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Tserisa
As many people don’t' know, part of the North West Pacific tradition of art, is asking permission. A lot of non community members think it's ok to randomly throw together something that looks "in the style" simply because they can, and the style is "cool".
This is NOT the case. Aboriginal art is very deep rooted in the cultural traditions, and many of them have specific rules as to how one draws something, portrays something, or if they even have the right to.
This is VERY hard for non-community members to understand because they live a life of self indulgence and entitlement.
I lived and worked within the community for 10+ years now, and if there is one thing I am STILL doing is asking permission. This NEVER stops.
When I opened my 10 slots, I was in Vancouver, visiting some friends in the local Community. I had the pleasure of going down to one of my friend’s houses and attending a family gathering, that included a lot of members from their community.
During my attendance, I had figured that I would try and “obtain” some permission to do some artwork that breached out of the “norm”. After all, this would be a perfect time, as when the Elders and family gets-together, and they ask if anyone has something to get out in the open... now’s my chance.
Push comes to shove, I asked, discussed, reasoned, and gifted [paid the price] to get the rights to do some stuff. But there were 2 instances I REALLY had to discuss my POV and this picture is a result of one of them.
Most of the Elders were not pleased with the idea that European folklore would be depicted in this style. When I asked about some of the supernatural beings, they plainly refused. It was only after I brought up the fact that another NWP artist- who is half Irish in decent- already broke that barrier to design a “Dragon”, did some of the Elders shift their consideration. Turns out, it wasn’t that they were against me doing it; simply, they wanted me to fight for it.
That too, is a cultural mentality.
So because I earned that right, I could post this with a quiet conscious, and silent heart.
The same will go for the next 2 images.
As far as the image execution is concerned- I deliberately wanted the wings to be offset in color so help with the silhouetting of the main body, as well as help with the directional flow of he image. I think it reads very well on both those areas.
TserisaAs many people don’t' know, part of the North West Pacific tradition of art, is asking permission. A lot of non community members think it's ok to randomly throw together something that looks "in the style" simply because they can, and the style is "cool".
This is NOT the case. Aboriginal art is very deep rooted in the cultural traditions, and many of them have specific rules as to how one draws something, portrays something, or if they even have the right to.
This is VERY hard for non-community members to understand because they live a life of self indulgence and entitlement.
I lived and worked within the community for 10+ years now, and if there is one thing I am STILL doing is asking permission. This NEVER stops.
When I opened my 10 slots, I was in Vancouver, visiting some friends in the local Community. I had the pleasure of going down to one of my friend’s houses and attending a family gathering, that included a lot of members from their community.
During my attendance, I had figured that I would try and “obtain” some permission to do some artwork that breached out of the “norm”. After all, this would be a perfect time, as when the Elders and family gets-together, and they ask if anyone has something to get out in the open... now’s my chance.
Push comes to shove, I asked, discussed, reasoned, and gifted [paid the price] to get the rights to do some stuff. But there were 2 instances I REALLY had to discuss my POV and this picture is a result of one of them.
Most of the Elders were not pleased with the idea that European folklore would be depicted in this style. When I asked about some of the supernatural beings, they plainly refused. It was only after I brought up the fact that another NWP artist- who is half Irish in decent- already broke that barrier to design a “Dragon”, did some of the Elders shift their consideration. Turns out, it wasn’t that they were against me doing it; simply, they wanted me to fight for it.
That too, is a cultural mentality.
So because I earned that right, I could post this with a quiet conscious, and silent heart.
The same will go for the next 2 images.
As far as the image execution is concerned- I deliberately wanted the wings to be offset in color so help with the silhouetting of the main body, as well as help with the directional flow of he image. I think it reads very well on both those areas.
Category All / Fantasy
Species Dragon (Other)
Size 337 x 441px
File Size 95.1 kB
Thank YOU for taking the time to read!
Because I live and work in Aboriginal communities, I get the authentic "fact" about their culture, and not the New Age stereotypes. I capitalize in teaching about the culture when I do the art. So I am glad that people take the time to read.
