The much anticipated finale (for now) of this fun little trilogy getting to know Chandra. On a lonely road, a little trading band will meet a beast no traveller ever hopes to encounter, huge, scaly, and eager to carry them off to her lair...
Originally I was going to call it The Inn: Chandra, but that seemed too obvious.
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“Damn” Ralph exclaimed, not for the first time that day, a turn in the road revealing, just more road. Admittedly road was a kind word, it was more a beaten track. Wide enough for carts, not that they had one, not anymore.
“Relax… we already knew it was likely to take two days to get there” Liza, his companion gave the frustrated man a nudge, moving to a tree by the road. Forest surrounded them, she noted bitterly. She hated camping in forests… she felt so, surrounded “maybe it’s time to call it quits for the night… we’re all tired”
Ralph spat to the road, but offered no objection, so she waved down their… bodyguard turned pack mule. The mercenary went by Rick. He was a professional, that was all she cared about. They didn’t like him, he didn’t care about them, only the coins they paid him. It was purely business. He helped them feel safe at night, their travelling gave him job security. Or it had. He was more quiet than normal, which wasn’t saying much. He knew well enough they’d be, ending his service at the next village. She would have worried about him robbing them now that the job was over, if they had anything worth taking. Oddly convenient really. They couldn’t afford to keep him, but that also meant they didn’t have anything worth taking if he was annoyed.
Their packs at least, weren’t that heavy these days… though that was decidedly bittersweet. Rick set to putting up their sole tent… for the sake of fairness, it was spread between a cluster of trees, forming a roof of sorts they could all sleep beneath. She took the time to approach Ralph, rolling her hands over his shoulders, taking off his pack and stroking along his exposed back “relax, we get there tomorrow, we sell what we can. It’ll be rough going for a while, but we’re canny enough to make it”
“Yeah…” he sighed, leaning into her attention “I guess travelling with just you and me might… have its perks, at least, hmm?”
She gave him a shove, chuckling “you wish”
“Oh, just wishing, am I?” he turned his head, some of his playful side finally back on his face “you forget how we met, milady…”
She rolled her eyes “oh, the irony of fate… you had more chance of getting lucky as a customer than as my companion…”
He shook his head, scooping up his pack “ah well… I got some dried meat from the last village. Gods knows what it is… but it looked fresh. Nice and salty too”
She sighed, considering how divine that sounded, just a few delicious chunks strewn amid the meagre stew they’d manage tonight, spreading a wealth of flavour amid the gloop… “I won’t ask what you paid for it”
She sorted their bags, helping Rick lay out the thick cloth they used for bedding, frowning how the moss of the forest was already creating wet patches. Meanwhile, Ralph was preparing their dinner, the bubbling water a pleasant sound amid the eerie quiet of the trees. A few tubers laid out beside the fire, ready to be chopped. He scattered a few herbs he had gathered from around them into the water, filing their little corner of the woods with an earthy, aromatic hint amid the grimy smell of the wild.
Lisa sighed, sitting down on the driest patch of the sheet she could find, resting her feet. It wasn’t much, but, the little luxuries were divine.
The serene moment, carved into the hassle of the day, didn’t last long. She was just contemplating getting up, being still putting a chill into her, when a new sound began to echo, deep and ominous through the air around them… it was, a thump, it was, routine, getting louder. She’d never heard anything like it before… but, there was one option that sprung to mind. Ralph clearly had thought of it too. In a moment his hands were on the pot, turning it over, boiling water dousing the fire in a cloud of steam, his ingredients thrown hastily into the pan before it was thrust in his bag, her companion joining her under the tree cover. Travellers were always told, to beware thuds, distant and high… for it could be dragon wings… She grabbed up what she could, stuffing it into her bag, in case they had to run, or move deeper into the trees, but, for the moment, they stayed still, very still… The best option was it wasn’t a dragon… second best, that it didn’t see them, or smell them, or know they were there. So, they stayed cautious and still, as the beating sound got closer, and stopped.
