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Hey folks! So I've been working with a forge and crucible for smelting metals and so, about a week ago I did this doodle as a different way of melting metals in the dragonscape.
Metal Smelting technology is something that drekir didn't start off with and, in many regions, is slow to pick up. But the general spread of metal smelting and casting really begins to spread through the 30s PA from regions that had discovered earlier reaching out to other regions vai growing trade networks, or other regions independently discovering metal smelting.
Metal smelting does allow drekir to melt down the metal scraps that they couldn't otherwise use, those too big, small, or too inconvenient of a shape, into forms that are more practically workable into useful tools, jewelry, etc. Most molds and casted shapes are very simple flat shapes.
Often drekir going into the 40s-100sPA use both cold forming techniques and smelting in tandem. If something can be quickly hammered into a desired shape.
There are a few ways that drekir construct furnaces and foundries for melting metal, but all you need is something that burns at 1100 degrees celsius, there is the classic method of charcoal and bellows and you can do a similar thing with low quality fire mana. Though efficiently elementized fire mana can burn at around 1150 degrees celsius. So expertly elementized fire mana can make smelting as simple as leaving a crucible partially submerged in fire mana. Though more often elementization is not perfect and the use of bellows can also increase the temperature conventionally.
Firemana forges/furnaces also as a downside require a lot of mana. Elementized mana, especially fire mana, sublimates quickly and gallons can be lost within an hour. So often to keep a manaforge running you need to constantly feed mana into it to keep it burning. It takes a lot less charcoal for a charcoal forge than mana for a mana forge in terms of mass.
But they work! Of course as melt smelting is invented in different contexts and areas and there isn't really a central spread point in the broad scheme of things, different methods of smelting are done in different locations in different ways. So you may find manaforges dominating in some regions and more familiar charcoal furnaces in other regions.
In the 110sPA as prepulse human ruins really start to run dry of resources to scavenge there is a step away from scavenged metals and more towards local natural resources and magical resources. Therefore you start to also see a transition from normal metallurgy into smelted mana based metals using native metals such as copper and aluminum as a base to stabilize it, so this early spread of melt smelting is crucial for later shifts in the technological landscape of the drekir societies in the DragonScape.
Metal Smelting technology is something that drekir didn't start off with and, in many regions, is slow to pick up. But the general spread of metal smelting and casting really begins to spread through the 30s PA from regions that had discovered earlier reaching out to other regions vai growing trade networks, or other regions independently discovering metal smelting.
Metal smelting does allow drekir to melt down the metal scraps that they couldn't otherwise use, those too big, small, or too inconvenient of a shape, into forms that are more practically workable into useful tools, jewelry, etc. Most molds and casted shapes are very simple flat shapes.
Often drekir going into the 40s-100sPA use both cold forming techniques and smelting in tandem. If something can be quickly hammered into a desired shape.
There are a few ways that drekir construct furnaces and foundries for melting metal, but all you need is something that burns at 1100 degrees celsius, there is the classic method of charcoal and bellows and you can do a similar thing with low quality fire mana. Though efficiently elementized fire mana can burn at around 1150 degrees celsius. So expertly elementized fire mana can make smelting as simple as leaving a crucible partially submerged in fire mana. Though more often elementization is not perfect and the use of bellows can also increase the temperature conventionally.
Firemana forges/furnaces also as a downside require a lot of mana. Elementized mana, especially fire mana, sublimates quickly and gallons can be lost within an hour. So often to keep a manaforge running you need to constantly feed mana into it to keep it burning. It takes a lot less charcoal for a charcoal forge than mana for a mana forge in terms of mass.
But they work! Of course as melt smelting is invented in different contexts and areas and there isn't really a central spread point in the broad scheme of things, different methods of smelting are done in different locations in different ways. So you may find manaforges dominating in some regions and more familiar charcoal furnaces in other regions.
In the 110sPA as prepulse human ruins really start to run dry of resources to scavenge there is a step away from scavenged metals and more towards local natural resources and magical resources. Therefore you start to also see a transition from normal metallurgy into smelted mana based metals using native metals such as copper and aluminum as a base to stabilize it, so this early spread of melt smelting is crucial for later shifts in the technological landscape of the drekir societies in the DragonScape.
