This is going to get ugly.

Is it bad I want to see Hemlock die a painful and slow way? ^^

I'm going to say yes. I'm waiting to hear why exactly she is the way she is.
No, I'm not condoning her actions, but there's a reason behind her madness, I'm sure

her reasons don't matter although given the way this world works, the reason is very likely going to be her whole family having gotten eaten with her being the only survivor. tragic without a doubt but irrelevant. we all have choices to make in our lives and her choices led her down a path of hatred and revenge. she's become the kind of person who, if given the chance, would commit a genocide without a second thought. you've seen what she did to Egg, which was fucked up and you've also seen that she absolutely no remorse whatsoever and would do it again as she tried to do the same with our protag. she is to put it in a simple word: evil. preds kill to eat and survive. she kills out of hate.

it will be interesting to see what the future brings because there is already friction between her and Oren due to Oren not sharing her extremist views. will she form a radical splinter group and split away from Oren to do her own thing or will she murder Oren to become the next leader for, in her eyes, "the greater good of all"

my saying. She must be dealt with NOW

but if we would be dealing with her now, we'd be needing a new villain :-P

okaaay, for the sake of the plot... sighs XD

maybe there is a reason . but it still will not justify her doings.

Agreed. Her stance is still entirely reasonable given the world they exist in. (Messed up as said stance is) Tho granted, the sheer fire she has seems to hint that she's had a very personal trauma about it. Curious to see what it is.

technically they are all broken.. its like a chain of hate.
They all lost something directly or indirectly.

The difference is that while they all have something they could be hateful over, she's the only one (thus far) that acts on it instead of trying to find a way beyond it.

Irrelevant.

Oh I hope she suffers... endlessly, I havent wanted to see a character die in a comic more than I have Hemlock.

dito.

And in the process make the next generation of Hemlocks.~

Unfortunately you run into that issue when dealing with scared individuals who "look up to" a "strong" hard-hitting "leader"

Just saying, she /has/ suffered, it's what made her this way.

Applying the same thing yet again is not going to make it /better/, it may just make her worse.

I'm not ignoring the tragedy that has previously befallen her at all, but to treat Egg and Rask like she has been, from my POV she has become the very thing she seeks to destroy, a bloodthirsty killer.

Mmmmm, she's a lil' more involved than that, you'll see.

I did not want to bring "that" up XD

Not at all. Evil has no place in the world, even a fantasy one. Fear and ignorance is no path to leadership or a long life.

I would not keep Hamlok around, waiting for her to finally fuck the whole thing up XD

well I think his arc will have him prove himself somehow ...

God I love this comic so much- I do not condone what the rabbits did at all, but I understand where they were coming from and I like seeing this dynamic of them trying to rise above predators while retaining their humanity.
Also I will protect Egg with my life
She deserves the best and god this poor thing is traumatized, even if she doesn't act like it.

Well hemlock is failing at keeping the "humanity" she basically enjoys killing for the sport not for food and wants to commit genocide in a way.

As awful as Hemlock’s actions are, she’s definitely an interesting character, as are all of them. Her backstory does explain her deeds (as a patron on The Oren’s Forge Patreon, I know how her story goes), even if it didn’t 100% justify it. That’s what I love about comics and stories like these, whatever you think of Hemlock, it’s not necessarily wrong. She’s not evil, but damaged and flawed.

But the real question is, is she too damaged to be saved?

#TeamHemlock

#TeamHemlock

Is that some kind of movement to not demonize Hemlock?

---

Used machine translation.

It seems people who think that Hemlock is justified doing everything she's done because of something that happened to her/the way the world is and who either won't or can't see why it's morally abhorrent.

Morality tends to shift in different directions. To judge Hemlock on the basis of the ideas of modern mankind about what is permissible or not is wrong, as it seems to me personally.

I can understand the logic of her actions and assume the reasons that led to the emergence of this logic and her present emotions. If you do not watch through the prism of modern human morality, then her actions seem understandable and largely logical. Even if Hemlock’s reaction and judgment distorted by her perception, and in some places she’s overreacting.

