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Yes... I wasn't in my best mood when I made this... whatever...
And to a degree this can be extended to my opinion on MOST other clichés.
And to a degree this can be extended to my opinion on MOST other clichés.
Category Artwork (Digital) / Miscellaneous
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 571 x 1280px
File Size 50.3 kB
Yeah, it saddens me that they always make out reptiles to be bad guys in everything or at least one of the most violent, uncivilized characters.
I mean, why does it always have to be the others that are good but not the scalies? That's why I avoided games like Monster Hunter like the plague.
I mean, why does it always have to be the others that are good but not the scalies? That's why I avoided games like Monster Hunter like the plague.
I believe that it has already been done with the Spyro games.
I think that the game Nano-saur, feachering a rapter with a jetpack, has the player beeing a good guy. Or an Anti-hero. Idk.
I would like to see more games with reptilien heros other than making one in the elder scrolls games. (I always play as the Argonian. ALWAYS.)
I think that the game Nano-saur, feachering a rapter with a jetpack, has the player beeing a good guy. Or an Anti-hero. Idk.
I would like to see more games with reptilien heros other than making one in the elder scrolls games. (I always play as the Argonian. ALWAYS.)
I loved the spyro games but hero wise it falls into another category, the "super cute" one.
This is kinda another thing I see, dragons and reptiles can only be the heroes if they are super cute or the pets of humans, the few games where this is an exception are deep into obscurity.
This is kinda another thing I see, dragons and reptiles can only be the heroes if they are super cute or the pets of humans, the few games where this is an exception are deep into obscurity.
actually the only time it wouldn't be is if the whole world was populated my Reptiles then the villain is just the asshole the is fucking everyone over. I tend not to use reptiles like that I have to many scales as friends that it be and insult so I then to use some other animal or a human more often.
At least you guys get a role. How often does a taur character, any taur character serve as anything other then an extra in the background outside of the fandom? I personally only know of one time, and it was only at the request of the publishers...which ironically backfired on them when they tried making it a live-action series.
i already knew that :-P
and i am more than looking forward to it!
i can't wait to prove to the world that our anthro lizards, the argonians, are not only superior to the dunmer but also to dragons!
anyways... know much about the TES lore? the empire whorships nine divines which are being lead by Akatosh, a golden coloured dragon who's called "The Dragonlord of Time". and no, i don't care that they tried to give him a human form or something. he was a Dragon back in the days of Morrowind so he's a dragon, end of story!
anyways...
the Nords in Skyrim have their own version of Akatosh, a counter part if you will, named Alduin. unlike Akatosh however, Alduin isn't a benevolent deity but rather a "devourer of worlds" or something who shall devour the world on the day of the final judgement... or something like that. and he's most likely going to be our main antagonist.
i don't know about you friend, but i can't wait to set out as a sort of Paladin of Akatosh to show this Alduin-douche who's boss!
and i am more than looking forward to it!
i can't wait to prove to the world that our anthro lizards, the argonians, are not only superior to the dunmer but also to dragons!
anyways... know much about the TES lore? the empire whorships nine divines which are being lead by Akatosh, a golden coloured dragon who's called "The Dragonlord of Time". and no, i don't care that they tried to give him a human form or something. he was a Dragon back in the days of Morrowind so he's a dragon, end of story!
anyways...
the Nords in Skyrim have their own version of Akatosh, a counter part if you will, named Alduin. unlike Akatosh however, Alduin isn't a benevolent deity but rather a "devourer of worlds" or something who shall devour the world on the day of the final judgement... or something like that. and he's most likely going to be our main antagonist.
i don't know about you friend, but i can't wait to set out as a sort of Paladin of Akatosh to show this Alduin-douche who's boss!
The problem many people face is: alot has been done already. It's hard not to run into a cliche now. However I was looking at some art work someone else did awhile ago, they had an anthro snake as a hero but the guy still looked like the bad-guy. Look up the 'shape theory' pic by 
genesisw she talks about how sharp triangles and similar shapes are often seen as being sinister or mistrusted by nature. I think that is the reason alot of people like to use reptile characters as bad guys, because it's instinctive for most people to mistrust snakes and reptiles on sight. Though I'm highly for the idea of breaking cliches
genesisw she talks about how sharp triangles and similar shapes are often seen as being sinister or mistrusted by nature. I think that is the reason alot of people like to use reptile characters as bad guys, because it's instinctive for most people to mistrust snakes and reptiles on sight. Though I'm highly for the idea of breaking cliches 
I could say the same for the cliche for making humans into the villains for a furry story. More often then not, they're evil "because they're human durr!" Nevermind that making an anthro character imparts human traits on the creation, both physical and mental. So therefore we can't be all bad, otherwise the creator wouldn't have any concept of things like valor, honesty, and compassion to bestow upon his characters.
