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Further study sketches related to Andur. One of the nice things about pencil sketching is that I can do it even when I don't have the time, gumption, money to do other types of art. Some copy paper and a mechanical pencil and I am good. This why their has been so much black and white stuff recently on FA.
These are studies of some the weapons styles that the Valhaullan Vikings carry in Andur. Now Andur is in the 14th century so in many ways the Vikings are anachronisms since by the 14th century the days of the Vikings had passed in our world. However in the corners of my subconscious they are still going strong! This does mean though that much of their equipment is somewhat "antique" in nature already.
Many of them still wield the classic broadsword that made the Vikings so famous. Although some either out of preference or necessity have started using the more typical Medieval European broadsword instead. The smaller single edge one on the bottom is a larger version of the Sax which is a weapon that ranged in size from small dagger to short sword in length
Even more important than the sword, the spear is integral part of every Viking's arsenal. Their are a multitude of styles with and without wings on the shaft. The smaller ones at the bottom are styles of javelin heads. It is interesting how their designs mimic in many way arrowheads.
These are studies of some the weapons styles that the Valhaullan Vikings carry in Andur. Now Andur is in the 14th century so in many ways the Vikings are anachronisms since by the 14th century the days of the Vikings had passed in our world. However in the corners of my subconscious they are still going strong! This does mean though that much of their equipment is somewhat "antique" in nature already.
Many of them still wield the classic broadsword that made the Vikings so famous. Although some either out of preference or necessity have started using the more typical Medieval European broadsword instead. The smaller single edge one on the bottom is a larger version of the Sax which is a weapon that ranged in size from small dagger to short sword in length
Even more important than the sword, the spear is integral part of every Viking's arsenal. Their are a multitude of styles with and without wings on the shaft. The smaller ones at the bottom are styles of javelin heads. It is interesting how their designs mimic in many way arrowheads.
Category All / All
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Size 699 x 994px
File Size 61.4 kB
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/art...../text/arms.htm
Takes up where Osprey books leave off. Those crazy non-SCAdians.
Takes up where Osprey books leave off. Those crazy non-SCAdians.
A nitpick for me as a former professional knifemaker is bevel lines on drawings of blades.
The seax has a line drawn right near it's cutting edge- that would indicate a shallow chisel edge, rather than a true cutting bevel.
Actually quite hard to achieve on a forged blade-that kind of bevel has almost no real cutting ability, because its a tiny edge on an almost flat blade.
(This kind of bevel is very common in modern made knives, where the usual method of manufacture is to grind them from flat stock from a steel mill instead of forging them from a lump of iron.)
I've been doing a buttload of research the last several months on weapons of that period in order to make some Norse and Anglo Saxon knives for some living history folks, so it kind of sticks out to me.
The swords have one detail I'll mention too-
The central fullers have a bevel line down their center.
Fullers are forged in place, so they are just a round bottomed groove in real life.
To make a beveled fuller would actually require filing or grinding the sharp edge after forging.
It can be done-but its a LOT of extra work for no benefit whatsoever beyond the cosmetic.
Not meaning to sound like a dick here, its just that since this relates to my former profession very intimately, things like this drive me nuts when I see them on otherwise excellent renders.
-Badger-
The seax has a line drawn right near it's cutting edge- that would indicate a shallow chisel edge, rather than a true cutting bevel.
Actually quite hard to achieve on a forged blade-that kind of bevel has almost no real cutting ability, because its a tiny edge on an almost flat blade.
(This kind of bevel is very common in modern made knives, where the usual method of manufacture is to grind them from flat stock from a steel mill instead of forging them from a lump of iron.)
I've been doing a buttload of research the last several months on weapons of that period in order to make some Norse and Anglo Saxon knives for some living history folks, so it kind of sticks out to me.
The swords have one detail I'll mention too-
The central fullers have a bevel line down their center.
Fullers are forged in place, so they are just a round bottomed groove in real life.
To make a beveled fuller would actually require filing or grinding the sharp edge after forging.