At times, readers forget that they see the picture much more fully and from the outside, and for the characters, many facts and things are not obvious, doubtful or seem false. I noticed the readers' tendency in the comments to quickly make judgments, based on outbursts of emotions and feelings for the main character. I can’t blame them, but I think that emotional perception prevents a full assessment of what is happening.

---

Used machine translation.

People do keep trying to use this argument, but in just the last comic Sprig, the black squirrel, mentioned that while he initially felt powerful watching Hemlock pulverizing Egg at some point it felt ugly to him. Since he's in the same time period as the others there are two choices: either dismiss his comment as the artist forcing a modern moral view into the comic through a character or accepts that morality, in fact, does not shift but people find ways to justify amoral acts.

'morality, in fact, does not shift'

Oh good lord I could have a lot of fun with this one.

Did you know for the longest time gay sex was considered wildly immoral? It was *wrong*, everyone knew that. Red herring I know but, stay with me here. But what people view as moral or amoral shifts and changes over time. Certain things will always be seen as taboo it is true but there's a reason 'values dissonance' is it's own trope.

You can't say modern morality applies to a neolithic setting because Sprig didn't like seeing something.

Yes absolutely if Hemlock was a character set in the modern day and went and bashed a visiting Badger's skull in she would absolutely go to prison. That's how modern life and morality works, you don't take matters into your own hand like that. You don't immediately associate one member of a particular group with the actions of another. We have unimaginable luxury in being able to be very open minded because we can do so from a position of incredible safety.

Hemlock is in the stone age, the bronze age isn't even a thing, what they have right now doesn't count as *civilization* because they haven't figured out how to make bread. They are not hunters yet they have developed weapons specifically to kill other creatures courtesy of Oren. Their little settlement is specifically for herbivores where they would be *safe* from predators like Rask.

Reference: http://www.furaffinity.net/full/34180481/

In fact reference just two pages back of Rask *being a predator*: http://www.furaffinity.net/full/34063890/ http://www.furaffinity.net/full/34155476/

Another reference of the harbivores being terrified just by his *scent*: http://www.furaffinity.net/full/32392651/

Yes Hemlock is absolutely an angry Bunny, yes she is incredibly violent and *YES* she has a vicious streak a mile wide but people keep forgetting to look at things from where she stands. They just see the asshole Rabbit being mean to the main character and immediately want to get rid of her because they like Rask and Egg.

For me I like her because she is incredibly flawed but at the same time is a very deep character. She's prey in a world where Predators rule and the idea of fighting back is a new, fresh concept. This is someone for all her life almost certainly only knew suffering and pain at the hands of Predators and has almost certainly lost people she loved dearly. Then suddenly Oren brings her the tools to fight back, to allow her to do something other than run away, to let her *protect* those she holds dear instead of watching them get torn to bits.

So she shows them that predators are every bit as weak as they are, that they bleed and die, to show them that with the tools they now use they don't have to fear them. http://www.furaffinity.net/view/34684479/

Yeah it's goddamn awful that happened to Egg and it's not even slightly nice... but for Hemlock the crucial thing is to show the others that they can bring down a predator, alone, that is several times their size.

You can certainly say that this is all for Hemlock's benefit, to big herself up but I would say that she has been shown, more than once, to care for the others around her more than herself. She hasn't once feared for her own safety and many of her interactions regarding Rask has shown this. She wants the others to be able to live without fear of predators and to her the best way to achieve that is to show them they can bring them down.

So of course she's perpetually on-edge around Rask and watching his every movement for the first sign he's about to act on his natural urges to kill and eat. If he picked someone to kill and eat he wouldn't go for her, she's dangerous, she'd kill him. Her fear is that if she lets up for so much as a moment he'll take his chance to kill and /eat/ someone she loves.

That's what predators DO, it's how they survive. Killing and eating is not to them amoral, it's nature and nature is unfortunately hardcore.

Hemlock has only ever seen this, that is the only thing she has ever experienced from predators. http://www.furaffinity.net/full/32392674/

So for example, seeing him near the young not even ten minutes later from that outburst? Absolute fucking no-no. Not because she gets off on hurting predators but because she's a goddamn mother bear and they're near her cubs: http://www.furaffinity.net/full/32483433/ (You can practically hear 'get away from her you BITCH'.) I wouldn't be surprised if she felt nearly as protective to a great many other members of the group.