Category Artwork (Digital) / Doodle
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 1280 x 676px
File Size 113.8 kB
Mana goes through cycles of drifting in and out of reality so stockpiling relies on preventing it from sublimating. So closed plastic or glass bottles and buckets can keep it in reality for a longer period of time. But it will have a shelf life and disappear. So mana is often sourced for short term Applications.
Mana is elementized through energy or it’s lacking .
Thermal energy makes fire mana
A lack of thermal energy makes ice mana
Mechanical energy makes wind mana
Electrical energy makes lightning mana
And chemical energy makes acidic.
Mages can also train their spirit to trigger elementization internally
Mana is elementized through energy or it’s lacking .
Thermal energy makes fire mana
A lack of thermal energy makes ice mana
Mechanical energy makes wind mana
Electrical energy makes lightning mana
And chemical energy makes acidic.
Mages can also train their spirit to trigger elementization internally
Something else to consider? Since you're following a current timeline, in 2021, there are a *lot* of people with knowledge of smelting.
BigStackD on YouTube has 1.7 million subscribers, and he's just one. There are literally hundreds of YouTubers who are doing metalwork, from smelting, casting, forging and blacksmithing? There are now tens of millions of people who have at least a rudimentary knowledge of how to melt metal.
Throw in people like Nile Red and Cody's Lab, and now you have close to 20 million viewers who know at least the very basics of chemistry, metallurgy and mining, as well as a host of other skills.
That brings me to another point? Sites like YouTube and others have unleashed a cascade of knowledge on the modern world. Granted, not everyone who watches a YT video is going to be able to do what they saw, but I think those that survive the great dying, will be those who used to watch a lot of those videos, and actually followed through with trying it for themselves.
Kinda like you're doing. :)
BigStackD on YouTube has 1.7 million subscribers, and he's just one. There are literally hundreds of YouTubers who are doing metalwork, from smelting, casting, forging and blacksmithing? There are now tens of millions of people who have at least a rudimentary knowledge of how to melt metal.
Throw in people like Nile Red and Cody's Lab, and now you have close to 20 million viewers who know at least the very basics of chemistry, metallurgy and mining, as well as a host of other skills.
That brings me to another point? Sites like YouTube and others have unleashed a cascade of knowledge on the modern world. Granted, not everyone who watches a YT video is going to be able to do what they saw, but I think those that survive the great dying, will be those who used to watch a lot of those videos, and actually followed through with trying it for themselves.
Kinda like you're doing. :)
Yeah ok so let’s see, no disrespect however
I think you’re missing the sheer scale here so let’s make generous assumptions:
1) let’s assume all of these viewers live in the americas (they probably don’t)
2) let’s assume that by watching these channels they have developed a mystical perfect and comprehensive knowledge of how to make the furnace, crucible, molds and other equipment from mostly scratch just from diligently watching these videos (a lot probably didn’t and watch casually)
3) let’s be extra generous and increase the numbers up to 75 million individuals here, for all the other knowledgeable foundry hobbyists and pros
Now. There are 1.2 billion people in the americas. So 75 million people who know enough to make a foundry from scratch is around 6% of the total population, not bad.
But only 5% of the total population wakes up in the first place, and 2/3rds of that group dies out. By the time the average drek group has stabilized you only have 2% of the original prepulse population. At best and unrealistically hopeful that leaves 120,000 assuming that 6% demographic maintains in the awakening (which is unlikely).
So even in a magically optimistic scenario with a higher than normal demographic of people who all understood the process and know how to self fabricate all the equipment to do the process… not a lot.
And as who wakes up and who doesn’t is random, it could be the case to where that number is less than 20,000 or lower.
In reality knowing how to make a furnace is 1/3rd if the battle, you need the other tools, other helpers, and the resources to accommodate the effort and time to make and use a foundry.
And there is a practical difference between watching someone do and explain something, and trying to do it yourself. Watching someone fish can help and it’s also not sufficient to do it yourself without tools or experience.
And lastly is in a lot of regions that chain of knowledge isn’t intact. It doesn’t matter if you know how to forge if you only have used propane forges without a familiarity of charcoal manufacture for example.
I think you are being too generous in your assumptions and even with those generous assumptions I still would argue metal smelting would be a lost tech. It’s not lost everywhere (it is used and spreads from some regions after all) but for the average drek it’s something that would be lost in their community.