The trees creaked around her as a weight hit the tent above, snapping the cords holding it to the tree, the weight… the, grasping weight coming down upon her, surrounding her entirely in the tent as she screamed, pushing out and feeling… the grip tighten, it felt like digits... thick and heavy, they scooped her up, the tent bagging her. Outside she heard the other two crying out, but their voices didn’t grow distant, or ebb… even as seconds passed… she had to assume it had grabbed them too… Suddenly the grip scooped beneath her body, and a surge jolted her, the beating sound resuming, but even closer. She cursed her luck, and curled up in a ball, her bag digging into her chest as she was held in the talons of the beast… so much for a nice dinner… now they’d get to be meaty chunks in this dragon’s diet… greedy thing, she could feel it straining to carry them… something in the beating sounded so, laboured. But she didn’t dare fight anymore… falling to her death, alone, sounded even worse…
She wasn’t sure how long they flew for; the shock of the whole event was messing with her head… she was getting claustrophobic in the dark of her cloth prison. But, she noticed when the wingbeats seemed to, change… they became rapid, and sharp, before she felt the pressure of the talons release, moments before her back hit the ground, slightly padded through the sheets, but wherever she landed was hard… she could tell that much. She pushed out around herself, shaking off the cloth, her panic rising with the frightening anticipation of the end. Her mood not helped by the thuds that surged through the ground beneath her… she guessed the dragon had landed.
Finally, Lisa pushed free of the cloth, finding herself in a cavern, or a tunnel. It went deep, she couldn’t see an end. The other direction was more daunting through. She could only make out a dark shape of dragon, the setting sun behind the beast. But one glance and she was backing away. The unknown of the cave at least offered a delay. To her left and right were her companions, their bags laying by their feet, they seemed to be having the same idea as her. Forgetting her things, tossing her bag down she ran, Ralph and Rick overtaking her in their own flee. She could hear the dragon behind them… quick, heavy steps, then a stop, before it began coming after them again. She didn’t think of why, she had only one thought, getting away.
Deeper, she could just about make out the cavern widened, and, she saw light… it puzzled her, but, dragons breathed fire, if the legends were to be believed… Either way, curiosity was far from the forefront of her mind, although, as with her companions, it began to creep forward when they burst into the cavern space. It was, far from what she expected.
There were two things in the cavern she would have never expected to see… first, was a vast junkheap of very human items, and the other… was an Inn. For a cave there was a surprisingly cosy atmosphere. The cave was warm, the music of a single violin playing a soothing if lively tune drifting in the vast space. The Inn, for, that seemed to be what it was calling itself, was open on the ground floor, tables and chairs, a wooden floor, the tables spilling out onto the stone. There were seven or eight patrons sitting around… drinking, a surprisingly young man behind the bar, chatting with an energetic couple, the male of the pair laughed, he had quite the lungs… it echoed over the music. Lisa could see now, against the far wall of the little establishment was the bard, turning and prancing as he played his merry tune. Above the awning into the place, was a long, wide board, with the name scratched in, in… slightly wonky letters, “The Chandra Inn”.
The innkeeper seemed to excuse himself from his conversation, coming around the bar to approach them, offering a gracious bow “please, come, first drink is free at the Chandra Inn… relax, you look like you’ve seen a ghost, I…”
He paused, as the thud of dragon footsteps began to near them once more, and all the fear returned over curiosity. Yet, the Innkeeper waved his hands down “Now, now… relax, she’s not going to Hurt you… the dragoness is Chandra, please… come to the bar, sit, drink, first-timers always have questions… trust me, I know that very well”
“I think we died” Ralph muttered
“No” Lisa added “more likely the beast squeezed us too hard, this will be a suffocation driven hallucination”
Once more the Innkeeper bowed before them “I, am her humble servant, by the way, and your host for the evening, you may call me Leon, now please… you’ll have plenty of time to pinch yourselves after your drink”
Lisa and Ralph exchanged a look. Bereft of options, the surreal offer was tempting. The approaching thud of heavy paws helped the decision immensely. The Inn, was away from the approaching dragon. That was enough.
So, they followed Leon, into his establishment, shooting glances back over their shoulders, to see the beast. The dragon was huge… the largest animal any had beheld by a wide margin, gleaming in the firelight, scales a blazing red. She sat herself at the exit tunnel, concerningly blocking it.
“She’s carrying our bags” Ralph observed, his tone very, calm, it hadn’t sunk in, Lisa assumed. But she saw it now, amid the talons of a forepaw, she recognised the colours of their bags.
Once inside the Inn, if they didn’t look behind them, it could have been almost anywhere they had stopped on their travels. The other patrons seemed relaxed enough, it took the edge off their worries.