Look at the arm around one of them, look how RELAXED they are to stand near her. They're not afraid of her and it's clear she feels an affection for them.

So yes, she's going to be an absolute asshole to him and frankly I love that she doesn't just immediately back down from that on day two. It will take a VERY long time for mama bun to accept him if it ever happens and I'd be disappointed if she did make that heel-face-turn inside a week.

There are things that are universally taboo for good reason. I'm not arguing a values dissonance here about homosexuality or whatever else. I'm arguing what she did was morally wrong even to them. If it wasn't Sprig wouldn't have felt it was ugly and Oren wouldn't have stopped it and given it a name. Sprig wouldn't have felt that taking Rask's teeth could twist this.

None of what their arguing about with Rask, none of that is unreasonable. Not even Hemlock is being unreasonable most of the time especially not when it comes to defense. The one, the only thing I keep arguing over is that what she did to Egg was wrong. People keep trying to justify it. It's always "we can't judge another time period by our standards" but as I keep pointing out it's not just us that found it wrong. Both Sprig and Oren did as well.

What she did with Egg undid Egg. It wasn't that she was just too hurt to move--she is no longer what a badger is supposed to be. The attack was more than just showing they could overpower a predator--it was about revenge. It was about humiliation. It was no longer about protection. This is what made it wrong.

I may have misunderstood your other posts than, I got the impression you were arguing other points than what was done to Egg being wrong. (RE: Hemlock having the intent to overthrow Oren, 'justified in everything she's done' among a couple other things).

At the time I don't think Hemlock realized that Egg had ceased to function as a badger. All she saw was a Badger, however broken. All she saw was a monster that could've, if left unattended, killed and ate someone she cared about.

So for me it's hard to ascribe the black and white of it being definitively wrong. The 'right' thing to have done may well have been to kill her quickly.

That said I will agree that, whatever her core aim was, she should've have let it drag out like that.

The other stuff was just predictions based on characters I've seen or read about with characters similar to Hemlock. They really weren't meant to reflect on her and I could be (and hope I am) extremely wrong about them.

The thing is, if she had just killed Egg--even with others watching--that would have been fine. It'd have been brutal but they live in a brutal world. Even Oren had to kill a bear to secure where they live now. There's nothing wrong in killing for defense. What's wrong is what Twig refers to as "using the suffering of another to lick a wound when the real problem is the thorn". It's what came after they initially broke Egg. It's not a good thing to seek revenge or to gain blood lust.

Aaaah. Okay I get you now.

Yes I can agree, that was too much.

At times, readers forget that they see the picture much more fully and from the outside, and for the characters, many facts and things are not obvious, doubtful or seem false. I noticed the readers' tendency in the comments to quickly make judgments, based on outbursts of emotions and feelings for the main character. I can’t blame them, but I think that emotional perception prevents a full assessment of what is happening.

This. Heh, Far better put than I could have. Wish I could fave comments.

I wanna say folks are taking this comic to seriously, but I feel that would be a disservice to the writing and artistic talent on display. The fact that the reactions are so volatile means that a great job has been done making these characters more than just lines on the paper. People care about them.

If reactions weren't strong, either there aren't enough readers or the writing isn't damn good.

In my personal opinion, at the very least the story being told is damn good. And it's a damn shame I'm too broke to support on Patreon.

I gotta be real I haven't gotten this invested in a comic book character before. Ever.

<3

man i hope those marks don't scar ;.=.;
"turn it into a fish" yeah... Egg lost a bit it seems =(

Hemlock seems to be more than a simple villain. She probably has a complicated past or saw some shit. This is the sort of villain I can sympathize with, actually, because everybody can be good at first, but it's not easy to stay good. And blind vengeance and hatred is so easy to fall victim to...

Same reason I'm fond of her, that and I get serious mama bear vibes from her.

My suspicion is that she trusted a predator in the past and was betrayed. The best villains are always the ones that are sympathetic. It makes it more powerful when you can connect with one.

Did you miss half the point of the comic? Predation is still a natural part of things in this world. She almost certainly has only ever experienced predators as the things that come to kill and eat herbivores like her.

