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definitely the world those in power seem to be trying to create...this obsession with totalitarianism from the people in charge of mitigating this pandemic is truly frightening...you can be against all of that without being anti-vax, or anti-science, or anti-whatever... it irritates me to no end how you get called these untrue things if you even state your OPINION against the main media-approved narrative
its the same bullshit that happened after 9/11, and it blows my mind the people have been fooled again (though not really...its just we have a censorship apparatus that is much more effective than it was 20 years ago)
its the same bullshit that happened after 9/11, and it blows my mind the people have been fooled again (though not really...its just we have a censorship apparatus that is much more effective than it was 20 years ago)
listen, i dont care what you do with your life to make existence feel safe for you, if you agree with all the instructions/mandates we're being given, fine, you do you. i dont buy the narratives because this is a NOVEL issue that has been evolving before our very eyes since 2020, how can we possibly speak with certainty about anything regarding covid mitigation when the experts themselves are still trying to figure it out?
what ive seen since this whole thing began, is professionals come up with theories that change by the minute, and politicians who are desperate to do *something* to look competent and take the matter seriously, imposing very heavy handed policies that are questionably legal and ethically unsound.
masks would have been symbols of protection had our governments and corporations not *forced* everybody to wear them. the covid vaccines might have been symbols of medical progress had our governments and corporations not *forced* everybody to get them. the ability to choose is a core feature of a democratic society, remove that ability and you have a totalitarian society.
what ive seen since this whole thing began, is professionals come up with theories that change by the minute, and politicians who are desperate to do *something* to look competent and take the matter seriously, imposing very heavy handed policies that are questionably legal and ethically unsound.
masks would have been symbols of protection had our governments and corporations not *forced* everybody to wear them. the covid vaccines might have been symbols of medical progress had our governments and corporations not *forced* everybody to get them. the ability to choose is a core feature of a democratic society, remove that ability and you have a totalitarian society.
Replace the word 'mask' or 'vaccine' with 'seat belt' in what you wrote and see if it doesn't sound wrong to you. The government forces us to do things for the safety of ourselves or others all the time. Various vaccines have been required for school, jobs, travel, etc for ages. Mask mandates are nothing new during pandemics, just look back at the flu pandemic in the early 1900's. Heck basically everybody got the smallpox vaccine and that left a big old scar on you. At 18 every male in the US is required to sign up for the damn draft still, that seems far more of an exercise of power over our lives than any of these precautions.
I think people are just tired of the pandemic and have a natural resistance to doing things they are told they have to do, and these combine to make people frustrated and upset and want to lash out even at measures that are designed to help everyone. People want things to go back the way they were, and masks etc feel like part of the pandemic. Between that and how politics got into the whole thing with some people in power trying to pretend everything is fine and safety measures therefore becoming a criticism of them, we're at a point now where people are starting to feel like these precautions are an attack on their values or identity.
Even if it turns out that masks or vaccination or whatnot are less effective than expected, its still better to try than to do nothing. Even if they are only slightly effective, they will still cut down on deaths to some degree. So why not do them? Especially because pretty much all of them are merely inconvenient. Covid was the #1 cause of death among people 35-55 last month, that is not good, not good at all. Covid is approaching double the number of people killed in the US as our total casualties in WWII (military and civilian) in half the time. That's crazy! And we're complaining about having to wear a mask sometimes?! In my opinion we need to take it very seriously and we need to stick to what safety measures we have if we want to try and keep it as low as we can.
I think people are just tired of the pandemic and have a natural resistance to doing things they are told they have to do, and these combine to make people frustrated and upset and want to lash out even at measures that are designed to help everyone. People want things to go back the way they were, and masks etc feel like part of the pandemic. Between that and how politics got into the whole thing with some people in power trying to pretend everything is fine and safety measures therefore becoming a criticism of them, we're at a point now where people are starting to feel like these precautions are an attack on their values or identity.
Even if it turns out that masks or vaccination or whatnot are less effective than expected, its still better to try than to do nothing. Even if they are only slightly effective, they will still cut down on deaths to some degree. So why not do them? Especially because pretty much all of them are merely inconvenient. Covid was the #1 cause of death among people 35-55 last month, that is not good, not good at all. Covid is approaching double the number of people killed in the US as our total casualties in WWII (military and civilian) in half the time. That's crazy! And we're complaining about having to wear a mask sometimes?! In my opinion we need to take it very seriously and we need to stick to what safety measures we have if we want to try and keep it as low as we can.