Close, the bar showed the inexperience of the one who had made it. Far from shoddy, but… rough. The lines weren’t quite straight, the curves weren’t smooth and flowing. A layer of polish promised to protect them from splinters, at least. Leon placed himself across from them as they sat, his exuberance warming them to him a bit.
“Right… house rules. Two drink maximum I’m afraid, first, our supply up here is… limited, secondly… tempting as it would be to get drunk out of your minds right now, it’s not really that wise to lose all your wits in a dragon’s den, sure you can appreciate that… also…” his smile flickered… a little more forced “well… too drunk and people start wandering off… just stay in the cave and you’ll be fine, I need you to remember that” He shrugged a shoulder “anyway, those rules are just for alcohol, and the first one is free. We have other things, the water we get up here is dragon-carried from the mountain peak, pure and clean as anything… I have some cordials… drinks are limited. You can get a good meal though, and a warm bed, free of charge”
Ralph drummed his fingers on the bar “look, you seem a nice kid, but… please, enough of the innkeeper lines, that’s really not what I want to know right now”
Leon sighed “I get it… drink first though, let me just get you some ale, huh? Easy and simple” he poured a drink for each of his three new guests, passing them to shaking hands before sitting himself “right… long story you can get from her, short version… Chandra likes humans, we fascinate her. So, you’re safe, really, she won’t eat you. Two rules, do not, touch her things” he gestured out, to the junkheap deeper into the cavern “and don’t attack her or any of her guests… those two rules will get you eaten. The deal here is simple” Leon gave them a wry smile “Every night, she goes flying, plucks up people like you off the roadside. Very innocent, here you get a nice warm meal, drink, a free room. Enjoy our little Inn in the mountains, with a bouncer nobody, no bandit no predator, nothing, will dare mess with, if she catches a bard, we get music. Much better than sleeping by the road… there is, of course, a price, you’ll be glad to hear”
Lisa cocked her head, sipping her drink… not bad “why should we be glad to hear that?”
Leon shot her a grin that disquieted her “I don’t know about you, but I feel safer around a dragoness, when I know what she gets out of the deal… wouldn’t being oblivious to that be very, scary?”
She nodded mutely, and he continued “As I said, she is interested in us. The price of all this, is entertaining her. Stories of your travels, or better yet, showing her something she hasn’t seen before, and telling her its purpose… how it’s made, anything. She laps it up like a starved puppy”
He gestured over behind them, and they looked… the dragoness had gotten closer, her muzzle right by the entrance. Glowing eyes watching them.
“When you feel ready, take a table near the edge, that’s the signal to her that you’re prepared to talk to her”
“What about leaving?” Ralph pressed
“On your own, inadvisable” Leon noted “come morning, she will gladly put you right back where she found you. Unless you want to stay longer… we’re mostly a one-night thing, if you wish to stay longer, you need to start giving her things. If she bores of you, she’ll just pluck you up whether you like it or not one morning, and put you back”
“How do you know she really returns people, hmm? Doesn’t just eat us behind the corner?”
He chuckled a bit “returning customers. Besides, I know her. She’s sweet…” he hesitated “for the record, if you see a bigger, purple dragoness… she is not your friend. That one, will eat you. So just stay, relax, you’re safe here, and tomorrow you can continue on your merry way”
Lisa sipped her drink again, it was warming, and her panic had burned itself out… she was almost feeling safe “hard to believe this is really happening… we really get all that, just for talking to a dragon?”