Honestly, I do kind of agree with this, but there's not much that can be done. I mean, Dragons basically, have been almost always portrayed as evil in various legends and fairy tales. I guess people like the carry on the tradition or something. Reptiles in general, you got me there. Probably some old cartoons and stories, but...eh. At least there's some good reptilian characters in the media.
I do agree that it is a bit overdone, but...doesn't exactly bother me THAT much. It's just something people do.
I do agree that it is a bit overdone, but...doesn't exactly bother me THAT much. It's just something people do.
The perception of dragons in human culture changes dramatically depending on where you are and at what point in time. The Ancient Chinese and the Ancient English had two totally different views on dragons. One was a wise and powerful being, one was a menacing beast out to destroy all of humanity.
I have to say that I disagree. No offense, but your view of clichés is a huge misunderstanding. As a writer, I can safely say clichés are not something that have to be feared or disgusted at.
It's not the cliché itself is bad. It's the way that it is handled that can make it terrible. What makes a cilché bad if nothing develops beyond the cliché. (I.E. The reptilian character is evil for the sake of being evil or a reason that is cliché.) Clichés can be used as the foundation for characters where they'll eventually have a more developed reason for the cliché or they grow out of it. It is possible to make something old feel like new again.
Sorry if this bothers you, but this is a pet peeve of mine.
It's not the cliché itself is bad. It's the way that it is handled that can make it terrible. What makes a cilché bad if nothing develops beyond the cliché. (I.E. The reptilian character is evil for the sake of being evil or a reason that is cliché.) Clichés can be used as the foundation for characters where they'll eventually have a more developed reason for the cliché or they grow out of it. It is possible to make something old feel like new again.
Sorry if this bothers you, but this is a pet peeve of mine.
lol "Reptiles Are Abhorrent": http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p.....esAreAbhorrent
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p.....esAreAbhorrent
I think there's a few aversions and subversions listed on that link.
But yeah unless they are a dragon (which is still a 50-50 chance of being evil), most reptiles are almost always portrayed as evil.
Insects and arachnids of all types don't get it any better either.
I think there's a few aversions and subversions listed on that link.
But yeah unless they are a dragon (which is still a 50-50 chance of being evil), most reptiles are almost always portrayed as evil.
Insects and arachnids of all types don't get it any better either.
Good writing makes the antagonists' motives make sense. Thus removing it from the cliche space. It's quite easy to make a reptilian character look like an aggressor. It's not easy making their motives for being aggressive seem natural and part of who they are. Or even that there are possibly others of their same ilk who aren't the same as that one example held out for all to see.
Yea good point.
I generally HATE using an "easy enemy" or a "stupid enemy".
Easy Enemy is pretty much one you can put up as the bad guys without needing to explain WHY he's the bad guy, guess the prime example there is Nazis, you don't need to explain ANYTHING, just say "they're nazis" and done.
Stupid Enemy is when you attempt an easy enemy but it fails. (not that easy enemy itself isn't a failure already)
I generally HATE using an "easy enemy" or a "stupid enemy".
Easy Enemy is pretty much one you can put up as the bad guys without needing to explain WHY he's the bad guy, guess the prime example there is Nazis, you don't need to explain ANYTHING, just say "they're nazis" and done.
Stupid Enemy is when you attempt an easy enemy but it fails. (not that easy enemy itself isn't a failure already)
It's simple, it's the lack of Mammalian empathy. Cold blooded = Bad! Warm blooded = Good! Bucky O' Hare, despite being something I grew up with and actually quite liked was a perfect example: the villains were all reptiles/amphibians. The heroes were all mammals, or birds I think, it's been a while.
not just scalies, i absolutely hate it when any entire species gets labeled as 'evil'. i mean, what the hell? Or for that matter, any entire group of anything, race, nation, subculture. it's not realistic. sure, you may have a few bad apples that give the rest a bad name, but any group that gets labeled as inherently bad, with none of them having redeeming qualities, is utterly rediculous.