Because I live and work in Aboriginal communities, I get the authentic "fact" about their culture, and not the New Age stereotypes. I capitalize in teaching about the culture when I do the art. So I am glad that people take the time to read.
I would love to spend a month with you and shadow what you do and how you are with the community people. I've lived in Washington basically all my life and this style of art has always held a special love to me (one of the reasons why I watched you, because you don't see people working in this style that often). I'm really interested in the culture and traditions, but never really got -into- it all because of not having a connection and not knowing how abouts to.. get into it. I would also love to learn how to art in this style.
Aahh. Long story too long, this picture and your description for it is.. "inspirational" and very interesting to learn that you needed permission to draw the art. Looking forward to your next images.
Aahh. Long story too long, this picture and your description for it is.. "inspirational" and very interesting to learn that you needed permission to draw the art. Looking forward to your next images.
I admit, I am by far not qualified to have a "shadow"! 10 years, and only now I get to be "cultural rep". Let alone a teacher of sorts. I'll wait until I have 30+ years for that! XD
Connections are fairly simple to find- at least here in Canada- becuase of the Friendship centers and the affiliated organizations that are set up to bring people into the community, and raise the awareness. However, that is only the first step, becuase the rest comes with a lot of hard work. Usually, people start by volunteering in the communities, before they can even try and find some sort of employment or at least some regular contact with someone for the teaching and the training. I ALWAYS encourage people to try... since that is the only way to do it. It's definitely worth the reward at the end of it!
I also thank you for reading the statement. Very few people care to know what's beyond the image they see, let alone any cultural significance.
Connections are fairly simple to find- at least here in Canada- becuase of the Friendship centers and the affiliated organizations that are set up to bring people into the community, and raise the awareness. However, that is only the first step, becuase the rest comes with a lot of hard work. Usually, people start by volunteering in the communities, before they can even try and find some sort of employment or at least some regular contact with someone for the teaching and the training. I ALWAYS encourage people to try... since that is the only way to do it. It's definitely worth the reward at the end of it!
I also thank you for reading the statement. Very few people care to know what's beyond the image they see, let alone any cultural significance.
I also thank you for telling what you went through to get permission to do the style!
One thing I've always wondered is if there is a story / reason/ purpose for each of the designs placed about the body or if its solely up to the artist on the design layout (like faces on the flanks of an animal or wings of a bird.)
One thing I've always wondered is if there is a story / reason/ purpose for each of the designs placed about the body or if its solely up to the artist on the design layout (like faces on the flanks of an animal or wings of a bird.)
Yes, there are specific reasons for each- however unique respectively. It can either be a social status, familial heritage, family crest, relations, other participants in a story, related characteristics which are symbolize by appropriate other caricatures, etc. MANY reasons. They have to make sense culturally, and also be appropriate culturally, as there are instances when certain symbols cannot be used with others. :)
The read was a good one! I had an idea that you would ask for permission, but I always figured it was a casual formality. It's interesting that they might say no to things, and that makes what is done all the more special! :3 I love your work and glad they allowed the dragon! I like his head quite a bit. :3
Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it is HARD. "Casual formality" is a UNDERSTATEMENT as there is a time, place, and specific way you go about it. "Casual" is the LAST thing it is. XD
I will be posting 2 images that will illustrate one of those times where the permission granted had to be done with a heavy cost. Sometimes, you never get that permission, but someone else does. That's the way of life. :)
I will be posting 2 images that will illustrate one of those times where the permission granted had to be done with a heavy cost. Sometimes, you never get that permission, but someone else does. That's the way of life. :)
I wouldn't say frustrating. since I am well more interested in actually staying within the cultural boundaries. I'm also the type that likes to have "earned" rights to do thing... it's like achievements in the eyes of the Elders. It can be concerning and a little disappointing when it doesn't work out... but all in all, it's just a signal to me to try harder!