seat belts dont protect those around you like they've been claiming with masks, only the wearer (im so tired of this argument), and they dont mandate the smallpox vaccine anymore since its the only disease on earth the WHO has declared "eradicated", and the draft has been functionally obsolete since the end of the Vietnam war. these vaccines are not time-tested medicines, its unethical to force people to get something we dont even know what the long term effects are...its unethical to force people to wear masks when even people like Fauci have said they dont do much to filter viruses (and if anything cause more harm to whose wearing them, on top of being dehumanizing and fear-eliciting) if i blew on the front of an approaching freight train, the physics will tell me i did slow it down...but not enough to make any real difference
maybe then they should be allowed to do what they feel makes them safe? maybe those that "choose wrong" and dont mask/vax up should be left alone because they're allegedly citizens of a free society as well who have the right to bodily autonomy? maybe instead of creating a segregationist society based on vaccine status, we simply respect the choice people have made. you take an infinite amount of risks simply by going outside each day, and this includes the potential exposure to viruses...welcome to planet Earth? covid is gonna be with us forever, its not even really pandemic anymore so yeah, you live with endemic viruses by doing what makes you feel safe and respecting the decisions of others. force "precautions" on people long enough and you're damn right it becomes an attack on their values or identity...its an attack on you too, even if you happen to agree with those precautions...
personally i think the statistics in the US have been WILDLY exaggerated but whatever, lets say those numbers are true. keep counting long enough and everything becomes the worst XY or Z in history
maybe then they should be allowed to do what they feel makes them safe? maybe those that "choose wrong" and dont mask/vax up should be left alone because they're allegedly citizens of a free society as well who have the right to bodily autonomy? maybe instead of creating a segregationist society based on vaccine status, we simply respect the choice people have made. you take an infinite amount of risks simply by going outside each day, and this includes the potential exposure to viruses...welcome to planet Earth? covid is gonna be with us forever, its not even really pandemic anymore so yeah, you live with endemic viruses by doing what makes you feel safe and respecting the decisions of others. force "precautions" on people long enough and you're damn right it becomes an attack on their values or identity...its an attack on you too, even if you happen to agree with those precautions...
personally i think the statistics in the US have been WILDLY exaggerated but whatever, lets say those numbers are true. keep counting long enough and everything becomes the worst XY or Z in history
Seat belts absolutely protect people in the same car as you, many videos on this but here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3InF19dzlM an unbelted passenger turns into a giant projectile.
Many other vaccines have been and often still are mandated (not just smallpox and covid) for similar purposes to the mandates now, work, school, travel etc. Yellow fever for example. It's nothing new.
My example of the draft was to illustrate the use of power over our lives which you seem to object to for these small intrusions surrounding covid but not for other things the govt does. My point is that the govt holds the power to require far more intrusive things, has exercised and continues to exercise this power. Why is the covid stuff suddenly the thing to object to?
There's no reason to suspect that the vaccines would have long term effects, no vaccine has ever had a long term effect that didn't show up almost immediately, the way they work with the immune system means that side effects occur within ~2 months. There isn't enough material in any vaccine to have systemic effects over the long term except those which occur in immune response changes (eg allergic reactions) which would occur in the short term. The covid vaccines are, at this point, more studied than any other vaccine ever and in vast sample sizes. If we were going to have problems in large numbers we'd know by now.
The preponderance of evidence show masks do work significantly well, but lets assume they only work a small amount, are not the continuing chain of lives saved from that small amount worth wearing a mask sometimes. I'd say its the hidden cost that makes people willing to accept this. If say, we could track it perfectly and if you got sick and passed it on and somone died, like you'd get a message saying so, and we knew for sure, everyone would wear a mask, nobody would want to be responsible for even 1 death. But because we cant see it if it happens, people fight it.
The reason that people who don't want to get vaccinated or wear a mask are being pushed to do so is simply because by not doing so they are putting others in danger. Even if you discount the spread of the virus, the amounts of hospital beds and other resources we've seen taken up by those sick and dying from covid (now almost entirely vaccinated people) are interfering with the ability of other people to get hospital care in some regions. People with heart attacks strokes and similar are showing up to clogged hospitals and the wait is killing them. However you slice it, people are dying because others aren't acting safely. Also, they are putting the lives of people with weak immune systems and similar more at risk. And they are giving the virus a large population to spread into and potentially mutate, potentially creating more mutations faster and leading to a decrease in the effectiveness of the vaccines.
It would be different if it only affected the people who weren't taking precautions. You don't want to get a blood transfusion because your religion says not to? Fine with me, it only affects you. This is not that. Heck, think of it like smoking, you can smoke, and we know it'll probably kill you eventually, but you aren't allowed to do it around other people (restaurants, work etc.). The cutoff is where your behavior is dangerous to others.