Leon shrugged “it’s not much… the beds are here, the food is largely things she catches, the drink, well… that’s little harder… but not too much. This is her hobby. Think about it… in terms of scale. Supporting an Inn isn’t that much effort for one as huge as she, and it makes her happy”
He leaned a bit closer, his voice lowering “and honestly… this is one of the less impactful ways for me to get her a human fix. I mean… come on, to her this is like cobbling together a shed and letting stray cats sleep in it while she feeds them… it’s not much weirder than anything humans do, just… looks bigger from our perspective”
Lisa leaned back, admittedly enjoying the warmth, the drink… the gentle atmosphere of the place… the music just about drowned out the deep and heavy breathing of their massive host, somewhere out of her view “I guess we lose nothing by trusting you at your word. If this… bizarre thing is true, we… got lucky, in a strange way. If it’s a lie… we’re as doomed as we thought when she was carrying us here, we just one more taste of the good life first”
Ralph groaned beside her, sighing heavily “yeah… guess it’s pretty easy to give you the benefit or the doubt when there’s nothing we can do if the worst case is true… all right, so, how about this warm meal you mentioned? We were just starting cooking when she got us”
A grin took Leon again “our speciality is steak. Not surprising seeing as an obligate carnivore brings in all our food, you’ll find little else but meat here, honestly… I’m working on that, but hey, it’s a bit of luxury on the road, right? I hear that a lot from our patrons”
Lisa glanced to Ralph, rolling her eyes… she could see he was sold from the word steak “yeah. Fresh meat spoils very quickly… needs to be dried, or salted, or smoked… it’ll make you sick too if it goes wrong. Fresh meat is… a luxury” She looked over this, Leon… he really was rather young “you sure that’s what we get?”
“Course” Leon waved the comment aside “she brings in a carcass as her meal, I cut what we need, I know our maximum patronage after all… if she can’t find that many, I throw the raw remains down her gullet after the rest of the beast” he looked behind himself “I’ve got things prepared in the kitchen already. We’re still, largely new. Chances are we might try and improve things if it keeps going well… we’re even talking about hiring staff... but… its complicated” Leon offered them a smile “anyway, stay at the bar, or find a table, or go see Chandra, I’ll find you when your food is ready” he nodded to Rick, who had been staying very quiet, before turning and moving through a back door, seemingly into a room carved into the stone.
Once the innkeeper had disappeared, Ralph and Lisa glanced to each other, before taking a moment to look around… there was cheerful conversation, card games being played. That bard was taking a break… seemed to be flirting with a younger girl sitting by herself. It was an odd group… they all seemed to have their own stories from the look of them.
“So, what do you think?” Lisa asked aloud, putting down her earthen mug
“I think we either go along with it or try to escape… escape past a dragon with only the clothes on our backs on some mountainside with no idea where to go… and with the threat of possibly two dragons, who of course know the area well, intent then on catching us for dinner”
“Go along with it, it is” Lisa agreed, though Rick on Ralph’s far side just grunted
They spared him a look, which he briefly returned “I don’t trust this… you can’t trust a dragon, they eat people, remember?”
“I do remember, it’s why I don’t want to piss this one off” Ralph noted testily
Rick rolled a shoulder “do what you want… way I see it, if this is all true, tomorrow you get dropped a short day’s walk from the town where you were leaving me anyway… I’ll decide whether to leave or stay on my own”
Lisa shrugged a shoulder. She didn’t much care whether they ended their little contract a day early, instead looking over to the settled beast. “maybe we should just throw ourselves into it… go say hello to this, Chandra… see if she seems as nice as he says”
Ralph grunted “I’d gladly stay my distance… but, if talking with her is payment for staying… I’m all for keeping her happy…”
Reluctance and nerves returned as they got to their feet, approaching a table, right before the settled head of the large reptile. This, Chandra, had her long-clawed forepaws settled, one upon the other, and her head laid upon both. Invariably her eyes were on they two as they got closer.
“Chandra… is it?” Ralph asked, his voice aiming for pleasant, but coming out very strained. The dragoness either ignored it, or didn’t notice, for she seemed to smile, a low, pleased grating sound coming from her throat.
“I am… and you two are?”
“I’m Lisa” Lisa spoke, sitting into a chair… hot breath gusting along her leg and side was, unsettling… as was watching the nostrils flare and contract… just being beside such a vast reptilian muzzle… even, if there was a beauty to it “He’s Ralph”
She nodded her head towards the inside “and your friend?”
“Rick… he is, not ready… He guards us on our travels… roads can be dangerous”
“They can? My Leon said so… as have others, but I still don’t quite understand…”
“Dragons for one” Ralph noted quietly, nearly choking on his drink when Chandra’s large glowing eyes swivelled to him an instant later
“I see… then he is fortunate I grabbed him before he could, attack… or he would have ridden…mmm, elsewhere”
“It might be why he’s staying over there” Lisa considered gently “We… Ralph and I, we try not to think about, the chance of encountering dragons. He probably has to consider it every day… meeting one he doesn’t need to risk his life fending off… might take a big mental adjustment”
The dragoness rolled a shoulder, losing interest in the absent human, her eyes flicking up and down the pair “you were my last collection of the night… many of the others are known to me… but you, are new… will you tell me why you were nesting by the walking route?”
