tournament with players able to pick maximum tier armor and generating any top level character, instead of being forced to level up and "catch" the items with the equivalent to right IVs; I still think WoW sucks for PvP but you see a pattern here too, don't ya?...).
Also nice to meet you: Mewtwo, sizechanging, and feet... we speak the same language.
I wouldn't fight in tournaments and expect to win because I know I WILL face pokésav'd pokémon and I WILL be in a SEVERE disadvantage, because, while I have to train everything I have, _AND CATCH IT_, and _BREED IT_, they will click here and there and have their magic team. I don't care enough to partake in a tournament anyway...
...However, I do understand that the future for competitive gaming is in platforms that control cheating from a central database. That is why Blizzard changed Diablo to be online-only, it is a painful but necessary trade off to pay for competitive validity. Would you want to be forced to play Pokémon online?, Me neither. And do you think the game would really be the same to all those casual players if IVs and natures were eliminated from the game?, It wouldn't. The game is tailored for them, as far as I know. It gives them a few weeks of fun before they get bored and store their catridge, only to play months later when a new version comes.
Tournaments should be done with simulators in my opinion. Everyone in the same conditions, everyone free to pick any pokémon with legal stats (Blizzard also understood this and made their PvP tournament with players able to pick maximum tier armor and generating any top level character, instead of being forced to level up and "catch" the items with the equivalent to right IVs; I still think WoW sucks for PvP but you see a pattern here too, don't ya?...).
Also nice to meet you: Mewtwo, sizechanging, and feet... we speak the same language.
Seems we both agree in regards to the disconnect that there is from the system we have, and the system we'd like to have.
If everything was done via simulator, then there would be no issue, but that wouldn't bode well with what Nintendo and GameFreak are seeking. It is what it is, and each side will do the best they can with the the options they feel they have.
And yes...we should get along quite well.
If everything was done via simulator, then there would be no issue, but that wouldn't bode well with what Nintendo and GameFreak are seeking. It is what it is, and each side will do the best they can with the the options they feel they have.
And yes...we should get along quite well.
"I hope that someday, the World Champion of one year's official Pokemon tournament, after collecting their prizes, annonces that their team was Pokesav'd and uses it as a platform to force the next generation of games to have more Trainer-friendly changes in going about training up a competitive team."
I can very much assume that guy would be disqualified for it.
I can very much assume that guy would be disqualified for it.
Note "after collecting their prizes". It wouldn't matter if Nintendo said the guy was disqualified, he'd still have the trophy and everything on his person to show he truly won that event. It's not like Nintendo would go beat down his door to get it back.
And wouldn't it be worth it to force a multi-billion dollar company to end up changing how it creates its games?
And wouldn't it be worth it to force a multi-billion dollar company to end up changing how it creates its games?
But the system IS broken - the fact that players are expected to pour in hundreds of hours to do something to add as something as miniscule as 3 or 4 points to a Pokemon's key stat rather than being able to complete a sidequest/minigame to fix that stat and get the "perfect" team together, that is not the sign of a system that isn't broken.
They've already confirmed they're adding a minigame that adds to a Pokemon's EVs. They need to do this for IVs.
They've already confirmed they're adding a minigame that adds to a Pokemon's EVs. They need to do this for IVs.
Just throwing this out there, they now have a way in x/y to change a pokemon's ability (barring dream world abilities I believe, which can be transferred regardless of gender now). Really hoping for IV manipulating though. .-. Nature is easy to just reset spam for legendaries (just have a spot free in team so you can check without leaving cave or w/e), but getting decent IVs on top is just not worth trying for with such low probability.
Comments