I've come to learn that most game designers/ fantasy writers just can NOT wrap their minds around non human creatures as doing anything but standing around waiting to kill and pillage. I think its certainly a part lazyness and fear of having to create actual back story about creatures that have always been easy fodder for every Joe Chess Piece on an XP grind. I've seen people play D&D who actually factually just want the same old thing over and over and over: Dwarves, Elves, & Humans in a little cluster running around and stabbing stuff. C'mon who wants fantasy to involve actual fantasizing?! 9_9
Yeah, it annoys me too. And speaking from a mythological standpoint it's more or less incorrect as well.
To be specific though it's not reptilian characters in general, but rather snake or a mythological blend of creatures (often simply called chimeras) almost always have some sort of serpentine traits in them, and in fact dragons are chimeras - lion body, eagle claws, and a serpent's head (the bat wings was a later added feature).
And they actually don't so much represent evil as evil was more reserved for sentient beings (often deities or servants of evil deities), but rather serpents and chimeras represented chaos and were often a symbolic representation of this. There is actually a name for this complex - it's called 'chaoskampf'. Although quite ancient, it became really popular with the Greeks and Christians and that is why it is so well known today. In fact, by original definition a dragon is supposed to be a large serpent representing a force of chaos*, but eventually dragons became so varied and popular that they lost this defining trait was lost.
What I'm getting at is this: it really depends on the context. One on hand you have the ancient use of serpents and reptiles who are mindless savage killing machines being used as symbolic avatars for chaos, and on the other hand you have the 'modern' dragons who are sentient and, like humans, tend to vary greatly in personality although they are often with traits like wisdom, pride, and short tempers. Unfortunately most people erroneously clump chaos and evil together since they don't really understand the difference, and lo and behold they misinterpret ancient legends and seem to think that snakes and dragons equal evil.
And that's the ancient history of serpents/dragons in a nut shell. Culturally speaking reptiles are often made evil because they were frequently antagonistic in ancient European cultures. That's just how they are generally seen still today being one of the oldest stereotypes in human history. It doesn't bother me that much that people still use it, but I do agree that it is severely overdone and is indeed a cliché... but clichés usually sell well unfortunately because they connect with the audience.
And naturally we furries, by definition, put more value on nonhumans more than most people. The sad truth is humans are considered grossly superior to anything nonhuman and thus the reason why a lot of antagonists are nonhuman - because killing a nonhuman is generally considered more 'ok'. This coupled with a classic animal for being antagonists and thus you have your reason for why this cliché is so frequently used.
*(And yes, this means that technically speaking Chinese 'dragons' are not actually dragons - they were labeled dragons by Europeans and it just stuck that way)
To be specific though it's not reptilian characters in general, but rather snake or a mythological blend of creatures (often simply called chimeras) almost always have some sort of serpentine traits in them, and in fact dragons are chimeras - lion body, eagle claws, and a serpent's head (the bat wings was a later added feature).
And they actually don't so much represent evil as evil was more reserved for sentient beings (often deities or servants of evil deities), but rather serpents and chimeras represented chaos and were often a symbolic representation of this. There is actually a name for this complex - it's called 'chaoskampf'. Although quite ancient, it became really popular with the Greeks and Christians and that is why it is so well known today. In fact, by original definition a dragon is supposed to be a large serpent representing a force of chaos*, but eventually dragons became so varied and popular that they lost this defining trait was lost.
What I'm getting at is this: it really depends on the context. One on hand you have the ancient use of serpents and reptiles who are mindless savage killing machines being used as symbolic avatars for chaos, and on the other hand you have the 'modern' dragons who are sentient and, like humans, tend to vary greatly in personality although they are often with traits like wisdom, pride, and short tempers. Unfortunately most people erroneously clump chaos and evil together since they don't really understand the difference, and lo and behold they misinterpret ancient legends and seem to think that snakes and dragons equal evil.
And that's the ancient history of serpents/dragons in a nut shell. Culturally speaking reptiles are often made evil because they were frequently antagonistic in ancient European cultures. That's just how they are generally seen still today being one of the oldest stereotypes in human history. It doesn't bother me that much that people still use it, but I do agree that it is severely overdone and is indeed a cliché... but clichés usually sell well unfortunately because they connect with the audience.