They exchanged a look, and Ralph tipped his hand to Lisa, inviting her to tell it. She sighed “we, are merchants… traders. We buy and sell from place to place. We were travelling from one village to another. We haven’t come this way in a long time. Normally, we’d sleep on our cart, but we lost it last week. Actually, with the cart we often didn’t have to sleep by the road… normal Inns and such normally find a way of spacing themselves a good day’s travel by horse”
She paused, and Chandra hummed, seeming to consider “you speak, of something to do with the human, currency… Leon has tried to explain it to me before”
“Trading is pretty simple really. Some things are easy to acquire in some places, and hard in others. You trade or buy them where they’re easy to get, because the people there won’t want much in exchange. Then you take it somewhere it’s hard to find, where people will give a lot more to have it. It’s a reliable life if you don’t get yourself conned, get greedy, and are willing to risk the roads”
“Trick is to travel far” Ralph added “finding something new, is the real way to get rich. If it’s an obvious good investment, you’re competing with other traders for supply and demand, if it’s not obvious… you’re risking everything, with everything to lose and everything to gain”
“Let’s not go that deep” Lisa looked to her companion before looking back to the dragoness “but… that’s our story, really. We travel around, doing that for a living…”
Chandra nodded “then… you must see all sorts of amazing human things… and, trade them”
“I… suppose we must” Lisa replied “Not, that I know what you would consider amazing… I suppose we can show you what we have… you, picked up our bags, didn’t you?”
The dragoness’s head turned away, behind her settled forelimb, bringing the bags, hooked by her fangs, dropping them beside Ralph “I admit, I hoped you had been abandoning them, so I could have them… but Leon tells me humans normally don’t intend that when they run away and drop things…”
Ralph tugged the bad closer to himself, face briefly taken by revolted horror as his hand came away, slimy. He brushed his hand on his hip, shuddering a little.
“Ralph” Lisa prompted gently, her voice firm “we have some spices left, right? Why don’t we show some to the nice dragoness…”?
She shared his reluctance, but was relieved when he opened the bag. She fixed the dragoness with a little smile “spices are, something of a trader’s dream, I’d say. When you can find something new, it makes empires. These… are not new, but we invested in them early on, before we lost the cart. They’re easy to carry, for a high value”
“What are they?” Chandra mused, eyes drifting between the two, casually rolling back and forth, though intimidating to her, small guests
“They… flavour food” Lisa regretted showing the spices the moment she said it, food and eating was a topic to avoid, surely, but while the dragoness’s interest did seem, intent, at least she wasn’t licking her lips.
“Ah… the quirks of human food, may I try some? Would I even, taste it? I don’t want to, take it all if you need it”
They exchanged a look as Ralph held a small jar up, the spice bright and red in the glass “They are, strong, I’m sure a sprinkle we could spare...”
She couldn’t help it, Lisa hid her smirk behind a faint cough as her companion was suddenly presented by the vast jaws spreading wide, fat fleshy tongue rolling onto his lap. He squirmed, not a red fleck left anywhere on his face as he gazed into the dark fleshy abyss. The trembling of his hand perfectly shaking the little jar as the powder puffed the air before settling on the tongue
“Ok… that’s it, please… get your mouth away from me”
Chandra’s long muzzle withdrew, jaws sealing with a smooth click, an unsettlingly wet sound audible to her guests as so close to them the large tongue began to roll around in her maw, a soft pleased hum echoing in her throat
“I can actually taste it… so, unique… mmm, delicious…”
Ralph slid the jar back into the bag, quickly dragging out a coil of rope, seeming intent on redirecting the topic of conversation “and this… we have this we’re trading… do you know rope? It’s… um, used for tying things up, tightly, we weave plant fibres into this… long and sturdy… this is a particularly fine example, see how thin it is, not fat and clunky like some rope”
Chandra’s attention fell back onto the presentation “oh, it’s familiar, I see that a lot… I always thought it was some sort of vine. You mean to tell me humans make this?”