It's already been said but it is very interesting that not only did you have to get permission to do this dragon but to do all the aboriginal work you do. Generally when something like this is already mentioned I don't bother to repeat it because I feel it's a waste of time for both the poster and readers, but to have you explain the process you had to go through is very admirable, it makes your work and aboriginal art as a whole very special and so ... I guess I'm just saying Thank you for the time you spend.
Thank YOU for posting your comment! Even when something is "repeated" it's not actually being parroted or mirrored. Everyone can say the same thing in their unique little way, and every subtle difference actually does tip me off to certain aspects and qualities people like or dislike. So I encourage you to say whatever it is you need to say, irregardless if others said it already!
I am very appreciative that many people take the time to read my comments when it comes to my pictures. i strive to teach and bring to the forefront some context when I illustrate or animate- never the less when ti's culturally based! Far too often, I find those who would just look, take, and do something that would be considered offensive, without giving muhc thought to what they are doing. Knowing people are reading just tells me that there ARE folks who care. And that in itself is touching!
I am very appreciative that many people take the time to read my comments when it comes to my pictures. i strive to teach and bring to the forefront some context when I illustrate or animate- never the less when ti's culturally based! Far too often, I find those who would just look, take, and do something that would be considered offensive, without giving muhc thought to what they are doing. Knowing people are reading just tells me that there ARE folks who care. And that in itself is touching!
Wow! Learn something new everyday! I knew that there were specific rules regarding the shapes and manner for drawing this sort of work, but I didn't realize you had to ask for permission. I live in BC, and we're surrounded by this beautiful style everywhere, but the culture of the First Nations' people here seem so...broken. :( Despite the fact how everyone (mostly the white community here) still celebrates it. I didn't realize that some of the rules still existed for them. I am indeed ignorant.
Also, I just think it's awesome that you know this stuff and got their permission and everything to do this! It's very cool to see two very different cultural signatures come together and you've executed it very well.
Also, I just think it's awesome that you know this stuff and got their permission and everything to do this! It's very cool to see two very different cultural signatures come together and you've executed it very well.
And by "white community" here, it's just that it seems whenever they have an aboriginal sort of thing in town, it always seems to be put on by white people and the First Nations just attend it. >.> I realize that there are still communities here that still follow the customs and traditions of their culture, but so many more seem so lost. :( And I'm afraid of my comments sounding so very ignorant so I'm sorry if I end up saying something stupid. >.<
I actually found quit the opposite. When I lived in Vancouver the Aboriginal communities were very lively and doing well- simply that the non-community members never venture into their “neck of the woods” and only “see” them from afar... so it almost seems as if they are well ways away, while “white folk” are doing everything. It’s actually the opposite; as when a function goes on, held by non-aboriginals, it’s usually at the request to invite the Natives to practice on their home territory: At my sister’s convocation, it was mentioned several; times by the organizing university that they are on Coast Salish Territory, to acknowledge who the territory belongs to.
I tend to blame more the fact that the non Native communities don’t even put the effort into seeking out all the Friendship center, and organizations that actually exist to breach the cultural boundaries. There is a Friendship center on East Hastings that I was working at, and my friend who recently moved out form Toronto immediately went and began to volunteer there... yet somehow, anyone living in Vancouver doesn’t seem to care to Google or ask around if something like that exists.
In regards to the art, there is a WHOLE long line and list of cultural taboos that many non-cultural members keep breaking by drawing up silly things reminiscent of the style. There is so much cultural context, over 80 taboos/rules not to break, and required permission and cultural appropriation involved; but once again, the non-community members don’t care or think they should be seeking out any kind of guidance or relevant information. Simply they do as they please, and it’s that kind of attitude that helps breach the cultures, rather then bring them together. What I am hoping is that people learn from the stories I post, and see exactly how involved and disciplined something like this is; it’s about taking something from a culture that isn’t theirs to begin with, and know very little about.
Do not apologise, for in that fact that you admit you have no concept of what’s going on, there shouldn’t be any blame put on you. In fact, at least you inquire and try to learn... the worst are those who DO know, but carry on in an offensive manner ANWAYS under some lame excuse of “being a shaman” or “having rights like any other”. You have nothing to apologise for!