Even if the statistics are exaggerated lets say only 25% of deaths are accurate to covid, thats nearly 10x as deadly as influenza in the 18-49 age range, so discounting like old vulnerable people. And thats if only 25% of deaths are accurate.
Let me put it another way, how deadly does a disease need to be before you are ok with requiring precautions?
Many other vaccines have been and often still are mandated (not just smallpox and covid) for similar purposes to the mandates now, work, school, travel etc. Yellow fever for example. It's nothing new.
My example of the draft was to illustrate the use of power over our lives which you seem to object to for these small intrusions surrounding covid but not for other things the govt does. My point is that the govt holds the power to require far more intrusive things, has exercised and continues to exercise this power. Why is the covid stuff suddenly the thing to object to?
There's no reason to suspect that the vaccines would have long term effects, no vaccine has ever had a long term effect that didn't show up almost immediately, the way they work with the immune system means that side effects occur within ~2 months. There isn't enough material in any vaccine to have systemic effects over the long term except those which occur in immune response changes (eg allergic reactions) which would occur in the short term. The covid vaccines are, at this point, more studied than any other vaccine ever and in vast sample sizes. If we were going to have problems in large numbers we'd know by now.
The preponderance of evidence show masks do work significantly well, but lets assume they only work a small amount, are not the continuing chain of lives saved from that small amount worth wearing a mask sometimes. I'd say its the hidden cost that makes people willing to accept this. If say, we could track it perfectly and if you got sick and passed it on and somone died, like you'd get a message saying so, and we knew for sure, everyone would wear a mask, nobody would want to be responsible for even 1 death. But because we cant see it if it happens, people fight it.
The reason that people who don't want to get vaccinated or wear a mask are being pushed to do so is simply because by not doing so they are putting others in danger. Even if you discount the spread of the virus, the amounts of hospital beds and other resources we've seen taken up by those sick and dying from covid (now almost entirely vaccinated people) are interfering with the ability of other people to get hospital care in some regions. People with heart attacks strokes and similar are showing up to clogged hospitals and the wait is killing them. However you slice it, people are dying because others aren't acting safely. Also, they are putting the lives of people with weak immune systems and similar more at risk. And they are giving the virus a large population to spread into and potentially mutate, potentially creating more mutations faster and leading to a decrease in the effectiveness of the vaccines.
It would be different if it only affected the people who weren't taking precautions. You don't want to get a blood transfusion because your religion says not to? Fine with me, it only affects you. This is not that. Heck, think of it like smoking, you can smoke, and we know it'll probably kill you eventually, but you aren't allowed to do it around other people (restaurants, work etc.). The cutoff is where your behavior is dangerous to others.
Even if the statistics are exaggerated lets say only 25% of deaths are accurate to covid, thats nearly 10x as deadly as influenza in the 18-49 age range, so discounting like old vulnerable people. And thats if only 25% of deaths are accurate.
Let me put it another way, how deadly does a disease need to be before you are ok with requiring precautions?
much more deadly than this. the mortality rate for covid is less than 2%, and the majority of people dying are 65+ who are of the age where ANY infectious disease has a higher likelihood of doing more harm and/or resulting in death. if the masks and vaccines worked so well, why is Singapore seeing such a spike in cases after having some of the strictest covid measures in the world, as well as having over 80% of their population fully vaccinated? seems to me like the masks and vaccines are a false sense of security, seems to me like forcing them is just a crutch to convey a sense of competence when they dont do much in the first place, or its something much more sinister that perhaps has nothing to do with covid...
i dont think you realize how dangerous of a slippery slope you're treading when you and all the other people 100% on board with this garbage start using that whole "putting others in danger" line of logic. life is dangerous, and the balance between safety and liberty is something that has led to horrors unimaginable throughout history. that, and every war that has ever been started has been the result of one group trying to control the other, just leave people the hell alone...going out in public without a mask/vax and living your life like a human being is not what i would consider a threat to my personal safety
its ok if you're pro-segregation and pro-totalitarianism, these are all things the covid mitigations represent and if thats your thing, fine, own it. just dont be surprised when people say "fuck you" to your forced mask wearing, and ESPECIALLY your forced vaccines. i will not comply or agree with these things and honestly, im not sure why i even try engaging people who are for all this stuff anymore...im not going to change their minds and they arent going to change mine, so whats the point? this is why you dont realize how many people are actually against this medical tyranny...nobody wants to say what they really think cuz drones on either side have to attack those who feel differently.
