damn that would be good n maybe a back pack to carry more metal n a new gun

I think a lot of people have this idea (myself included), though it's the first time I've seen it visualized

mount it on a segway

I think this design may be a slight folly; The Heavy could do the exact same job as well.

Please read the link.

Actually human control can be better in many situations over CPU control. One tactic to destroy sentry guns is to have a bonked scout distract it. A human player would know enough to leave the bonked scout alone until it wore off and attack the actual threat first.

Erecting a DICK

thats actually a pretty cool idea for a engie update.Instead of having to plant the sentry and rebuild it you can just have a set up time and a pack up time,aswell as a possibly speed reducer when pushing sentry gun.

that's all addressed in the link I posted.

It's a pretty interesting idea, though I think it kind of suffers the same sort of problem that regular sentries have: you still have to inherently babysit it for it to be moderately effective. With a mobile sentry you wouldn't be apt to turtle it like a level 3, but you'd still have to hang around it to move it when it comes under fire or when you have to move it to a new spot. Plus it leaves the Engie even more vulnerable than usual, since he wouldn't have the protection of the gun firing or likely be near the usual farm with a dispenser.

However, this could be really useful on Payload maps or ones with constantly changing 5 point CP maps where the "front lines" are often shifting in position. That would be the serious strength of it and where I could see this being quite handy, so if you build in a bad spot or the cart moves forward/back you can just move shop to a new locale where it would be effective. I'm not sure how useful it would be for a more offense oriented Engie though. I mean, you could build it when in a safe spot then wheel it forward with you, but with a low amount of HP it's not going to survive terribly long. If it had a really snappy build time it might work better on offense though, so you could wheel one out, it blows up, and then you build up another one quickly thereafter. Might be fun for ambushes too, sneaky level 1's can often be effective in corners and places where people aren't expecting.

Maybe if this was paired with a similar sort of less powerful but mobile Dispenser it could be a fun unlock. Makes me think of the Engineer daisy chaining movable objects together to get a buildables train going XD

Overall it could be a fun sentry to toy around with, but I'm not sure if it'd really be too effective in game, but with concept ideas that's always hard to fully judge. Regardless, I'm impressed with the detail you put into your idea and the creativity behind it.

Yeah, I'm thinking of reducing the cost even further, so it's not such a problem if it gets destroyed. The main ideas behind it are for situations where the front line shifts quickly, like in payload maps. I also think it'd be good for harassment, where an engie wants to do some good offensive damage, he can place it next to an enemy heavy area, pull off a few kills, and retreat to safety to wait for another opportunity.

If nothing else, might be worth implementing just for the hilarity of like 4+ Engineers suddenly charging over a hill towards the enemy pushing their sentries and throwing them down in an instant firing line.

Hmm, you just got me thinking. A good pair for this sentry gun would be a personal healing pack for the engie. It would strap to his back and heal him, or just raise his health to 150. Or it could be a one time use shield that would take damage for him, then be useless. You could still set up a dispenser, but this would take care of all the healing for the engie as he moves his stuff.

The problem there is that it just sorta goes back to the problem of the turtle Engie who doesn't help out the team, plus it encroaches on the territory of the Medic a bit with the self healing.

true. Maybe a huge way to offset that turtling is to make it a one time use thing or that when it's activated, you can't attack, but you can still grab your sentry and move it.

Not to mention, there are times when you need a medic and nobody's playing him. Another area where an engie comes in handy, because he's the only other char that can help heal teammates with his buildings.

Personally, I think the engie should get a security-camera-upgrade instead of a new weapon... the ability to build a point-mounted motion-detection sweep camera that could be upgraded to heat-sensors to actually detect invisible spies would help a TON in babysitting an existing choke point.

I love the design, though!