It can be done-but its a LOT of extra work for no benefit whatsoever beyond the cosmetic.
Not meaning to sound like a dick here, its just that since this relates to my former profession very intimately, things like this drive me nuts when I see them on otherwise excellent renders.
-Badger-
Yes. I have a very nice double-fullered blade, and they were forged. I paid a pretty penny for that piece, and it's one of my favorites. I think the smith was seeing if he could, and he did a very nice job. He also said that if he was ever commissioned for one, the price would be triple.
I have one like #2 hanging on my wall it keeps a fairly good edge to it and has served me well over the years, quality isn't cheep but it is worth everything i paid for it it's not "just" a wall hanger. part of my axe and shield set from my reenacting days SCA was fun but they didn't play with live steel :P
ah those were the days.
--Rick
ah those were the days.
--Rick
I thing you are seeing an artifact of the layout line I used to keep the blade straight on the first two swords. It was picked by the scanner and missed when I doing clean in photoshop. Also I the shading/ edge line was done more to denote the object as having three dimension and where the edge is. It may not be 100% accurate but it is habit I picked from too many art directors nagging about not where the edge was. Especially on the seax/sax which is located on the opposite side of where many folk often expect.
If these were more finished drawings I'd made the shading more subtle. As it was these cranked out in about a hour one evening as reference. I might tidy them up if I use them for final illustrations though.
If these were more finished drawings I'd made the shading more subtle. As it was these cranked out in about a hour one evening as reference. I might tidy them up if I use them for final illustrations though.
Hm.. In that case, the shading is a little too precise, in that to me it indicates a hard bevel line.
Seaxes often have a fuller running near the back edge of the blade partway, but are almost always flat ground, without an actual bevel line.
Sorry, but I'm used to being a craftsman dealing with working sketches; where every single detail denotes a specific feature that is to be replicated on the finished item being made.
Its a pet peeve- I had to deal with a LOT of sketches covered in artsy shading or fancy texturing that was not an actual detail of what I was expected to make....
I'm making knives and armor again on a limited basis, so I am dealing with these issues all over again.
Makes me a little grumbly over sketches of weapons, which is not your fault.
Something over 30 years of intense research into the construction of every form of weapon humans have ever made and used also means I sometimes get a bad case of "researcher's disease"-
A tendency to pick at details or argue them when its not always appropriate.
Sorry about that.
-Badger-
Seaxes often have a fuller running near the back edge of the blade partway, but are almost always flat ground, without an actual bevel line.
Sorry, but I'm used to being a craftsman dealing with working sketches; where every single detail denotes a specific feature that is to be replicated on the finished item being made.
Its a pet peeve- I had to deal with a LOT of sketches covered in artsy shading or fancy texturing that was not an actual detail of what I was expected to make....
I'm making knives and armor again on a limited basis, so I am dealing with these issues all over again.
Makes me a little grumbly over sketches of weapons, which is not your fault.
Something over 30 years of intense research into the construction of every form of weapon humans have ever made and used also means I sometimes get a bad case of "researcher's disease"-
A tendency to pick at details or argue them when its not always appropriate.
Sorry about that.
-Badger-
Actually, the lugged spear is frequently called a boar spear, and it was designed for dangerous game. The lugs are intended to keep the critter from running up the spear and gutting you. A wild boar is quite capable of that. So is an opponent on the battlefield or in the gladiatorial arena, but lugged spears are much less common there. They are both much more expensive and heavier than a spear without them.
The javelin heads are intended to seat in a socket on the lance, which frequently includes a tether, so you can yank it back and re-use it with another head, especially when used for hunting. The different heads would be used for hunting different game. A fishing head would also have a tether on the head. The atlatl was frequently used in conjunction with the javelin, it gave more range and power. btw, the 'spike' on the back end of the head was usually wood. It made it much easier to match the 'spike' to the socket on the lance, as it was held in place strictly by friction. Massed produced uniformity like we're used to does not come from a smith's forge.