kinda done discussing this. fuck your masks, your lockdowns, and your vaccine. the harder you push people to comply, the more resistance you're going to experience, take a hint and back the hell off. all the propaganda and censorship in the world wont convince people who have already made up their minds
i dont think you realize how dangerous of a slippery slope you're treading when you and all the other people 100% on board with this garbage start using that whole "putting others in danger" line of logic. life is dangerous, and the balance between safety and liberty is something that has led to horrors unimaginable throughout history. that, and every war that has ever been started has been the result of one group trying to control the other, just leave people the hell alone...going out in public without a mask/vax and living your life like a human being is not what i would consider a threat to my personal safety
its ok if you're pro-segregation and pro-totalitarianism, these are all things the covid mitigations represent and if thats your thing, fine, own it. just dont be surprised when people say "fuck you" to your forced mask wearing, and ESPECIALLY your forced vaccines. i will not comply or agree with these things and honestly, im not sure why i even try engaging people who are for all this stuff anymore...im not going to change their minds and they arent going to change mine, so whats the point? this is why you dont realize how many people are actually against this medical tyranny...nobody wants to say what they really think cuz drones on either side have to attack those who feel differently.
kinda done discussing this. fuck your masks, your lockdowns, and your vaccine. the harder you push people to comply, the more resistance you're going to experience, take a hint and back the hell off. all the propaganda and censorship in the world wont convince people who have already made up their minds
Well the person I was conversing with here blocked me so I cant reply to them, but for anyone else who reads this conversation later, I'll just reply to my own comment.
I was going to say to them that I was sorry if the conversation was making them upset but I was trying to be polite as possible and that I wouldn't respond anymore if they wanted to end the conversation. It's sometimes hard to convey tone over text, I try and formulate my sentences to sound calm and evenhanded but sometimes you can't win :( I probably got a little less neutral in tone than I should have at some points.
Nobody has ever blocked me to my knowledge before, and I've been on this website for a long time now. It makes me sad...
I am concerned that the internet is making a lot of people totally unused to having their point of view challenged. People just gather in echo chambers where they can hear that what they already believe is right and everyone else is stupid. I hate this and that's why I try to respectfully engage with people who don't agree with me and set out why I hold the opinions that I do. There was a time on the internet where this was the norm (or something like it), but nowadays it's getting harder and harder.
If someone is not dedicated to the idea that they will change their mind based on new evidence, well thats pretty rough in my opinion. In my mind, nobody should ever 'make up their mind' on anything of this nature. For example, if solid convincing new info comes out from good reliable sources that says that I'm totally wrong in all or part of what I said above then I am happy to abandon all those positions. Or even if someone can make a convincing argument to me that I'm wrong. I'm just sticking with the best sources and evidence I know of at this time. It's impossible to get the actual definite truth about almost anything at 100% so I think that's all we can do. Being flexible in opinion and belief is part of being a rational person to me.
I was pretty sure at this point I was not going to convince them, but I would have asked them what evidence would be needed to change their mind. I'd ask anyone who reads this the same thing. If you feel glued to your position, what would it take to change it? In my view we should always know that and strive to make sure we are reasonable in that determination.
As for their final points, (again for anyone else who comes and reads this conversation), I would say that 2% is 1 in 50. That's pretty dang bad in my opinion. Polio was 2-5% in children and we all acted to counter that. Like I said, last month it hit #1 Cause of death in people 35-54 in the US. That's not just old people. If it kills 2% of people and stays out there long enough that everyone gets it. that like 6.6 million deaths in just the US. That is way way too many imo.
I was going to say to them that I was sorry if the conversation was making them upset but I was trying to be polite as possible and that I wouldn't respond anymore if they wanted to end the conversation. It's sometimes hard to convey tone over text, I try and formulate my sentences to sound calm and evenhanded but sometimes you can't win :( I probably got a little less neutral in tone than I should have at some points.
Nobody has ever blocked me to my knowledge before, and I've been on this website for a long time now. It makes me sad...
I am concerned that the internet is making a lot of people totally unused to having their point of view challenged. People just gather in echo chambers where they can hear that what they already believe is right and everyone else is stupid. I hate this and that's why I try to respectfully engage with people who don't agree with me and set out why I hold the opinions that I do. There was a time on the internet where this was the norm (or something like it), but nowadays it's getting harder and harder.
If someone is not dedicated to the idea that they will change their mind based on new evidence, well thats pretty rough in my opinion. In my mind, nobody should ever 'make up their mind' on anything of this nature. For example, if solid convincing new info comes out from good reliable sources that says that I'm totally wrong in all or part of what I said above then I am happy to abandon all those positions. Or even if someone can make a convincing argument to me that I'm wrong. I'm just sticking with the best sources and evidence I know of at this time. It's impossible to get the actual definite truth about almost anything at 100% so I think that's all we can do. Being flexible in opinion and belief is part of being a rational person to me.