I tend to blame more the fact that the non Native communities don’t even put the effort into seeking out all the Friendship center, and organizations that actually exist to breach the cultural boundaries. There is a Friendship center on East Hastings that I was working at, and my friend who recently moved out form Toronto immediately went and began to volunteer there... yet somehow, anyone living in Vancouver doesn’t seem to care to Google or ask around if something like that exists.
In regards to the art, there is a WHOLE long line and list of cultural taboos that many non-cultural members keep breaking by drawing up silly things reminiscent of the style. There is so much cultural context, over 80 taboos/rules not to break, and required permission and cultural appropriation involved; but once again, the non-community members don’t care or think they should be seeking out any kind of guidance or relevant information. Simply they do as they please, and it’s that kind of attitude that helps breach the cultures, rather then bring them together. What I am hoping is that people learn from the stories I post, and see exactly how involved and disciplined something like this is; it’s about taking something from a culture that isn’t theirs to begin with, and know very little about.
Do not apologise, for in that fact that you admit you have no concept of what’s going on, there shouldn’t be any blame put on you. In fact, at least you inquire and try to learn... the worst are those who DO know, but carry on in an offensive manner ANWAYS under some lame excuse of “being a shaman” or “having rights like any other”. You have nothing to apologise for!
I see now. The more I learn about aboriginal culture the more fascinating it becomes. As part of my university degree I have to take an aboriginal art course (which they haven't made available yet, lousy UNBC/Emily Carr joint program. >:( I was supposed to have graduated this year but they keep screwing up the requirements for the degree). Knowing that there's a whole system behind aboriginal artwork makes it more fascinating.
Funny story; a while back on DeviantArt, an artist I watch made a Haida-style image of one of her fantasy dragon-type characters. A very upset First Nations' artist began flaming her and anyone who commented on the picture. At the time, I didn't take him seriously, and thought he was just being a troll. I didn't understand where he was coming from. He wasn't a very good artist, in my opinion, and didn't draw aboriginal art, but I didn't understand that you had to ask permission first. I'm glad I didn't say anything to him. I had a feeling that perhaps I was missing something, even though I still think he was going about it the wrong way.
But just a question: why do you have to ask permission to draw something in this style? Do they consider their style as sacred or something? I'm just curious as while I respect cultures and their ways, it's kind of a strange concept to me. And it also kinda solves the mystery as to why the aboriginal murals and other pieces of First Nations' artwork around town are never vandalized.
Also, thank you for your understanding. I was afraid of being offensive in some way due to my lack of knowledge. I feel badly that I live in this part of the country and know very little about the cultures that originated here. (Granted I just moved here from the States about 6 years ago. >.>)
Funny story; a while back on DeviantArt, an artist I watch made a Haida-style image of one of her fantasy dragon-type characters. A very upset First Nations' artist began flaming her and anyone who commented on the picture. At the time, I didn't take him seriously, and thought he was just being a troll. I didn't understand where he was coming from. He wasn't a very good artist, in my opinion, and didn't draw aboriginal art, but I didn't understand that you had to ask permission first. I'm glad I didn't say anything to him. I had a feeling that perhaps I was missing something, even though I still think he was going about it the wrong way.
But just a question: why do you have to ask permission to draw something in this style? Do they consider their style as sacred or something? I'm just curious as while I respect cultures and their ways, it's kind of a strange concept to me. And it also kinda solves the mystery as to why the aboriginal murals and other pieces of First Nations' artwork around town are never vandalized.
Also, thank you for your understanding. I was afraid of being offensive in some way due to my lack of knowledge. I feel badly that I live in this part of the country and know very little about the cultures that originated here. (Granted I just moved here from the States about 6 years ago. >.>)
Taking an aboriginal art course would be interesting,- but I doubt they capitalize on the cultural aspect of it. Sadly, things that are proceduralized in schools- and this I see as well with University courses that deal with aboriginal history and culture. They still run around and use terms like “Totem” and “Indian”.
