Seems like a tight bird.

It's an interesting one, but the proportions are awkward.

China is known to be working on other 5th-gen warplanes, so it's possible that the next one they reveal will be a LOT more agile --- it's been suggested by observers that rather than an air Superiority Fighter like the F-22, the J-20 may be a Striker line the F-15E.

Hmm. We'll see, I guess.

Rewrite the book? XD lol puh-lease! Stealth isn't new anymore... unlike the introduction of the MiG-15 when certain design aspects were unknown to us (and the short sighted sale of a single good Rolls Royce engine), we - well, the US - knows the stealth game, the T50 and 'J-20' (as the west calls it) still have a fair way to go...each with challenges (the T50 its software since the russians neglected it after 89, the J-20 design and software).

Well like the T50, this is the prototype so may look different from the final produce - or maybe its even just a concept for tech and industry.

lol to me, its like the MiG1.144 and rafale had a bastard love child... its huge; bigger than any 5th gen fighter, and they have thrown rear aspect stealth totally to the wind.

The problem is with this post is that much of the info isn't known, your making calculated guesses, the chineese are even more secretive than the russians are - we didn't know what T50 truely looked like until Shukoi chose to let us see her (lol or 'him' as they'd say). So I am rather skepticle at how this has leaked as such - and it was a leak...air enthusiasts hanging around by the perimeter fence....the officials let them do that, plus on the initial photos an offical was looking right at the photographer... suspicious! If it was really a serious job, they'd be tighter on security.
Maybe a message to Taiwan? - who at this period had a massive arms deal and were live fireing their SAMs (mostly the Hawk SAM)... and of course, Sec of Defence Gates visit to china.

Either way, they still have a long way, I am just pleased to see new designs making an appearance.
But capability wise...and agility and performace, way too little info... and from looks, I'd agree by your presumption that it wouldn't be much of a performer.
There has even been reports of F-117 style design aspects from pieces lifted from the nighthawk shot-down in Kosovo...

Much like the russians, its the systems and avionics thats gonna be the main rough road for them, the industry - though quick and advanced - isnt as well in place as ours, what will be interesting is - is there any co-op between these two new types?

Their AWAC performance is more of a grey area, they have made leaps - from 'canoe' types through to A50 mutations (with a lot of help from israel and shadey dealings with Russia)...also to mention ship-bourne AEW much like our own sea-kings.
Then there is their 'anti carrier' missile... that is the biggest military concern atm, since its another take on the old soviet 'carrier busting' move of swarming defences with high energy and exploves missiles.

Perhaps the J-20 is to fight off the aircraft sent to intercept these missiles, increaseing the chance of sending George Bush to the depths? A scary thought!

Indeed, they are making climbs... but there's still a way to go... and chinas defence spending is still small compared to uncle sams...

What I'm waiting for is what will happen when either Taiwan wants to update its military - or what happens when chinas growth and economic power overtakes the US's...and it will happen, as surely as when the worlds population reaches 7 Billion. (lol alllllmost there!)

...we - well, the US - knows the stealth game, the T50 and 'J-20' (as the west calls it) still have a fair way to go...each with challenges (the T50 its software since the russians neglected it after 89, the J-20 design and software).
We don't know how to deal with Stealth when the *enemy* has it. US military equipment, strategy, and TTP to counter hostile Stealth aircraft are non-existent, because we've gotten to comfy with the belief that we have a monopoly of them.


Well like the T50, this is the prototype so may look different from the final produce - or maybe its even just a concept for tech and industry.
Perhaps so, but it demonstrates that China has the capability to manufacture and operate stealth aircraft.


lol to me, its like the MiG1.144 and rafale had a bastard love child... its huge; bigger than any 5th gen fighter, and they have thrown rear aspect stealth totally to the wind.
That's why it has been widely suggested that the J-20 is in fact a Striker, rather than a Fighter --- which is some ways, makes it even more dangerous. You can squeeze a HUGE amount of bombs into an airframe that large.


The problem is with this post is that much of the info isn't known, your making calculated guesses, the chineese are even more secretive than the russians are...
These are estimates, based upon the known attributes of existing similar airframes, not guesses. Not that it guarantees the J-20's attributes will all fall neatly into these specs, though.


...we didn't know what T50 truely looked like until Shukoi chose to let us see her (lol or 'him' as they'd say).
We did; http://www.islandcrisis.net/wp-cont...../sukhoit50.jpg
We just didn't believe Sukhoi when they posted images of the model on their site, way back in the mid-2000s.


So I am rather skepticle at how this has leaked as such - and it was a leak...air enthusiasts hanging around by the perimeter fence....the officials let them do that, plus on the initial photos an offical was looking right at the photographer... suspicious! If it was really a serious job, they'd be tighter on security.
It might also be true that the J-20 program is much farther along than the PLAAF is letting-on. They would never have gone through with all this if they weren't confident that it could fly for 15 minutes without crashing, after all.