I was pretty sure at this point I was not going to convince them, but I would have asked them what evidence would be needed to change their mind. I'd ask anyone who reads this the same thing. If you feel glued to your position, what would it take to change it? In my view we should always know that and strive to make sure we are reasonable in that determination.
As for their final points, (again for anyone else who comes and reads this conversation), I would say that 2% is 1 in 50. That's pretty dang bad in my opinion. Polio was 2-5% in children and we all acted to counter that. Like I said, last month it hit #1 Cause of death in people 35-54 in the US. That's not just old people. If it kills 2% of people and stays out there long enough that everyone gets it. that like 6.6 million deaths in just the US. That is way way too many imo.
Not to mention everyone's focusing on the low mortality rate from the disease alone and not the long-term medical problems it can cause even if you make it out alive. The spike proteins in the disease are unique in that they allow the virus easy access into your vital organs, which means that if you're REALLY lucky, your body will kill it off with minimal problems, but if it does hit those other organs (heart, liver, kidneys, and especially the lungs and respiratory system in general) you're looking at long-term damage that'll spring off to other problems. There's already kids having major fatigue (they call it "COVID Naps") months after recovering from the initial infection. There's people permanently losing their sense of taste and smell, or having those senses warped to where everything tastes and smells awful instead (due to damage in the brain's receptors).
When it comes to preventing spread and deaths, it's a time game as well. We're not as worried about the initial strain as what this shit could turn into in the next 10 years. If people keep letting it spread, mutate and worsen, and we're stuck developing new vaccines for the next 6 strains, we're looking at this being the new reality until humanity either actually eradicates it (And fat chance of that given how amazingly spreadable this virus is) or it eradicates us. For all the people crying "police state" they fail to realize that dead people can't pay taxes, contribute to the economy or run for public office. The governments of the world have a vested interest in public health for those reasons.
This fine gentleman gave the best response to the "It's overhyped!" argument I've ever seen.
When it comes to preventing spread and deaths, it's a time game as well. We're not as worried about the initial strain as what this shit could turn into in the next 10 years. If people keep letting it spread, mutate and worsen, and we're stuck developing new vaccines for the next 6 strains, we're looking at this being the new reality until humanity either actually eradicates it (And fat chance of that given how amazingly spreadable this virus is) or it eradicates us. For all the people crying "police state" they fail to realize that dead people can't pay taxes, contribute to the economy or run for public office. The governments of the world have a vested interest in public health for those reasons.
This fine gentleman gave the best response to the "It's overhyped!" argument I've ever seen.
Fifteen years of not knowing someone, casually seeing them in artwork across the website, and this one singular thread completely and openly reveals deep glimpses into people's psyche that I'm not sure they want revealed as openly as they are just here.
Specifically, seeing MasterSharkPlane's name in this thread is devastating to me, but, eh. I've grown used to learning things about people this way. :3 I keep calm and carry on.
Specifically, seeing MasterSharkPlane's name in this thread is devastating to me, but, eh. I've grown used to learning things about people this way. :3 I keep calm and carry on.
devastating? who are you again? if you're somebody who knew me back when i was on DA then yeah...surprise surprise, people change, i cant hold beliefs that dont reflect the reality that we currently occupy. i was a dumb naive kid back then like a lot of the people currently commenting here. the people i used to think were for freedom of speech, freedom of choice, etc, were in fact for the complete opposite...i cant stay faithful to people who no longer represent my core beliefs, i dont buy the doublespeak or the untruths. if staying true to one's principles regardless of political affiliation is "devastating" to you, then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your take on life as well. but you're right about covid being a litmus test for political beliefs...i never thought it would turn into that but yeah, once one side started demanding politicians restrict the activities of people's daily lives, what did they expect would happen?
but to me the choice between control and freedom is a no-brainer, what do you think?
but to me the choice between control and freedom is a no-brainer, what do you think?
I've known you on Deviantart, Furrafinity, all the way back to the days when you were LMAOSharkPlane.
Unlike many of the people you are around though, just because something "devastates" me, doesn't mean that I will absolutely cut somebody out of my lfie or anything like that. That's something I associate with...well, what you just did here. So if you want to do that, that's fine, I'm used to it. I'm literally friends with a white nationalist as a brown skinned individual, and we talk all the time. Not sure what poltiical shit you grew up with, but I've got more important things in life to worry about than "Freedmon" and "Control" like keeping my parents alive, whom, are in their 70's, beacuse of people who would value them as nothing more than a statistic.
I hope that you do not get seriously affected by this virus and its mutations, and hope that you don't lose people close to you by putting out your intimate self. I know that in this politically charged environment that is a thing, but that is something that I do not wish upon anybody.