I think you’re missing the sheer scale here so let’s make generous assumptions:
1) let’s assume all of these viewers live in the americas (they probably don’t)
2) let’s assume that by watching these channels they have developed a mystical perfect and comprehensive knowledge of how to make the furnace, crucible, molds and other equipment from mostly scratch just from diligently watching these videos (a lot probably didn’t and watch casually)
3) let’s be extra generous and increase the numbers up to 75 million individuals here, for all the other knowledgeable foundry hobbyists and pros
Now. There are 1.2 billion people in the americas. So 75 million people who know enough to make a foundry from scratch is around 6% of the total population, not bad.
But only 5% of the total population wakes up in the first place, and 2/3rds of that group dies out. By the time the average drek group has stabilized you only have 2% of the original prepulse population. At best and unrealistically hopeful that leaves 120,000 assuming that 6% demographic maintains in the awakening (which is unlikely).
So even in a magically optimistic scenario with a higher than normal demographic of people who all understood the process and know how to self fabricate all the equipment to do the process… not a lot.
And as who wakes up and who doesn’t is random, it could be the case to where that number is less than 20,000 or lower.
In reality knowing how to make a furnace is 1/3rd if the battle, you need the other tools, other helpers, and the resources to accommodate the effort and time to make and use a foundry.
And there is a practical difference between watching someone do and explain something, and trying to do it yourself. Watching someone fish can help and it’s also not sufficient to do it yourself without tools or experience.
And lastly is in a lot of regions that chain of knowledge isn’t intact. It doesn’t matter if you know how to forge if you only have used propane forges without a familiarity of charcoal manufacture for example.
I think you are being too generous in your assumptions and even with those generous assumptions I still would argue metal smelting would be a lost tech. It’s not lost everywhere (it is used and spreads from some regions after all) but for the average drek it’s something that would be lost in their community.
See, that's the part I was missing in my thinking? 6% of 1.2 billion is great? 6% of 20 million isn't so hot. Oof, no pun intended...
I agree that the fine details are well and gone, but those will be recovered in time. My reasoning is that the Drekir still have their full human intelligence, and human intelligence is a very powerful factor. Even your dumbest backcountry redneck knows that if you toss an aluminum can in the fire, it's going to melt. That means people will try to figure it out. And the figuring it out part will come with an entire host of hazards on it's own, which will undoubtedly result in injuries, that result in fatalities, whether immediate or eventual.
That said...
Those are going to be people who have food, shelter, defense and companionship already taken care of, and actually have the time and resources to dedicate to experimentation.
Or, alternatively, it might be people who are tired of their wooden spears not performing well, and are willing to invest a little time in some metalworking. If it doesn't work out, they risk dying, because they allocated resources poorly. But if it succeeds, the rewards have the potential to greatly exceed the risk.
I think that metric will have a greater effect on the spread of knowledge? The proper allocation of time and resources? Those that have the time and resources to support research will have a better chance of success. And with human-level intelligence and reasoning capacity, I think the gaps will be filled in very quickly.
I agree that the fine details are well and gone, but those will be recovered in time. My reasoning is that the Drekir still have their full human intelligence, and human intelligence is a very powerful factor. Even your dumbest backcountry redneck knows that if you toss an aluminum can in the fire, it's going to melt. That means people will try to figure it out. And the figuring it out part will come with an entire host of hazards on it's own, which will undoubtedly result in injuries, that result in fatalities, whether immediate or eventual.
That said...
Those are going to be people who have food, shelter, defense and companionship already taken care of, and actually have the time and resources to dedicate to experimentation.
Or, alternatively, it might be people who are tired of their wooden spears not performing well, and are willing to invest a little time in some metalworking. If it doesn't work out, they risk dying, because they allocated resources poorly. But if it succeeds, the rewards have the potential to greatly exceed the risk.
I think that metric will have a greater effect on the spread of knowledge? The proper allocation of time and resources? Those that have the time and resources to support research will have a better chance of success. And with human-level intelligence and reasoning capacity, I think the gaps will be filled in very quickly.
Yeah sure I agree with most of this.
I would be more pessimistic, more likely under 2% than 6% of 20mil, my numbers were trying to be as optimistic as possible
And again I agree They are plenty smart and it’s something I’m sure someone who has heard that metals can be melted could figure out.
After things stabilize
Also are ways to quickly make copper tools and jewelry without smelting (cold working namely) that has limitations but is very easy to do in a very basic sense with little in the way of tools. Hence why for the first 30 years in most regions it dominates manufacturing processes.
And even after smelting knowledge starts spreading cold working might still be seen as preferable unless the metal in question is t practically workable.