And naturally we furries, by definition, put more value on nonhumans more than most people. The sad truth is humans are considered grossly superior to anything nonhuman and thus the reason why a lot of antagonists are nonhuman - because killing a nonhuman is generally considered more 'ok'. This coupled with a classic animal for being antagonists and thus you have your reason for why this cliché is so frequently used.
*(And yes, this means that technically speaking Chinese 'dragons' are not actually dragons - they were labeled dragons by Europeans and it just stuck that way)
Blame that one work of fiction, you know the one.
Oh and http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p.....esAreAbhorrent
Oh and http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p.....esAreAbhorrent
Well, if it helps any... Khameleon, a Mortal Kombat character, is a member of the same species as Reptile, the Raptors, and she is portrayed as a heroine, her main goal to free Reptile from evil control.
Reptile himself isn't necessarily a bad guy either, he just has REALLY bad judgement...
Reptile himself isn't necessarily a bad guy either, he just has REALLY bad judgement...
You've got a point, though the cliche does have some truth to it.
Watching a snake eat a mouse, one might reasonably assume the snake would do the same to humans if it were big enough.
Combine it with the unusual ways reptiles move and think...and it can be creepy and evil.
If it is any consolation, somewhere out there, a race of large reptilians is writing cliche fiction about evil ape-like creatures, what with the whole misunderstanding running both ways.
Watching a snake eat a mouse, one might reasonably assume the snake would do the same to humans if it were big enough.
Combine it with the unusual ways reptiles move and think...and it can be creepy and evil.
If it is any consolation, somewhere out there, a race of large reptilians is writing cliche fiction about evil ape-like creatures, what with the whole misunderstanding running both ways.
Kann ich dir nur zustimmen - und die Liste der Klischees die das Verdient haben ist lang.
Zwei Gegenbeispiele wären die Echsenmenschen aus Warhammer Fantasy, wo sie eins der wenigen wirklich guten Völker sind, und zu einem gewissen Grad die Ssrathi aus Warlords Battlecry 3, wo sie auch eins der freundlicheren neutralen Völker sind, Drachen tauchen auf allen Seiten auf.
Zwei Gegenbeispiele wären die Echsenmenschen aus Warhammer Fantasy, wo sie eins der wenigen wirklich guten Völker sind, und zu einem gewissen Grad die Ssrathi aus Warlords Battlecry 3, wo sie auch eins der freundlicheren neutralen Völker sind, Drachen tauchen auf allen Seiten auf.
Blame the bible, there is a deep rooted fear of snakes and scalies in humans due to venom that some species carry which is deadly to humans. This fear is a instinctual response to a once immanent danger, however, the bible has taken this further by lopping in Satan into the mix so... well, I dont need to tell you.
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're blowing it out of proportion.
and also: it's not just reptilians, it's pretty much anything that's 'not human'.
Look at Dungeons and Dragons: All of the core races are humans. Dwarves are short stocky humans, Elves are tall (or short) elegant humans, Halflings are humans scaled down, Gnomes are humans with big heads and smallish bodies and Half orcs are really ugly brutish humans.
Rats are evil 99% of the time. the only notable rat I can think of is Trip from Kingmaker, and he's a wererat rogue, so he's skirting the line between good and evil.
Beast men are consistently the bad guy in many works of fantasy for really no conceivable reason.
and you know what?
Humans are the villain in much of fiction involving many stranger races - they're dicks for no concievable reason.
In Star Wars the empire is prety much exclusively made up of racist humans.
in Oblivion Humans have Argonian and Kaijit slaves - and treat them like shit.
etc :V
and also: it's not just reptilians, it's pretty much anything that's 'not human'.
Look at Dungeons and Dragons: All of the core races are humans. Dwarves are short stocky humans, Elves are tall (or short) elegant humans, Halflings are humans scaled down, Gnomes are humans with big heads and smallish bodies and Half orcs are really ugly brutish humans.
Rats are evil 99% of the time. the only notable rat I can think of is Trip from Kingmaker, and he's a wererat rogue, so he's skirting the line between good and evil.
Beast men are consistently the bad guy in many works of fantasy for really no conceivable reason.
and you know what?
Humans are the villain in much of fiction involving many stranger races - they're dicks for no concievable reason.
In Star Wars the empire is prety much exclusively made up of racist humans.
in Oblivion Humans have Argonian and Kaijit slaves - and treat them like shit.
etc :V
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