If it heals, Why don't you eliminate that hidden ability of healing and make it attached with a level 1/4(quarter) despenser?
THEN that'll give a better meaning of Stop N' Go name, it refills but never so quick, instead of 40 bullets for heavy, it gives 10 only, and it's quarter the rate of the level one despenser in healing, and gives out only 10 metal.... THAT would make me think there will be ALOT of Engies, but hey, there were alot of soldiers and demos back there~
As for not getting damage while moving is not doing justice to anyone if there's no speed penalty buuuuut, you could make it the Engy's tank! especially from sudden crits from front, the Sentry takes damage for Engineer... except from behind or else spies will never backstab XD

That's exactly what it means. The sentry cannot be harmed while the engie is moving it, but the engie takes damage normally.

hmmm I'm thinking of a way they could instead of Destroying their sentry to only build it, that idea allows it to be moved to where it would be needed, so I think this would be a nice update

That would be awesome!

I think the healing is a bit much. If there's a potentially mobile dispenser then it would be overkill....or overheal.

Anyway, I think it should simply block shots for the engie in question. He could duck behind it for some crouching action. In fact a shield front would be a really cool feature making the front of the sentry more resilient but with otherwise much lower health. Explosions would still have plenty of opportunity to take it out (2 rockets of splash instead of 4) but anythign to the front of it would be useless. Weaker firing as stated, and I think it's a winner. Engie could then be an incredibly viable offensive class by also being able to provide front line defense.

I also think a backpack dispenser would be a cool idea, but I don't know in what ways to make it weaker. Provide less points of metal on each re-stock, maybe heal slower, and NOT heal the engie holding it, requiring cooperation to make it useful, or heal the engie as slowly or even a little slower than a medic heals themselves. He could probably have a control to pick it up or sit it down, as it should slow him down a little. Maybe take away the teleports since you've turned the engie into a mobile arsenal and use the space for the PDA to select which one you wish to actively control/build. I can imagine left/right click (or trigger) control for both would be a bit inconvenient, though perhaps have pick up and sit down dedicated to each button and require proximity to pick them up.

I'm not nerdy enough to know game numbers for stats but these sound like good ideas to me. You turn the engie into a one man swat team with a backpack that makes him an ammo medic.

The healing doesn't turn it into a mobile dispenser. A level one dispenser heals ten hp every second. The mobile sentry only heals 3 hp a second, and it only heals the engineer who's holding it. No one else. it's just a small buffer against the damage you might receive while unable to shoot.

I understand that, but I don't really like the idea of the sentry gun healing him. Like I said, bullet deflection sounds like a better system to me. I'd prefer to see the sentry block damage rather than simply heal it. It's obviously not enough healing to contradict anyone with enough common sense to shoot more than once, but I'd prefer to see that sort of thing come from a mobile dispenser used in conjunction.

I likes :) Maybe also have something the Engy can build that feeds health/metal to other sentries/dispensers/teles near by, like an auto-engy or something? Or maybe a spy checking machine, sense NOONE EVER SPYCHECKS FOR US ENGIES ANYMORE >:C

~N~

here here! I second this comment! Where are the spy checkers? I usually end up having to do my spy checking myself, so sometimes I seem to be a rather paranoid engie.

Ooo.. think maybe one of the other new weapons could be a close-range spy-checking device that hurts them (like a flame throw, but much smaller, or maybe even detects them by just sounding beeps when a cloaked one is near (think that radar thing that Ripley used in Alien 1, but it would only detect spies)

~N~

no, I can't, because they always run away to die at the front lines or don't stick around to spy check.

The whole point of this unlock is to give the engie the flexibility to be a frontline fighter, so if the pyros are always on the front line, use this sentry and you can mbe right up there with them.

As an avid TF2 player, a TF2 community admin and a semi-career Engy, I think that's a good idea you have there. After reading what you put on Steamforums, I assume that despite the sentry not taking damage and healing the Engy 3hp/s, the Engy himself can still be shot and killed. What happens if he gets killed while moving this sentry?

I haven't really thought about that. Either the sentry deploys itself or it explodes. What do you think should happen?