Maybe a message to Taiwan? - who at this period had a massive arms deal and were live fireing their SAMs (mostly the Hawk SAM)... and of course, Sec of Defence Gates visit to china.
Knowing what Taiwan's air defenses include (and more importantly, what they DON'T include), the J-20 would be an unusually elaborate bluff. The Mirage 2000, F-16, CK-1, and Hawk SAM don't exactly warrant a 5th-gen Stealth Fighter to overcome.
Nor does the Patriot SAM, which has so far demonstrated that it can only engage and destroy FRIENDLY aircraft.


There has even been reports of F-117 style design aspects from pieces lifted from the nighthawk shot-down in Kosovo...
I've heard those as well, but the primary Stealth attribute of the F-117 Nighthawk is it's shape --- and the J-20 has none of it.


Much like the russians, its the systems and avionics thats gonna be the main rough road for them, the industry - though quick and advanced - isnt as well in place as ours, what will be interesting is - is there any co-op between these two new types?
I wouldn't underestimate the Russians' prowess with Stealth, though. The *inventor* of Stealth himself --- Petr Yakovlevich Ufimtsev --- was a Soviet scientist who published his findings and principles in 1962.


Then there is their 'anti carrier' missile... that is the biggest military concern atm, since its another take on the old soviet 'carrier busting' move of swarming defences with high energy and exploves missiles.
You mean the DF-21D? An "Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile" is an oxymoron, because Ballistic Missiles are NOT homing weapons. They use a gyrocompass to fly into a given AREA, and then employ lookdown radar to identify and attack a LOCATION --- not a tiny, moving warship, which is an individual TARGET.
Or to put it another way, when in the entire 60+ year history of the Ballistic Missile has there EVER been an operational ASBM before now? Simply put, it's not a workable solution. It can't be done.
The only *real* threat the DF-21D poses is as a bluff, that prevents ultra-paranoid, career-conscious US flag officers and ship commanders (who haven't the slightest grasp of the capabilities and limitations of Ballistic Missiles) from ever venturing near China. The Chinese know the moral and mental ignorance, cowardice, and incompetence that form the intellectual foundation of the (Br)asshat, and how to exploit it to their advantage.


Perhaps the J-20 is to fight off the aircraft sent to intercept these missiles, increaseing the chance of sending George Bush to the depths? A scary thought!
Like I suggested above, it could very well be a Striker, rather than a Fighter --- possibly a Maritime Striker, to replace the woefully inadequate JH-7 Flounder, which entered service almost 2 decades too late to matter.


Indeed, they are making climbs... but there's still a way to go... and chinas defence spending is still small compared to uncle sams...
China's defense budget is small, because they only spend money on projects they feel are necessary --- in the Pentagon, necessity is an unknown concept.
For example, the USAF's "necessary" expenditure of counter-terrorism funding; http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.....071703161.html
Then there's the "necessity" of having more general and flag officers than ever before, to command less enlisted personnel than ever before, and FIVE officers for every enlisted;
http://pogoarchives.org/m/ns/office.....t-19980301.pdf
...the "necessity" of two GOLF COURSES at every US military base;
http://www.johntreed.com/workhardplayhard.html
...and all the "necessary" facilities at Camp Bondsteel, with similar "necessities" found at vitrually *every* US military base;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bondsteel
I could go on and on and on, but I think you get the point.

lol no I dont XD Some of your points are moot;

Its still a prototype; its main weakness - as with all their designs - are the engines, it will be interesting since there are two prototypes with differing engines - the general concensus. Maybe the problems encountered with the long development of the J10 will be used in this? If it goes into production. ATM seems they have tried two J10 engines together, that doesnt look like they work as well.

Also I very much doubt its use as a strike platform... maybe as much as the F-22 is... it looks advanced in R&D; more so than the T50, but remember all we have to go by is the pictures...semi official ones... its agility looks very doubtful considering the engines - and possible ones their using - are inadequate for the size of the airframe.

Also, the F-117's and F-22's stealth was/is also the coatings, the intake and efflux jetpipes and how they are 'hidden', the flaps, the dog-tooth serrated faps and bay doors, the 'stealth paint' which caused numerous burns and gassings when they carelessly burnt the waste at groom... also flight profile and speed (these latter two were a good case when two F-22's were locked up in a BVR fight by a typhoon, something the DoD and MoD quickly covered), weather and the capability of the defending radar, the systems carried onbourd, the electronic and heat emmissions given out... its a longer list than simply shape; stealth can easily be thrown away if the pilot carelessly flies like he's in an airshow...Shape does have a good aspect to it but is part of a larger picture... the designers hard work on the J-20's frontal stealth appear to be mitigated by the engines and rear... why work so hard on angles and stealth when any IRST can track it down? Something carried on all modern aircraft and SAMs - bar it seems, currently the USN's. What you see there wont be the final propulsion units and afterburners... some say they are even russian engines uprated specially for it...and even those are still inadequate for the size - unless its super light which is doubtful.