She won't have ever trusted one because she's never had a reason to, the very idea would be alien to her.

Pretty much every herbivore would have experienced this as well. So far the only one we've seen like her is her which implies something really messed up happened to her.

Hemlock is the villain the colony needs. Willingly accepting this sort of hate, do the ugly things needed in order to preserve the colony from the ever present danger. Without Hemlock, the colony will be destroyed. #TeamHemlock

No. Nothing good ever comes of hate. Only more hate, more pain, more suffering. It will start with actual predators like Rask and Egg and then go to folks like Twig because they sometimes eat meat and then after that it will be anyone that protests or thinks or acts differently because they are clearly a danger. Hate always eats itself. Always.

Oh, I see, they mentally damaged her.

Egg seems so sweet and adorable. I like her

well----i'll have to be that guy.
I LOVE THIS COMIC. character designs and emotions are perfect, there is a real story here. BUT.....i know how this story ends. PLEASE, UNDERSTAND, I DON'T HATE THE COMIC, NOR AM I POOPING ON IT. actually, this is one great comic. but, i've seen enough farthingwood animals, watership down and similar stories, i just know how this will end. it's one of two scenarios.

one, hemlock is saved by egg, who dies, showing hemlock that not all predators are evil.
two, hemlock actually goes insane with fear, and goes on a rampage that ends on some characters' deaths, and her redemption, which will be too little, too late. and given the dramatic sense of the story.....both scenarios are very possible.

i won't continue watching the comic, I DO INVITE EVERYONE TO CONTINUE READING IT. I MEAN IT. it's just that....i don't need sad stories in my life at this moment. and yes, i know this one will be a colossal tearjerker. and i know exactly who will be the source of such tears. i had this terrible experience with another comic, basically, one of its character was forcedly turned evil, just cus the plot needed a villain. I AM NOT SAYING THIS COMIC IS DOING THAT. hemlock has been already established as an antagonist character. and egg, yeah, poor badger has all the indications to be a goner. and i just don't think i am ready to see such a lovely character go, anime has already taken many characters i like, for the same of drama.

again, i am not saying i hate this comic, if that was the case, i wouldn't be writing this long comment. i love it. but, i am just not ready for its obvious outcome.

HOPE EVERYONE ENJOYS THE COMIC. it is an amazing piece of work, the author is doing a great job, but. yeah. maybe i am not ready for its tone.

have fun as i did, everybody :)

If it makes you feel any better, your assumptions about how this story will go are very off base. Thanks for reading what you did, tho!

great. glad to know you are not using tropes most writers use. kudos.

Hemlock is a reichstag fire just waiting to burn. No matter how bent and broken life has made her she is clearly having not one drop of pity and if she has to burn a forest, or a forest of eggs to prove her point she would gladly BE the match.

Some folks simply are bad period. Tragic backstory or cosmic angst they simply are past any redemption and are nothing more then a unstable bomb looking for any reason to go off. She has to be taken out cleanly, but not to simply set her off, or worse, make MORE of her.

I don't like Hemlock, but I don't want to see her die. I want to know what happened to her to try to understand why she is the way she is, and hopefully, she'll find some redemption

Given what she's said I suspect that at some point she trusted a predator with the safety of not just herself but close family and was betrayed.

These characters feel very real & I appreciate that they each seem to have their own way of coming to the conclusions & perspectives they do about things. Sometimes it can take a sobering situation in order to see that kind of clarity. I think that sort of thing brings a lot of humanity into these guys. I hope we'll get to eventually see what brought Hemlock to the hill they clearly don't seem to mind dying on, haha. I think it will be really interesting to learn what keeps those twisted truths so well rooted.

Being honest if anyone causes this place of "peace" to fail, it's probably going to be her.

I honestly can't hate Hemlock without knowing what happened to her. I feel like she has a genuine reason for her hate. Maybe her mate and offspring were wiped out by predators? Who knows? I just don't think hate is the right word here for Hemlock. We're all judging her so quickly before understanding what happened to her.

She still could be a soul worth saving.

Also, it really does break my heart to know that Egg constantly wears a smile to mask her pain but at the same time she looks like she doesn't allow it to haunt her or let it win and weigh her down. She's honestly a very inspirational character.