I would assume that after the engie's killed, the sentry falls over useless, like what happens when the engie's carrying a toolbox and is killed. It would be a moment he's completely defenseless.

Well, the same possibility goes with unused tool boxes that were to be a sentry, dispenser, or teleporter. They hit the ground when the engie's dead and are useless. They can't be picked back up again, and just disappear after a while.

Hmm, never thought about it. Maybe what could happen is it auto-deploys. But consider the fact that when you are killed while holding it, it would most likely take damaged or be destroyed at the same time. Maybe what could happen while you are carrying it is it adds to your defense, like a temp shield forms from it instead of healing. It just adds a temp health increase which is the health of the sentry. If you take so much damage, it the sentry is destroyed or damaged so when you deploy it, you have to repair it.

I think the mobile sentry having to consider that it just lost it's "carry host", takes an additional 1-2 seconds to the already established time to deploy, giving it a chance to survive, but not much of one before the enemy has a rather lengthy time to fire off some more rockets at it.

~N~

Either it could, as suggested by others, explode and just become metal.

Or it could simply fall down like any other physics prop then perform a type of auto-destruct. For example, fire half its magazine into random directions then explode with roughly a demo-sticky worth's of damage.

*plays tf2 alot* damn that's a good idea

I'd be good for it IF knockback could knock it down - a pyro rushing it from behind and axing it so all its mass suddenly falls over the wheel's center of gravity...

As an avid engie user, I can think of a few things for this mobile sentry or to pair with it. One would be a further firing and reacting range. There's been times when a sniper, demoman, or soldier, or some other player standing just right outside the sentry's reaction range destroys it. Either because it's only a level one and obviously can't be upgraded (or if it is upgraded becomes stationary) it's not going to last very long and be destroyed before you have a chance to move it up. So either give it a way to start hurting people before they destroy it, or maybe give the engineer something to help damage them before they get too close to the sentry and destroy it. I've seen pyros do this and even done this myself before and was able to zoom in, toast the sentry and engineer with my flamethrower, all because I could get in close enough without being killed. To be honest, I've very rarely gotten kills with a level one sentry. I've even tried hiding level ones, and they either get sapped before they can do damage, or after the first kill, get torched or sapped.

The question is, would these mobile ones be set down and forget until you move in, or are you going to actually baby the thing? If you're going to stand by it and help protect it while shooting at people, thus you and the sentry are getting the kills, I have a rifle idea I had submitted that might be of use.

http://forums.steampowered.com/foru......php?t=1076692

Comments would be welcome.

I think your rifle would make a great other weapon for the mobile sentry, finally making the engy to be an equally feared team mate on the offensive instead of just always being defense. :J

Totally second this idea :D

~N~

How bout instead of it being less range, is just has a narrow 45 degree radius it normally sweeps, and can only rotate 90 degrees, making it very limited in positioning to be useful?

~N~

Actually, when I'm Engy, I tend to trap myself into corners with a desp on one side, a teleporter to the other, and a sentry right infront of me. Hard for spies to get to my back, allowing me to have that SMG out. I can also make repairs where needed. I dont get many kills, but I guard my tele-exits fiercely. :3

Now if there was a device that would auto-heal them, I could be more offense, but I cant see Engy's being really offense to sucessfully unless you already have a rather powerful force to keep a spot clear enough to pop an exit for your members to get out when they get slaughtered (ironically enough, while trying to make a spot for them to come back to after death).

~N~

Ohh :o Cant say I really remember an Engy storming in solo with a L1 Sentry anywhere, but then again, I normally stuck to the 100% Crit servers on OrangeX3. Where'd it go anyways?

~N~

See, exactly why my rifle would be perfect. All too often I'm constantly repairing my stuff because JUST out of range is a sniper, soldier, or demo trying to destroy my stuff. And I can't kill him because my guns are too inaccurate, and none of my team with the weaponry to kill them do anything about it.

