I understand what you're saying here, but if you look at how it's been going, to have someone who's a biological male that identifies as trans to play in female sports just doesn't bring a level of fairness to the playing field in women's sports. Biologically, males are better at certain sports than biological females when it comes strength and/or stamina and to have a trans person who is born male compete against females has shown that those same trans people have beaten the females in the past. It's not that I'm against trans people competing in sports because I know people who are also trans, but even they agree that it should be biological males play in men's sports while biological females play in women's sports. Those are just my two cents on things towards trans wanting to play sports.

As a trans athlete I am very up on this topic and here are a few things for thought with out me just flooding the comments with study after study that debunks what you have said. That can be droll and honestly stops a convo before it starts.

Of course as someone who is transmasc I am on the 'other' side. But even before T, even before I was out, I played on boys teams because I went to such a small school district they didn't have a girls equivalent. I did just fine, I got scholarships and even made states not once but twice
in Wrestling.

With children, I mean literal children before adolescents it does not matter. It really doesn't. The biological advantage that so many people lean on are negligible at absolute best. Same with most of what is middle and high-school age, so 12-15. 16 and up is where I can see your side...potentially.

This also branches into the HRT and puberty blockers. But with adults, who I play with. There are transwomen on my hockey team and in just the 2 years many of them have been on E, with NO androgen blockers, they have lost so much mass that the only 'advantage' they may have is height.

But this negates that skill and genuine talent many cis women have. I have seen our trans women get slaughtered on the ice by cis women. Not just in skill but physical dominace even in a no check leauge.

There is a transfem football/soccer league who plays against ciswomen...and lose...by a good margin.

Further, most people won't be pro. Most won't even get close enough to be scouted to play for university let alone semi or pro leauges.

Sports build so much for so many people, from basic physical capability that aids in day to day life to social skills. Baring a whole ass group from that is just plain wrong.

And of course its always transwomen who are the focus. But this isn't new. Transwomen competing isn't new. It's just in the forefront. Take a good solid look and find those people dominating then come back and talk. If you honestly find astronomical evidence that transwomen are just constantly wiping the floor with cis women that would be news to me and the many scientific studies on this very topic

And what I mean when I say ' this negates the skill of cis women'

What I mean is a stance like yours and many others does not protect cis women. It just doesn't. It belittles them and the hard work they put into their athletic abilities more than a transwomen does.

Again I wrestled before I started T, as I started late in my 20s. You know who fucking hard I worked to be able to keep up with cis boys? I would have been absolutely livid if someone belittled all that hard work just because transwomen exist. That's how I viewed it before I transitioned two years ago
This whole argument basically rings as 'oh poor (cis) women, let big strong men protect them'

That is so insulting.

And further androgen blockers are required for trans women to participate in the Olympics and pro leauges who allow transwomen...so if transwomen see significat loss in muscular ability before that what do you think happens when that occurs?

Here is a hit. It puts them well into the measured acceptable range for women, on par with cis women. And they, just like cia women, have to relay on hard work, dedication, skill and unfortunately genetics (but you know someone's genetic advantage is not something we talk about)

So again...if they meet the requirments...like I did (had to be 2 years on T before I could play in a men's leauge) and many others...let. them. Play.

Also me play in biological women's teams?

Yeah I am sure that would go over well. Same for a number of transmen I know on my hockey team. We are men. We play with men.
Transwomen are women, they play with women.

Both sides have to meet requirements.
The only time this changes is for coed sports

I appreciate the backstory, but what you said wasn't what my main point was. Sure, cis women can best transwomen, but that doesn't always happen. What I was getting about was in professional sports, so if this was on the main topic of sports in general, then that would be a different story and discussion. I agree not everyone plays pro, but that was what my message focused towards and not just casually playing. What I was going for was that from what I've seen talked about in sports with biological males identifying as trans competing in women's sports have ended up dominating because, again, their biological structure as a male with the proper training allowed them to win. I'm not here to bash on trans people or their right to play sports. I'm just uncertain how when it comes to playing professionally can provide an unfair advantage to one team in women's sports because one or more players are biological males which, with the proper training and exercises, can help them cause a guaranteed win in some cases. Again, I'm not throwing shade at you or trans people wanting to play sports. I'm just giving my views on trans people wanting to play in, let's say, women's sports, even in a professional sense.