“We do… well, not us two, but people do” Ralph sighed, relaxing into the new line of conversation
“You said it’s very thin… why is that important?” Chandra mused “what do you need especially thin rope for?”
“Binding meat…” Lisa added a touch dismally, Ralph wincing before looking to the rope he was holding
“right… yes”
Lisa groaned, burying her head in her hands “what are you going to show her next Ralph? A frying pan? How about a skewer?”
The dragoness’s eyes were bright, she seemed perfectly excited by all the new words and things being described… oblivious to how the line of examples was depressing her little guests.
Lisa watched Ralph as he tucked the rope away, searching for something, anything in their bag that didn’t relate to food in any possible way. Deep down, she was starting to feel safe… she could see it now, the innocent curiosity in this vast beast… but as far as keeping their talk in nice, safe zones, they were doing very poorly.
Rick kept to the edge of the raucous Inn, eying his companions as they made small talk with the dragon… the head so close, he was sure they would be eaten soon enough… and if not, before they left. He had no wish to stand before the jaws of a beast who would lose not a moment’s sleep about eating them the moment she got hungry…
To his eye, this whole set-up made sense in a different sort of way… the dragoness was giving up her food to fatten up her next meal… keeping them penned in her den till she got, hungry… and of course she could just tell everyone her meal had finally decided to leave and go back to the outside world… never to be seen again. He was certain of that illusion, and that he saw through it. So, he bided his time, waiting till her lackey was well out of sight, and the dragoness was distracted half spreading her jaws around that Ralph. Then he moved, keeping well wide and in the shadows, he made his way around the vast settled beast. She’d gotten very close to her, Inn, now. Enough that most of the exit wasn’t blocked by her scaly rump anymore. Half of the tunnel was made impassable by a lethally swishing tail, but the far side… he could get through there. He had all he needed. Cloak on his back, blade at his hip… all he needed to do was get out, find a road, and with a road would come a new employer. An employer hopefully further away from being dragon food.
It took time, making his careful away around the rear end of the dragoness. The sweep of her tail cast blunt whips of wind at him, he couldn’t take his eyes off the hefty scaled tail, drifting back and forth. He’d heard of men being broken wrecks after the swipe of such a tail… though, maybe bigger than this one. Still, he had no wish to test it. It took time, but he got around the zone of danger with a straight path outside. He made good progress then, glancing back, watching for pursuit, but, the dragoness didn’t follow… must be distracted. Well, she could have her two new toys… she wouldn’t get him. He glanced ahead, the cave unfolding into the wide-open world. The surroundings were rocky and uneven, but his immediate path was clear, so he returned his gaze behind him. He half expected any moment that the ruby muzzle would poke out… getting away from her was a little too easy… was she so easily distracted he could just, sneak off? Well, he couldn’t complain. He turned to look ahead, just in time to see, a rock? He was sure nothing had been in his way, but he half ran into something hard. But it didn’t hurt… not like he’d expect stone to. It was smooth, and though firm, it… was just a little springy, just enough it cushioned the edge of his impact. He fell to his backside, dizzy, looking up. Two amethyst jewels gleamed in the night, a grating sound… like stone on stone except… not. It sounded alike, but didn’t sound like a mineral… there was a note to the sound, a deep one, a vocal one.
The muzzle lowered down, moonlight revealing the angle of the long, draconic jaw. He could barely make it out… this one was, huge… he must have mistaken her for rocks in his first glance… sitting still in the moonlit night. But how live she was had become strikingly clear.
The deep sound of her chuckle surrounded him, before, out of the gloom he saw a paw, long deadly talons. That shook off his daze. He tried to crawl back, but had to watch as two claws pinched at his leg, lifting him up high. From above he could see her more clearly… this must be that older one… so she was real.
“Aww… my sister’s little Inn did not entertain you?” the dragoness cooed, her voice melodic, ringing in both ears… it was hard to hear, or think about anything but her words as he hung before her snout “well, it is such a tame place… maybe you would prefer to stay somewhere more exciting, more, mature…”
Teeth shone, wet and savage as her jaws widened, a wall of slimy tongue slapping against his face as the hot slime was worked all over his chest and legs. He could feel a bounce now; the dragoness was carrying him away.