Usually the one question that ends these conversations in a heartbeat.
"Do you take your shoes, and shirt off when entering a restaurant? Or do you refuse to wear seatbelts?" I know how it will be said that it is hardly the same thing, but that is also the source of further disagreement. Simply because of "The Choice" between "Freedom" or "Control" doesn't boil down that simply.
In a car accident, the Human Body becomes a meat projectile without a seatbelt. Not wearing one's seatbelt can literally kill more than just the person not wearing the belt in the car crash. That's the logic that is being disputed here. Why should I keep wearing my seatbelt, then? It's a personal choice, after all.
Unlike many of the people you are around though, just because something "devastates" me, doesn't mean that I will absolutely cut somebody out of my lfie or anything like that. That's something I associate with...well, what you just did here. So if you want to do that, that's fine, I'm used to it. I'm literally friends with a white nationalist as a brown skinned individual, and we talk all the time. Not sure what poltiical shit you grew up with, but I've got more important things in life to worry about than "Freedmon" and "Control" like keeping my parents alive, whom, are in their 70's, beacuse of people who would value them as nothing more than a statistic.
I hope that you do not get seriously affected by this virus and its mutations, and hope that you don't lose people close to you by putting out your intimate self. I know that in this politically charged environment that is a thing, but that is something that I do not wish upon anybody.
Usually the one question that ends these conversations in a heartbeat.
"Do you take your shoes, and shirt off when entering a restaurant? Or do you refuse to wear seatbelts?" I know how it will be said that it is hardly the same thing, but that is also the source of further disagreement. Simply because of "The Choice" between "Freedom" or "Control" doesn't boil down that simply.
In a car accident, the Human Body becomes a meat projectile without a seatbelt. Not wearing one's seatbelt can literally kill more than just the person not wearing the belt in the car crash. That's the logic that is being disputed here. Why should I keep wearing my seatbelt, then? It's a personal choice, after all.
yeah well im done trying to engage in civil conversation with these fucking people when they dont give a shit about anybody who isnt as devout as they are, and arent out to discuss the topic from the point of trying to understand those that disagree with them, only how to prove them wrong and rub it in their face. this is how EVERY conversation with these damn covid cultists has gone...sorry for not buying into your fucking religion...because thats what covid is now, the science behind it is as religious in nature as any organized faith in the world. it requires blind faith with evidence that does not make sense (not anymore at least, nearly 2 years in), requires ritual worship in the form of wearing certain garments and consuming certain medicines, requires every believer to act as missionaries to convert people to their side...and if you do not agree as they do, you're a heretic to them that simply deserves to die. science is not religion, i wish these covid cultists would understand that. the act of questioning and not agreeing with the decisions of (scientifically religious) figures like Fauci and Walensky isnt anti-science, i get so tired of this being thrown at me whenever i talk to these people. i get tired of being accused of being a member of Qanon or a Trump disciple for having these views. im tired of being called an anti-vaxxer, anti-science, etc...most of the time its people ive NEVER EVEN MET accusing me of these things too, its like motherfucker, you dont know me enough to say that! the assumptions being made about people who dont agree with mask/vax mandates...are just unbelievable, its bigotry no matter what CNN might say.
so yeah...its where all these conversations were going, its where they all came from, so i ended them. and yeah i made the mistake of engaging them in the first place so whatever, shame on me...perhaps these people need to realize that they arent going to convert everybody, and that going on crusades trying to hunt down posts that criticize the mainstream covid narratives and attacking the people who agree (no matter how civilly) isnt going to help convert non-believers. this desire to hunt down and attack people who dont agree with Fauci, the CDC, WHO, etc...is almost entirely partisan too...most people on the conservative side of things just want to be left the fuck alone at this point. to me its much easier to leave people the fuck alone instead of trying to convert them.
all that matters is your ability to choose and your ability to speak. whats the point of surviving a pandemic, or terrorist attack, or whatever, if the world you helped create in order to feel safe is no longer a free one? congratulations for making it through! just dont expect to say certain things now, or have the ability to make your own decisions about certain things now...sorry, but fuck that. was bad enough seeing this after 9/11 and even worse with covid 20 years later. i'll be fighting for a free society rather than a controlled one until the day i die, or get thrown in a political prison somewhere once the totalitarians really take over...these masks and vaccines could have been positive symbols had they not been forced, now they're symbols of tyranny and i will stop at nothing to oppose them. agree, dont agree, i dont really care, just leave me the fuck alone. worry about yourself and your own damn problems >.<
im fine if you dont want to wear a seat belt, or take your shirt/shoes off in a restaurant (or wear a mask and take experimental vaccines) do what you feel keeps you safe and dont give me shit for doing something else
so yeah...its where all these conversations were going, its where they all came from, so i ended them. and yeah i made the mistake of engaging them in the first place so whatever, shame on me...perhaps these people need to realize that they arent going to convert everybody, and that going on crusades trying to hunt down posts that criticize the mainstream covid narratives and attacking the people who agree (no matter how civilly) isnt going to help convert non-believers. this desire to hunt down and attack people who dont agree with Fauci, the CDC, WHO, etc...is almost entirely partisan too...most people on the conservative side of things just want to be left the fuck alone at this point. to me its much easier to leave people the fuck alone instead of trying to convert them.