And a lot of the time drekir are less making complex castings and more vague “blanks” that are well suited for versatile cold working
So there are many ways to make a blade for day to day life and that’s not talking about glass, slate, bone, etc.
I would be more pessimistic, more likely under 2% than 6% of 20mil, my numbers were trying to be as optimistic as possible
And again I agree They are plenty smart and it’s something I’m sure someone who has heard that metals can be melted could figure out.
After things stabilize
Also are ways to quickly make copper tools and jewelry without smelting (cold working namely) that has limitations but is very easy to do in a very basic sense with little in the way of tools. Hence why for the first 30 years in most regions it dominates manufacturing processes.
And even after smelting knowledge starts spreading cold working might still be seen as preferable unless the metal in question is t practically workable.
And a lot of the time drekir are less making complex castings and more vague “blanks” that are well suited for versatile cold working
So there are many ways to make a blade for day to day life and that’s not talking about glass, slate, bone, etc.
The one thing I'm curious about is what do mana infused metals look like or behave like? Do they actually retain any magical properties (something made with fire mana being constantly warm/hot or easy to ignite etc for branding/burning tools or for helping start fires for signals or camping/cooking as a example?)
As someone who's tried to forge their own sword without prior instruction, I can say that metal working is a very hard task and takes a lot of time and effort to get right. Making tools out of stone is also quite difficult but doable. For the Drekir, it probably would be even harder to do so I hope they manage to get it right!
As someone who's tried to forge their own sword without prior instruction, I can say that metal working is a very hard task and takes a lot of time and effort to get right. Making tools out of stone is also quite difficult but doable. For the Drekir, it probably would be even harder to do so I hope they manage to get it right!
The manametal that has appeared in the comic thus far would be Sivilão stal, which is a pure manametal which is known to be incredibly strong and hard to damage... but also sublimates and corrodes immensely quickly (4-6 months and its gone). Mana alloys that drekir make aren't as incredibly powerful, but the mana is stabilized making them last far longer. Mana metals can be elementized in various ways as you mentioned here, you're basically right on the money.
I mean drekir are mostly making copper tools, and cold working to make basic copper tools and weapons is pretty easy! You can see some of my own projects in the Scraps gallery on my page under the "Experimental Drekeology;'. So at least in cold working it is easy enough to make useful tools and/or weapons and/or decorative items.
Smelting is something i've been doing and it is I mean, notably more difficult but I am working on some projects to show that for the experimental drekeology.
I am sure if I can get it right, the drekir should be able to get it right within a reasonable amount of time!
I mean drekir are mostly making copper tools, and cold working to make basic copper tools and weapons is pretty easy! You can see some of my own projects in the Scraps gallery on my page under the "Experimental Drekeology;'. So at least in cold working it is easy enough to make useful tools and/or weapons and/or decorative items.
Smelting is something i've been doing and it is I mean, notably more difficult but I am working on some projects to show that for the experimental drekeology.
I am sure if I can get it right, the drekir should be able to get it right within a reasonable amount of time!
Wouldn't the Drakir be working at a modern level of technology, since they were all previously human? Or did whatever magical event happen melt everyone's brains, turning them into animals and making them start from nothing? Because even if they had no working modern infrastructure, the modern knowledge seems like it would put them ahead a ways.
Modern knowledge can only go so far, you can have all the knowledge and be unable to capitalize on it if the infrastructure, labor Pool, or resources aren’t available.
The magical event led in one way or another to 3 end results.
1) only 2% of the prepulse population, a part of the only 5% that woke up in the first place, actually survived the initial chaos of the awakening. It is unlikely that the majority of those people were skilled in all the aspects of resource gathering and refined manufacture to make modern technologies.
It’s one thing to say you know metal smelting, and another to source and build your own foundry and efficiently smelt and cast metal tools (trust me i am trying). And more realistically due to our high specialization you more often find people today who only know a single part of a long chain of specialists. If any link in that chain breaks that technology isn’t achievable.
It’s not just how to melt metal, it’s how to source charcoal or how to use fire mana, how to make heat resistant crucibles and how to make bellows. How to make a proper clay mixture for a mold and how to cast it, and how to properly remove material from the cast to make the final tool.
And casting is very simple. Extrapolate that to a power grid and the electronics to be run on the grid and it’s essentially impossible for a small community to accomplish on their own.