The one thing I've had to face is that there are some maps that are NOT sentry friendly. That no matter what, there are no good places to put sentries because if you try setting up, you're just begging to be killed.

As for the mobile sentry, a tactic that should be avoided is "set and forget" because you just need a good spy to come along and sap it. And what happens? You just wasted all that time and metal to set up something that doesn't even fire a shot.

Well, you forget the purpouse for the engineer as well. The Engineer's defense. He stands back and protects. I've noticed that most teams tend to leave the engies back to guard and then rush forward to die in droves. In fact, I'm good at staying back and being a guard dog. I can name a number of maps where that's exactly what I do. I stay back, protect the area and keep the enemy from pushing forward while the rest of my team attacks. Heck, the most kills I've gotten is from doing exactly that. But the rifle is to help the engie protect his own stuff.

There's times when you need to hit someone who's just outside your personal firing range and want the accuracy to count. The shotgun's great for killing poeple who get in your face and fight, but if the sentry's gonna be a level one, portable and doing that for you, why do you need the short range shotgun anymore?

Besides, say you are in a position that you need someone who can fire far away with good accuracy and the players who can do that are either dead, or busy. If you are CONSTANTLY relying on them to bail you out of a tough spot, you may as well just give yourself something that could help you a bit in that situation.

Take the cart race map. Whole team usually goes ahead and pushes the cart, leaving the engies back at base to defend. Medics, snipers, pyros, soldiers, demomen, and even spies have accurate long range weapons. The only ones with a long range weapon with poor accuracy is the scout and Heavy now The engie can't compete. Are you saying pull some players from pushing the cart to defend the base so the enemies can't destroy your defenses while your teammates are gone?

Heck, with a spy or sniper, one shot you are dead and then your stuff gets destroyed because nobody can repair it but YOU. There are numerous times that there's only one engie, or if there's more, the other guys simply can't save your things because they would risk losing their own as well.

Did I say I wanted to out-damaged them? No. I just said I want a gun that does better accuracy. Look at my rifle again. It has equal damage to what the shotgun does now. Only difference is, it's got poor close range damage, and damage increases as it flies until the damage levels off at the shotgun's damage level. That's what it would do mid-long range and to long range. Another big downside it would have is only 5 shots to the shotgun's 6. And a lot of times when a spy attacks, engies spy check with their wrench or kill him with the wrench.

See, what weapons I have sometimes depends on the map. If it's a long map with huge open spaces, I'd go for the rifle over the shotgun. If it's a map with tight spaces and a lot of enclosures, I'd go for the shotgun. I do the same kind of weapon switches with the Pyro and Heavy. I rarely use the other characters, so I've yet to find out what I'd use in those situations.

And you contradict yourself in your first statements. You say he doesn't need help, but then you say if he didn't need help, he'd be the perfect class. As for already being a perfect class, he's not, and trust me, in 2fort all it takes in some spots is a good demo to wipe him and his things out, or even a good spy.

The main reason for the rifle anyway is to help him protect an area and more accurately hit someone just out of range of your shotgun. The pistol's too weak to really do any great damage to someone like a soldier or a demo. Especially with how the soldier's now WANT to be hurt so they can zoom in with the equalizer.

1. I have encountered soldiers before and killed them with the shotgun, a rifle that does the same damage as the shotgun would not be a stretch.
2. No, read the page on the gun. It's a Lever-action rifle, also known as a 30/30. Well used by John Wayne in one of his westerns as Rooster Codburn. There was a version with a wider cocking bar that you could cock by flipping the gun around. Rooster did this in the movie.
3. The engineer's not a perfect class if he can easily get wiped out before he's even set up. He needs a better gun that at least increases his chances in personal combat, especially if he's gonna be more offensive.
4. I emptied all six shots into a soldier then was emptying clips from the pistol into him, and still got killed when he charged after me with the Equalizer. The soldier only have half health. Soldiers have taken the Equalizer out much earlier than 40 HP. He had blown my stuff up with the rocket launcher first. Level 3 sentry, and level 3 dispenser, all gone. I was setting up a forward base in what I thought was a safe zone all by myself. Now if you have an answer to how I could have survived, I'd like to hear it unless it's that I should have someone more combat oriented to hold my hand and protect me at all times.