all that matters is your ability to choose and your ability to speak. whats the point of surviving a pandemic, or terrorist attack, or whatever, if the world you helped create in order to feel safe is no longer a free one? congratulations for making it through! just dont expect to say certain things now, or have the ability to make your own decisions about certain things now...sorry, but fuck that. was bad enough seeing this after 9/11 and even worse with covid 20 years later. i'll be fighting for a free society rather than a controlled one until the day i die, or get thrown in a political prison somewhere once the totalitarians really take over...these masks and vaccines could have been positive symbols had they not been forced, now they're symbols of tyranny and i will stop at nothing to oppose them. agree, dont agree, i dont really care, just leave me the fuck alone. worry about yourself and your own damn problems >.<
im fine if you dont want to wear a seat belt, or take your shirt/shoes off in a restaurant (or wear a mask and take experimental vaccines) do what you feel keeps you safe and dont give me shit for doing something else
definitely aware of that >.< is why all the crap coming out of the covid response scares me. 20 years after the patriot act and the knowledge by both political parties of how damaging that was to our civil liberties and privacy rights...and still it has yet to go away. all about the power i guess. how many other civil liberty/privacy destroying policies coming out of the covid response might still be around 20 years from now despite (eventual) universal dislike by average people and freshmen politicians?
its like watching all the same political mistakes being made by the opposite party this time around, just reminds me of that classic quote "there is nothing so permanent as a temporary governmental measure"
its like watching all the same political mistakes being made by the opposite party this time around, just reminds me of that classic quote "there is nothing so permanent as a temporary governmental measure"
People who often for herd immunity often reduce deaths to being just numbers. But when you deal with how much is required for that sort of "Herd" immunity, the numbers do get to 3-6 million levels, and if that's an "acceptable" level of "survivable virus" death, then I don't want to be around those people, because I'm sure that a certain other set of groups would have also likely been a "survivable" set as well.
I'm glad these posts are here though. I'm also glad that you're not willing to throw away 6 million lives just because you don't see the families associated with those 6 million "sacrifices".
It's always "Until it happens to them" then by then, it's too late.
I'm glad these posts are here though. I'm also glad that you're not willing to throw away 6 million lives just because you don't see the families associated with those 6 million "sacrifices".
It's always "Until it happens to them" then by then, it's too late.
I dont think you realize how dangerous of a slippery slope you're treading when you and all the other people 100% on board with this garbage start using that whole "putting others in danger" line of logic.
"Slippery slope" is a fallacy, always has been, likely always will be.
life is dangerous, and the balance between safety and liberty is something that has led to horrors unimaginable throughout history.
Your right to be demasked and unvaxxed and cough, sneeze and spit your fucking virus ends where my respiratory tract begins. There's 8 billion other intelligent apes than you on this planet. Act like it. Nice fallacy there talking about giving up liberty for safety. How about other's liberty not to die from a preventable infection?
that, and every war that has ever been started has been the result of one group trying to control the other, just leave people the hell alone...going out in public without a mask/vax and living your life like a human being is not what i would consider a threat to my personal safety
Such hubris! You know how many anti-mask/anti-vaxxers on YouTube and TikTok prancing around in public "refusing to be controlled" ended up dead of COVID, leaving their families to suffer without them? See you in the ICU.
its ok if you're pro-segregation and pro-totalitarianism, these are all things the covid mitigations represent and if thats your thing, fine, own it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you seriously are going to compare having to look after your health as the same as Jim Crow laws, political gulags and concentration camps. Jesus fucking Christ I can't tell if you're just THAT dense, or are trolling at this point.
just dont be surprised when people say "fuck you" to your forced mask wearing, and ESPECIALLY your forced vaccines.