It screams 'long range/endurance' Fighter...maybe with light strike like the F-22.

My opinion is that its a long range Strike Fighter... like a 4.5th gen Tornado or F-15E... or the Su-30, to reach out over to the huge tracks of ocean and land china claims, optimized to provide fighter support flying long range flight profiles over land 100's of miles away from china, and merely a few hundred K's from arguing neighbours like Vietnam. To ensure air-superiority. And perhaps not meant yet to come against high end and tech 5th gen fighters like the F-22 or T50 (because of its lack of rear aspect)...yet anyway.
Also, due to its lack of agility and rear spect stelth; I reckon that like the F-22, it'll be meant/great for BVR fights.

Also,youmistook me there I did not say 'ballistic missiles' - I meant dedicated Anti-ship missiles; cruise missiles... much like the powerful 'kitchen' series of missiles the soviets/russians developed, the exocet and harpoon... and they are feared, let me tell you that... enough to warrent an entire ship class to be produced...the Aegis and Type 45 (though the latter one is more anti aircraft)

Like last posts, I am not gonna exchange long exchanges on this site, wrong place, contact me by note if ya wanna argue some more XD

Only 180 F-22s were built because the Cold War ended and politics set in. Our fleet of F-15s are sometimes older than the pilots that fly them and even the F-22 is ultimately a 20+ year-old design. The F-35 program is supposed to take up the slack for the limited number of F-22s, but politics are once again setting it and despite the intent for the F-35 to replace nearly every 4th gen combat aircraft in our, and many allied, inventories there's open talk of cutting the program.

Unfortunately, the F-35 is a bad design, and the more it gets developed, the worse it gets. It´s also too expensive, way too expensive. The amount of money that´s been wasted on it is humongous. The only real alternative (which isn´t perfect either) is to pick up the F-22 again and allow that to be freed up for export. Now that there´s the possibility of russian and chinese 5th gen stealth fighters as well as supercruising 4.5 gen fighters around, there´s no reason to hold back on exporting the F-22 anymore.

Compared to the J-31, a very overweight plane. Some guess it´s more like a single seater stealth F-111 or SU-24 type of an airplane. I doubt that they engineered this with combatting fighter radar in mind: they are worried about air defenses on the ground, as well as AWACs type threats.

Especially considering how little effort they seem to have put into some aspects of the stealth design of this (Airpower Australia did a specularity study on the shaping of the aircraft, and found it lacking in many regards, but especially the front aspect seemed to be good enough to warrant "low observability" marks.), they seem to put a lot of faith into the weapons this will carry, and them putting out whatever could threaten the plane on the return flight.

That assumes no or low supercruise and ceiling, though. And those really are the trump cards of the F-22 so far, as well as the new Flankers that will come in the next couple of years. I´ve heard Indias next generation of Sukhois will be equipped with new Engines allowing for Supercruise: they won´t even need planes like this against the competing F-16/F-18 types used in the region: and even Japans F-15 fleet would be seriously hard pressed surviving against modern, supercruising Flankers with TVC, new Radars (Phazotron is working on a big phased array for the T-50 that is supposed to be available as an upgrade for older Sukhois too, I think.) and firing mix-and-matched high performance, off boresight capable AA Missles. If Japans government -really- goes overboard in the next election cycle and they pull trough on their promise of amending the constitution to remove the D from the JSDF, retracting all apologies for WW2 atrocities issued to China and persist in their claim on the contested Islands, we may see the so far flawless combat record of the F-15 tarnished at last.

And unless their fighter training and equipment is of much lower quality than expected, they won´t even need these stealth types.

Also, as far as the all aspect stealth is concerned, this isn´t any worse than the F-35. The F-22 will, unless allowed to return to production and be sold for export, turn into a footnote. Everybody is buying F-35s left and right, including many nations that will face these types of planes in the near future, such as Australia, the US and the UK. And with a dog as the F-35 on the horizon, their competitor aircraft don´t even need to be good. And if they can produce a cheap stealth aircraft en masse, there´ll be lots of dictators happy to purchase a couple, for boasting and deterrence.

It does seem a lot more like a Striker than an Air Superiority Fighter, and that in itself is still very worrying --- it would make this aircraft an agile, supersonic, high-payload version of the F-117 Nighthawk.