The Vikings of our world had a special spear type, called a flight spear, that was longer and lighter than a battle spear. It was designed, obviously, to be thrown, as a weapon to be used before closing. A spear can be a fearsome melee weapon in the right hands, but the Vikings preferred swords and axes. Being part Norse myself, I can understand why, even if I can't really verbalize that explanation.
A very nice sketch of a seax, as well. They were also made with an angular shape rather than the curve you've shown, rather resembling an oversized bowie knife without the fancy guard and quillions. They were always single-edged, but either edge could be sharpened, it depended on the smith. Also, both of the old examples I have are slightly different from what you've sketched. The hilt is centered on the width of the blade, and is at a slight angle, so that the centerline of the hilt is aligned with the point, ensuring that the full force of a thrust would be properly transferred. It is primarily a slashing weapon, but the thrust was also used.
The javelin heads are intended to seat in a socket on the lance, which frequently includes a tether, so you can yank it back and re-use it with another head, especially when used for hunting. The different heads would be used for hunting different game. A fishing head would also have a tether on the head. The atlatl was frequently used in conjunction with the javelin, it gave more range and power. btw, the 'spike' on the back end of the head was usually wood. It made it much easier to match the 'spike' to the socket on the lance, as it was held in place strictly by friction. Massed produced uniformity like we're used to does not come from a smith's forge.
The Vikings of our world had a special spear type, called a flight spear, that was longer and lighter than a battle spear. It was designed, obviously, to be thrown, as a weapon to be used before closing. A spear can be a fearsome melee weapon in the right hands, but the Vikings preferred swords and axes. Being part Norse myself, I can understand why, even if I can't really verbalize that explanation.
A very nice sketch of a seax, as well. They were also made with an angular shape rather than the curve you've shown, rather resembling an oversized bowie knife without the fancy guard and quillions. They were always single-edged, but either edge could be sharpened, it depended on the smith. Also, both of the old examples I have are slightly different from what you've sketched. The hilt is centered on the width of the blade, and is at a slight angle, so that the centerline of the hilt is aligned with the point, ensuring that the full force of a thrust would be properly transferred. It is primarily a slashing weapon, but the thrust was also used.
Well the lugged/ winged spear does not have to be a boar spear. In fact many boar spears I have observed do not have the lugs on the head but attached to the shaft instead. In fact a couple of them that I have reference in archive show a boar's tusk attached to the shaft to act as the stop.
I am left with the impression that while the sword and axe were the preferred weapon of choice the spear was ubiquitous because of it was simple to make and cheap in comparison for materials needed.
Seax, or I've seen it as Sax in some books now, is flight fancy from my mind and does not have any real examples to my mind.
I am left with the impression that while the sword and axe were the preferred weapon of choice the spear was ubiquitous because of it was simple to make and cheap in comparison for materials needed.
Seax, or I've seen it as Sax in some books now, is flight fancy from my mind and does not have any real examples to my mind.
Actually, in this style the lugs are used in war.
The type is often called a winged spear, Frankish spear, etc.
The design originated with the Franks and became popular among the Norse.
The lugs are handy for hooking the edge of a shield and pulling it down.
A sufficiently skilled spearman can hook a shield, drag it down, and stab a now exposed face in one quick movement...A maneuver I experienced firsthand in SCA fighting 20 years ago.
Even if the spearman does not follow it up, a fellow warrior on the line can get in a quick strike at the enemy with the fouled shield.
-Badger-
The type is often called a winged spear, Frankish spear, etc.
The design originated with the Franks and became popular among the Norse.
The lugs are handy for hooking the edge of a shield and pulling it down.
A sufficiently skilled spearman can hook a shield, drag it down, and stab a now exposed face in one quick movement...A maneuver I experienced firsthand in SCA fighting 20 years ago.
Even if the spearman does not follow it up, a fellow warrior on the line can get in a quick strike at the enemy with the fouled shield.
-Badger-
Baroncoon
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