It’s easy to say “oh they have the knowledge they can revive modern tech”. And it’s another to actually do that, based on ethnographies of the real world and history on how technology changes tends to support the theory that even if knowledge is intact, that’s only a quarter of the equation of manufacturing modern technology.
2) most of the prepulse world is gone due to a lot of damaging factors that I’ll skim here. It isn’t like drekir are finding intact TVs or functional bits of steel, they are scraping through rubble that had been hit by cataclysm after disaster for small useful pieces of metal. More often than not these are pieces of copper or aluminum.
They don’t have anything to work with and literature on infrastructural collapse and technological transitions disagrees with your notion of people making modern technology from scratch.
3) there are priorities that go above making a car or a flashlight. When you have people to feed today chemistry for biofuel is useless. Mostly because you lack the equipment and more importantly because you need to eat now. A gun takes a lot more knowledge and resources than the average layman has, but a spear thrower is a lot easier to make and, with a few weeks or so of practice you can get some not insubstantial accuracy.
I think you vastly overestimate what post collapse communities can do, it’s not about being stupid it’s the economic, sociological and technological reality of the world we live in.
Modern tech exists solely thanks to the complex chains of infrastructure, highly specialized individuals, and supporting technologies from other chains that allow that tech to exist.
Isolated peoples with few resources can know how to build a car all they want. But without the modern tools, resources, organization and specialization it may as well be useless. You simply cannot go from nothing to modern technology, it’s now how history has worked every nor is it how the dragonscape would work,
If you want more on that i got some readings:
Collapse by Jared Diamond
1177BC: The day civilization collapsed
The collapse of complex societies by Joseph A Tainter
People’s of the tundra: a post communist transition by Ziker
And also as some cases of historical, Protohistorical, and contemporary collapses and their effects i would read about:
1) The Netufi climate change collapse of the little ice age.
2) The Bronze Age collapse and how the collapse of complex trade relations hindered or collapsed societies who couldn’t make their own metallurgy.
3) The Roman decline and how the breakdown of complex chains of manufacture resulted in simple, less sophisticated local industries to pop up.
4) The old copper culture shift in prehistoric North America and how or why cultures change to different states of technology.
5) The collapse of 19th century China and how it impacted technology and economies across China, often causing a return to less complex forms of technology.
The Argentine collapse and how folks were living prior to international aid
Or the Syrian collapse and how that has continued to impact technology in the region and how it has forced a heavy reliance on international import instead of local manufacture.
I think what I will end with is:
People transitioning to less sophisticated technology happens all the time and has less to do with an indivuals or groups knowledge and more to do with the environment they are living in.
Not everything’s a survival game where a small community goes from stone spears to machine guns.
The magical event led in one way or another to 3 end results.
1) only 2% of the prepulse population, a part of the only 5% that woke up in the first place, actually survived the initial chaos of the awakening. It is unlikely that the majority of those people were skilled in all the aspects of resource gathering and refined manufacture to make modern technologies.
It’s one thing to say you know metal smelting, and another to source and build your own foundry and efficiently smelt and cast metal tools (trust me i am trying). And more realistically due to our high specialization you more often find people today who only know a single part of a long chain of specialists. If any link in that chain breaks that technology isn’t achievable.
It’s not just how to melt metal, it’s how to source charcoal or how to use fire mana, how to make heat resistant crucibles and how to make bellows. How to make a proper clay mixture for a mold and how to cast it, and how to properly remove material from the cast to make the final tool.
And casting is very simple. Extrapolate that to a power grid and the electronics to be run on the grid and it’s essentially impossible for a small community to accomplish on their own.
It’s easy to say “oh they have the knowledge they can revive modern tech”. And it’s another to actually do that, based on ethnographies of the real world and history on how technology changes tends to support the theory that even if knowledge is intact, that’s only a quarter of the equation of manufacturing modern technology.
2) most of the prepulse world is gone due to a lot of damaging factors that I’ll skim here. It isn’t like drekir are finding intact TVs or functional bits of steel, they are scraping through rubble that had been hit by cataclysm after disaster for small useful pieces of metal. More often than not these are pieces of copper or aluminum.
They don’t have anything to work with and literature on infrastructural collapse and technological transitions disagrees with your notion of people making modern technology from scratch.