You cant look at this from -your- pov. Because you're a reader. Seeing this world from a safe bird's eye view. You've seen things the other characters haven't, Know Rask is a good person, know his struggles and inner thoughts etc.

Hemlock doesnt. And THATS the point of view you need to see this from. She sees another predator just like the many that have eaten them for millennia with complete cruelty and indifference. Plus whatever unknown personal trauma she seems to have that serves as kindling to the fire.

Honestly kinnda unnerved by the amount of hatred she's getting here. Ppl saying they "hope she dies" etc. Like.... holy heck y'all.

I can’t agree with this more. People just see these two predators with rose colored glasses and sympathy. But keep forgetting they’re still predators who have killed and ate other sentient beings with no remorse. Hemlock rightfully sees them as that (dangerous predators) and has no reason to trust them but every reason not to.

I've had a thought for a while. Honestly if you compare the comments on Oren's Forge here on FA to the other various sites it is posted to, Hemlock gets much, much, MUCH more vitriol hate here than anywhere else. And as much as I love the fandom, I have been in it for long enough to see patterns and I'd venture a guess that some of this absolute animosity might be aligned with the fact Hemlock is female. I can imagine there would be more sympathy for a male character. I hate to say it, but. That's my guess. I'm a woman who has been a furry for almost 20 years now. It is a very real issue in our fandom's culture.

Yes, it is curious, here compared to other sites... I don't know if there's some unconscious bias going on or if people are just way, WAY more vocal on FA. Either way, I wasn't expecting so many graphic descriptions of how people would kill her here, page after page. :S

That hadn't even occurred to me... but fuck, you have a point, that is a very definite trend I've picked up on at times as well...

I couldn't disagree more. The hate started to get excessive only when Hemlock was revealed to have been the ringleader behind the assault on Egg. In fact I think Hemlock wouldn't be the only one receiving death threats if she were male depicted as bashing a female's face in with a rock and getting away with it... >_>

I hope tea hasn't gotten any hate mail over this. It's definitely controversial but that just makes it more interesting to me.

I guess we'll have to disagree then! The fact that FA is the place she is getting /so/ much more hate and the absolute fact that the fandom has issues with this in other aspects of our culture... not to mention when a male wolf was trying to maul and eat Rask and the comments were along the lines of people hoping they'd become friends or ~more~.... well, the proof is just in the pudding, my friend.

I'm going to chime in, just to put it in perspective -- Hemlock isn't necessarily a likable character right now, obviously, BUT...
It's ONLY been on FA that she receives intense, violent hatred, and it started before the reveal about Egg. On DA, Tapas, and everywhere else I post to, the comments are more "I sure don't like that rabbit," where as here, predominately on FA, is it along the lines of "I hope she dies slowly, I'd crush her skull then piss on her body, etc." It's enough that while I used to read every comment, I've started skipping anything that has to do with Hemlock here because the vitriol is intense enough that it makes me, as a woman, feel uncomfortable.

The fandom has an unfortunate history of misogyny. I think for the most part it's an unconscious bias in some, not necessarily a malicious, raging hatred of women (though examples of that are not hard to find on this site). I feel very confident that had Hemlock been male, a lot more people here would be rooting for redemption over execution. Hemlock's dark anger would be sexy and mysterious, not disgusting and scary.

It's all food for thought, of course, but I'm basing this on having read all comments across all platforms, my personal experiences of 15 years in the fandom, and listening to other women and authors' experiences here. It sure seems like female characters get crueler treatment from fans. :(

The question is..., can she see that she’s becoming no different (potentially worse) than predators she hates & distrusts. Part of me seems to be pitying Hemlock, while the other side...

I just.., I fear Hemlock will meet a sad end of the road.

You did catch the predation thing that's a major part of the setting right?

To Hemlock it's kill or be killed, all she has ever known is predators killing and eating prey and she's firmly in the prey end of that spectrum. She's not going to calm down and accept the presence of two predators in her warren just like that.

To say that I’m really beginning to hate bunny Hemlock, is an understatement.

Her pain and loss has totally consumed her. I fear others in her strike range could be next.

Egg is a girl!? I think I just overlooked some important detail here...