I...I did address pro sports
This is where those studys would really hurt your view because those studies are on professional (collegiate and above) athletes

So you didn't read fully. Requirements are in place. If they are met, transwomen can compete at those levels. If not? Guess what? They cant

I did actually, and to say it would "hurt my views" is a bit far fetched. It's also a bit of a stretch to make it seem like I don't realize that requirements are needed in order to play a sport. I would know because I've played sports before I hit my teen years. As for transwomen competing, ya they could play if they are met, but my point still stands about gaining an advantage in some areas that come off as unfair. Sorry if I don't agree with you, but that's just my view of things when it comes to trans playing in women's sports. Let's just leave it at that and agree to disagree

First one to pop on Google

Best thing for your argument is speed retention, everything else falls well into cis women ranges

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577

This study/article shows that this is not new. In 2003 these standards were created at the Olympic level for trans and cis athletes alike
https://academic.oup.com/jes/articl.....vac035/6550171

I could go on

Here is the reality, lifes not fair.

If you are a true elite athlete you are not the one really complaining. Minus a few. You know what it takes, what is required, ect.

This has been in place for years but is now coming up again because people want to 'protect women's when really it's a political move to attack other transfolks just living their life.

So yes. Let transfolks play sports at any level so long as they meet the requirements just like every one else

Clearly, you don't understand where I was even going with my comments and instead make me come off like I'm naiive when I was simply just giving my two cents on the matter. I kindly gave my piece of things and since this wasn't going in the right direction between you and me over our opinions, I decided to simply end it and just leave it at that. However, instead of you doing the same, you continue running your mouth and claim that this is some political stunt against trans people, which is just absurd. There's just no point talking to people like you when you can't just accept that everyone has an opinion on a matter like this and leave it at that without turning it into one big discussion/argument over who's right and who's wrong. I could care less, but my opinion on this is my own whether others agree or not

Oh no, I do. You are entitled to your option. But sorry mate, you came on my page and opened your mouth with your two cents. I gave it back. It wasn't an argument but its clear you never really thought about it. You claim you have transfriends who agree with your point. And while I'm not saying that's not true, this is a common tactic.

I live this everyday, as do my transfem teammates. You just have an opinion.

I could very well say the same for you, when it comes to no point in talking to people like you.
Opinions are one thing, human rights are another. Transpeople are just that, people. We are not debatable and so long as we met the requirements, there is no reason to bar us from sports.

Kindly step off my page, I won't block people over this, but you are not welcome here.

Hi, trans-man here, I obv see what your point is here, but remember that people react differently to HRT and that, even though people loose mass, most still have other biologic things that can give someone an advantage (like bigger hearts that pump better, better lung capacity, etc). Also, keep in mind that just because some people can play on the same level is not due to biological "enhancements", some people just aren't great at sports and that's on both sides, no matter what they're doing and how, wich is a key component in all of this. I am all for trans folk doing sports and participate 100%, however, we might need a system for measuring/establishing strength and abilities/skills. I'm so glad I ended up choosing equestrian in which men and women compete against each other on the same field, one of the few sports where this is possible (:

That's why I briefly touched on genetics.

No one mentions some elite cis athletes advantages. Just look at anyone in the Olympics and you will not be hard pressed to find a cis women who has 'male' features like broad shoulders, more lung capacity, ect.

Same with cis men.

So while yes I absolutely agree that everyone reacts differently that doesn't change there are already requirements in place for transathletes.
There is a system already, can it be improved? Possible. But trans athletes have been in the Olympics since 2003, again this isn't as new as the political sphere would male it seem

I've never seen anyone seriously object to ftm's competing in men's sports.

True, the worst I got was when I tried for a rugby leauge in Michigan they said I had to be 2 years on T to play, for safty reasons and leauge rules.

Which cool, I get

Transmen are really on a totally different feild when it comes to this whole topic. But I definitely have been told, not by a leauge or a team, that I should not be on the ice or feild. I have had boxing matches with men cancelled once it was found out that I was trans.
Thats honestly about the worst its been for me. I could also very well just be lucky across the boardwith who I have found and all that

Nintendo: we would like to play