The biggest issue between cultures is that the non aboriginal have no concept of aboriginal culture, and just assume that the anger or disrespect is merely someone “trolling” or “mouthing off” because the non-aboriginals are still trying to measure the aboriginal culture’s actions by their own. There is also an additional disrespect on the side of the non-aboriginal cultures as to assume and entitle themselves to do whatever they want simply because this is what they have gotten used to doing. Because the Western/European cultures demoralize and simply devaluate a lot of their own art and culture, they assume it’s ok to do so with everyone else’s. In a sense “it’s not sacred to us, so it shouldn’t be to you too”.
And with this, it brings us to the answer of your next question: yes, you need to obtain permission to do this art. Culturally, the NWP aboriginals see the Artisans at the culture-bearers of their Nations. They carry the stories and the crafts in their art, song, and dance, and therefore have traditionally given a prominent status in the Band. In order to become one of these kinds of artisans, you have to apprentice to an older, knowledgeable teacher so that you may learn not only the technical aspects of the art- but more importantly, the cultural and moral aspects of it as well. You learn about the taboos, the cultural appropriations, the procedure to earn rights to art, or how to be given the right to depict something that isn’t yours.
Because the Culture Bearer is in such high reverence (because they perpetuate the culture and keep it alive), they are expected to be kept to a certain standard of ethics in their community. These ethics will vary between Nation and Nation, and so it becomes not only an “art form” but an integrated aspect of “Cultural Reflection”... and since you only want to put your best out there, having a non-member, or someone with no knowledgeable background, it becomes an issue of identity theft, misrepresentation, and obviously, cultural infringement.
It is a wonder to me how so many people can live on this continent, and just not care or know about the locals whom this IS their country... but then again, I also realize that it’s an issue of a long standing cultural mentality that people tend to think that their personal culture is all that there is, and it’s the best- and ignore the others. It’s a pity, because that’s how hate begins. And that is also the reason I try to help bridge those gaps between cultures- and always care to teach those who are interested in learning.
The biggest issue between cultures is that the non aboriginal have no concept of aboriginal culture, and just assume that the anger or disrespect is merely someone “trolling” or “mouthing off” because the non-aboriginals are still trying to measure the aboriginal culture’s actions by their own. There is also an additional disrespect on the side of the non-aboriginal cultures as to assume and entitle themselves to do whatever they want simply because this is what they have gotten used to doing. Because the Western/European cultures demoralize and simply devaluate a lot of their own art and culture, they assume it’s ok to do so with everyone else’s. In a sense “it’s not sacred to us, so it shouldn’t be to you too”.
And with this, it brings us to the answer of your next question: yes, you need to obtain permission to do this art. Culturally, the NWP aboriginals see the Artisans at the culture-bearers of their Nations. They carry the stories and the crafts in their art, song, and dance, and therefore have traditionally given a prominent status in the Band. In order to become one of these kinds of artisans, you have to apprentice to an older, knowledgeable teacher so that you may learn not only the technical aspects of the art- but more importantly, the cultural and moral aspects of it as well. You learn about the taboos, the cultural appropriations, the procedure to earn rights to art, or how to be given the right to depict something that isn’t yours.
Because the Culture Bearer is in such high reverence (because they perpetuate the culture and keep it alive), they are expected to be kept to a certain standard of ethics in their community. These ethics will vary between Nation and Nation, and so it becomes not only an “art form” but an integrated aspect of “Cultural Reflection”... and since you only want to put your best out there, having a non-member, or someone with no knowledgeable background, it becomes an issue of identity theft, misrepresentation, and obviously, cultural infringement.
It is a wonder to me how so many people can live on this continent, and just not care or know about the locals whom this IS their country... but then again, I also realize that it’s an issue of a long standing cultural mentality that people tend to think that their personal culture is all that there is, and it’s the best- and ignore the others. It’s a pity, because that’s how hate begins. And that is also the reason I try to help bridge those gaps between cultures- and always care to teach those who are interested in learning.
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