Okay, for one thing, insulting is not needing for this. Keep it up and I'm going to ignore any further post you make.

For another thing, I NEVER said the Engineer should be a perfect class. NEVER! As for the game, I'm a DAMN good engineer. My highest kill count has been as an engineer. I've had other people tell me "You're a damn good engie."
My point is, you can't ALWAYS count on your team to cover your ass. I know that each class has a specific role in the team and counter and balance one another. But every character should be able to defend himself to some degree against opposition.

I'm just saying that there are moments when I HATE playing the engie because he feels too weak, or there is a distinct lack of teamwork and thus the Engie can't reliably do his job, which is support the rest of the team. The rifle doesn't change his job much. It's to enable him to be a more offensive engineer.

And one area the engie is the weakest and where he needs some improvement is when he's moving his gear up or making an advanced base to support his team.

He's not the fastest so he can't run away from trouble. He's not the strongest so he can't just kill whatever gets in his way. I'm saying he needs personal weaponry that can allow him to run into the fray WITH his team and not be the first to be blown to pieces before he even has a chance to be build anything and actually HELP his team. You see a soldier or demo charging at you, boom rocket or pipe blows you to pieces because your shotgun hits them too weakly. And that's all because the shotgun's range is for close to medium range, and it's his primary weapon for dealing with these mean mother-hubards. To put it bluntly, the shotgun's great in some situations, but not in wide open spaces where you need to hit someone who's out of your shotgun's range with a gun that has more stopping power than the pathetic pistol. It's why I wish the engie had a gun with the shotgun's power, but had more accuracy and greater range. Hell, even giving him a shotgun with fewer slugs and a tighter spread for the shotgun blast would be better.

That doesn't make sense. The range limit on the normal sentry is designed to give opposing players a chance to kill a sentry from afar. The mobile sentry is supposed to be used for harassment, meaning pick it up, put it down, let it kill a little bit, pick it up, move it somewhere else, lather, rinse, repeat. It wouldn't be very good at that job if the moment you put it down some distant soldier could just destroy it with out coming into damage range. I'll concede the idea that the sentry is still vulnerable to spies, but that's as it should be.

After seeing all these good ideas, would it be to far to say mix them? A mobile sentry that doesn't shoot when transported, but heals the engy who cant fire while he's running it to a new deploy spot. If the engy is killed during transport, it "falls over", where it can defend itself for [#] of seconds before it runs out of "battery power" and "dies", leaving just a bit of metal/ammo behind like normal unless another engy can grab it, where it now belongs to him (he transfered the mobile sentry in his slot to the other engy who died, thereby switching them completely). While deployed, it could feed metal/ammo to other sentry's and the original mobile sentry's engineer, though perhaps not others (making actual despensers better for other players, just less better for engies; almost requiring others to be engy to be useful).

Or would that make them just to powerful?

~N~

Okay, that's not a bad idea. So any Engy can grab it and deploy it, but it stays as the original Engy's. So if someone grabs it and just keeps running with it, the original Engy either has to detonate it (lol, possible kamakazi last resort?) to rebuild it, or just cant build another one till he finds it?

~N~

And other engies can only pick it up while the original engie is dead. Once the original engie respawns, the engie rolling the sentry can no longer pick it up after he's deployed it.

Might as well just let people run around with aim bot.

The idea was that it wouldn't fire while moving. Exactly the way they made it for the current sentries.

So essentially a mini sentry with a 0 second setup time when you move it?

No, more like a level 2 sentry with a normal setup time. You have to realize, I posted this idea over three years ago, back when you couldn't move sentries.

Oh that would make a lot more sense then.