3) there are priorities that go above making a car or a flashlight. When you have people to feed today chemistry for biofuel is useless. Mostly because you lack the equipment and more importantly because you need to eat now. A gun takes a lot more knowledge and resources than the average layman has, but a spear thrower is a lot easier to make and, with a few weeks or so of practice you can get some not insubstantial accuracy.
I think you vastly overestimate what post collapse communities can do, it’s not about being stupid it’s the economic, sociological and technological reality of the world we live in.
Modern tech exists solely thanks to the complex chains of infrastructure, highly specialized individuals, and supporting technologies from other chains that allow that tech to exist.
Isolated peoples with few resources can know how to build a car all they want. But without the modern tools, resources, organization and specialization it may as well be useless. You simply cannot go from nothing to modern technology, it’s now how history has worked every nor is it how the dragonscape would work,
If you want more on that i got some readings:
Collapse by Jared Diamond
1177BC: The day civilization collapsed
The collapse of complex societies by Joseph A Tainter
People’s of the tundra: a post communist transition by Ziker
And also as some cases of historical, Protohistorical, and contemporary collapses and their effects i would read about:
1) The Netufi climate change collapse of the little ice age.
2) The Bronze Age collapse and how the collapse of complex trade relations hindered or collapsed societies who couldn’t make their own metallurgy.
3) The Roman decline and how the breakdown of complex chains of manufacture resulted in simple, less sophisticated local industries to pop up.
4) The old copper culture shift in prehistoric North America and how or why cultures change to different states of technology.
5) The collapse of 19th century China and how it impacted technology and economies across China, often causing a return to less complex forms of technology.
The Argentine collapse and how folks were living prior to international aid
Or the Syrian collapse and how that has continued to impact technology in the region and how it has forced a heavy reliance on international import instead of local manufacture.
I think what I will end with is:
People transitioning to less sophisticated technology happens all the time and has less to do with an indivuals or groups knowledge and more to do with the environment they are living in.
Not everything’s a survival game where a small community goes from stone spears to machine guns.
I'm well aware that much of what they'd actually require for what we today would call technology would be absent, when I said technology I didn't mean things such as electronics or guns. I meant 8n the broader sense of things like hygiene, irrigation, basic biology, ect. That way they wouldn't be dependant on magic for doing anything above the level of banging ro KS together.
Although in hindsight this train of thought probably comes from the setting giving magic a dangerous/untrustworthy feeling due to its effects on people.
Although in hindsight this train of thought probably comes from the setting giving magic a dangerous/untrustworthy feeling due to its effects on people.
Sure, my point is very few technologies come from nowhere and most exist thanks to a long chain of prior technologies, specialists, and infrastructure to exist. In order to use that technology you need all of those present and working. Knowledge is limited by practical, physical and logistical limitations
Considering drekir can and do bathe and groom themselves that goes without saying and doesn’t really need much tech. Tons of plants can and have been used as soaps and bathing is pretty normal .
Irrigation is only as relevant as the efficacy of agriculture. Both considering drekir are mesocarnovores who don’t process cereal grains and their small numbers it’s more likely horticulture would be the go to and not irrigated dedicated agriculture.
Basic biology isn’t a technology. They tend to understand what they are at least by the time of Olis arrival.
And you seem to have this weird thing about banging rocks together as some sort of shitty way to run a society. I don’t want to sound hostile though I am curious where that is coming from as from an anthropological viewpoint it’s hard to say what degree of infrastructure would or couldn’t exist based on lithics alone.
And yeah magic is plenty dangerous, doesn’t stop drekir from using it but there is a lot of caution related to it.
Anywho hope this doesn’t sound hostile that’s not intended.
Considering drekir can and do bathe and groom themselves that goes without saying and doesn’t really need much tech. Tons of plants can and have been used as soaps and bathing is pretty normal .
Irrigation is only as relevant as the efficacy of agriculture. Both considering drekir are mesocarnovores who don’t process cereal grains and their small numbers it’s more likely horticulture would be the go to and not irrigated dedicated agriculture.
Basic biology isn’t a technology. They tend to understand what they are at least by the time of Olis arrival.
And you seem to have this weird thing about banging rocks together as some sort of shitty way to run a society. I don’t want to sound hostile though I am curious where that is coming from as from an anthropological viewpoint it’s hard to say what degree of infrastructure would or couldn’t exist based on lithics alone.
And yeah magic is plenty dangerous, doesn’t stop drekir from using it but there is a lot of caution related to it.
Anywho hope this doesn’t sound hostile that’s not intended.
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