We've been requiring the MMR and polio vaccines in public schools since they came out in the 50's and 60's. They've saved countless lives and the people behind their development have been lauded as heroes for decades now. Funny how the people bitching were totally on board with the vaccine when their dictator was in power and launched Operation Warp Speed but now that their political opponent is President it's evil and wrong. Almost like they're all being manipulated by some fascist otaku dipshit in the Philippines LARPing as a government insider while living off his crazy father.
honestly, im not sure why i even try engaging people who are for all this stuff anymore...im not going to change their minds and they arent going to change mine, so whats the point?
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than that of willful ignorance, and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
all the propaganda and censorship in the world wont convince people who have already made up their minds
A mind is like a parachute, it only functions when it is open.
"Slippery slope" is a fallacy, always has been, likely always will be.
life is dangerous, and the balance between safety and liberty is something that has led to horrors unimaginable throughout history.
Your right to be demasked and unvaxxed and cough, sneeze and spit your fucking virus ends where my respiratory tract begins. There's 8 billion other intelligent apes than you on this planet. Act like it. Nice fallacy there talking about giving up liberty for safety. How about other's liberty not to die from a preventable infection?
that, and every war that has ever been started has been the result of one group trying to control the other, just leave people the hell alone...going out in public without a mask/vax and living your life like a human being is not what i would consider a threat to my personal safety
Such hubris! You know how many anti-mask/anti-vaxxers on YouTube and TikTok prancing around in public "refusing to be controlled" ended up dead of COVID, leaving their families to suffer without them? See you in the ICU.
its ok if you're pro-segregation and pro-totalitarianism, these are all things the covid mitigations represent and if thats your thing, fine, own it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you seriously are going to compare having to look after your health as the same as Jim Crow laws, political gulags and concentration camps. Jesus fucking Christ I can't tell if you're just THAT dense, or are trolling at this point.
just dont be surprised when people say "fuck you" to your forced mask wearing, and ESPECIALLY your forced vaccines.
We've been requiring the MMR and polio vaccines in public schools since they came out in the 50's and 60's. They've saved countless lives and the people behind their development have been lauded as heroes for decades now. Funny how the people bitching were totally on board with the vaccine when their dictator was in power and launched Operation Warp Speed but now that their political opponent is President it's evil and wrong. Almost like they're all being manipulated by some fascist otaku dipshit in the Philippines LARPing as a government insider while living off his crazy father.
honestly, im not sure why i even try engaging people who are for all this stuff anymore...im not going to change their minds and they arent going to change mine, so whats the point?
"There is no force more dangerous in this world than that of willful ignorance, and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
all the propaganda and censorship in the world wont convince people who have already made up their minds
A mind is like a parachute, it only functions when it is open.
such a good little sheep, you expecting a reward or something for your sign of devotion? you might have to prostrate harder than that...
in the mean time i'll continue living my life like a proper human being, in defiance of the tyranny you support, until you fuckers inevitably start the second Civil War. sheep like you temper my resolve more than you could possibly imagine, so keep your pushing your totalitarian fetish, see what happens.
if you want to spend the rest of your life hiding in your basement, go right ahead, you'd be doing the world a favor
in the mean time i'll continue living my life like a proper human being, in defiance of the tyranny you support, until you fuckers inevitably start the second Civil War. sheep like you temper my resolve more than you could possibly imagine, so keep your pushing your totalitarian fetish, see what happens.
if you want to spend the rest of your life hiding in your basement, go right ahead, you'd be doing the world a favor
My entire understanding of someone's political beliefs shouldn't be able to be as open and shut as this mask thing has made it, recently. Like, this is Humanity at its most transparent...and as much of the comments here have talked about...
My political observations have lead me to conclude that you will now, in modern times, find two words that will be repeated ad infinitum. Control. Freedom.
How often a person uses those views when describing things they DON'T like, is now a political marker, and I hate that.
You already said you'd disengage but I will leave this as a thing for my reference as well.
My political observations have lead me to conclude that you will now, in modern times, find two words that will be repeated ad infinitum. Control. Freedom.
How often a person uses those views when describing things they DON'T like, is now a political marker, and I hate that.
You already said you'd disengage but I will leave this as a thing for my reference as well.
I have been following El Kitsune Goya for over two decades now. The moment I saw the letters "Dr. Fau" I knew this comments section would be so binary that there would be spoken word conversation length paragraphs posted. I believe I am fundamentally witnessing a shift from old Humanity to New Humanity.
People who refuse to accept that things aren't like 100 years ago, and those who want to be 100 years ahead. So, I'll ask anyone who still is bold enough to comment on this piece:
"What's the difference between an acceptable loss, and a τραγῳδία?"
People who refuse to accept that things aren't like 100 years ago, and those who want to be 100 years ahead. So, I'll ask anyone who still is bold enough to comment on this piece:
"What's the difference between an acceptable loss, and a τραγῳδία?"
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