“I can promise you’ll find your new accommodations much more, engaging. Why… you just, won’t be able to bring yourself to leave”
The tongue rolled at him again, cutting off any reply he might have made, only this time he felt it curl, coiling around his back. The pressure at his leg released, but he didn’t fall… he only slid. His ears popped as the jaws shut, the pressure briefly intense, heat surrounding him entirely as he fought fiercely, managing to barely tickle the larger dragoness.
Zorian licked her lips, a leg poking through her lips, which she drew in with a slurp. Pondering what to do with this little runaway before, with a casual roll of her shoulder, tipping her head back, letting the weight of her tongue slide against her fangs, opening her throat wide for the valiant fighting human “mmm, of course, the warmth of your new home isn’t free like Chandra’s. It won’t cost you… what is the charming human expression? An arm and a leg?” a smirk curled her muzzle, and she sat, jabbing her snout towards the moon, swallowing, feeling the pleasant weight sink into the tight grip of her slick throat. She could feel him sliding, helpless. “I’m afraid it is, significantly more expensive than that…” her tongue rolled over her chops, as she resumed the walk back to her own cavern. Depending how one saw it, this human was either lucky, or unlucky that he wasn’t the first two-legged treat she had found this night… else his fate would be, longer. Either way, it ended the same. Customer service was nothing if not consistent, at Inn Zorian…
Originally I was going to call it The Inn: Chandra, but that seemed too obvious.
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“Damn” Ralph exclaimed, not for the first time that day, a turn in the road revealing, just more road. Admittedly road was a kind word, it was more a beaten track. Wide enough for carts, not that they had one, not anymore.
“Relax… we already knew it was likely to take two days to get there” Liza, his companion gave the frustrated man a nudge, moving to a tree by the road. Forest surrounded them, she noted bitterly. She hated camping in forests… she felt so, surrounded “maybe it’s time to call it quits for the night… we’re all tired”
Ralph spat to the road, but offered no objection, so she waved down their… bodyguard turned pack mule. The mercenary went by Rick. He was a professional, that was all she cared about. They didn’t like him, he didn’t care about them, only the coins they paid him. It was purely business. He helped them feel safe at night, their travelling gave him job security. Or it had. He was more quiet than normal, which wasn’t saying much. He knew well enough they’d be, ending his service at the next village. She would have worried about him robbing them now that the job was over, if they had anything worth taking. Oddly convenient really. They couldn’t afford to keep him, but that also meant they didn’t have anything worth taking if he was annoyed.
Their packs at least, weren’t that heavy these days… though that was decidedly bittersweet. Rick set to putting up their sole tent… for the sake of fairness, it was spread between a cluster of trees, forming a roof of sorts they could all sleep beneath. She took the time to approach Ralph, rolling her hands over his shoulders, taking off his pack and stroking along his exposed back “relax, we get there tomorrow, we sell what we can. It’ll be rough going for a while, but we’re canny enough to make it”
“Yeah…” he sighed, leaning into her attention “I guess travelling with just you and me might… have its perks, at least, hmm?”
She gave him a shove, chuckling “you wish”
“Oh, just wishing, am I?” he turned his head, some of his playful side finally back on his face “you forget how we met, milady…”
She rolled her eyes “oh, the irony of fate… you had more chance of getting lucky as a customer than as my companion…”
He shook his head, scooping up his pack “ah well… I got some dried meat from the last village. Gods knows what it is… but it looked fresh. Nice and salty too”
She sighed, considering how divine that sounded, just a few delicious chunks strewn amid the meagre stew they’d manage tonight, spreading a wealth of flavour amid the gloop… “I won’t ask what you paid for it”
She sorted their bags, helping Rick lay out the thick cloth they used for bedding, frowning how the moss of the forest was already creating wet patches. Meanwhile, Ralph was preparing their dinner, the bubbling water a pleasant sound amid the eerie quiet of the trees. A few tubers laid out beside the fire, ready to be chopped. He scattered a few herbs he had gathered from around them into the water, filing their little corner of the woods with an earthy, aromatic hint amid the grimy smell of the wild.
Lisa sighed, sitting down on the driest patch of the sheet she could find, resting her feet. It wasn’t much, but, the little luxuries were divine.
The serene moment, carved into the hassle of the day, didn’t last long. She was just contemplating getting up, being still putting a chill into her, when a new sound began to echo, deep and ominous through the air around them… it was, a thump, it was, routine, getting louder. She’d never heard anything like it before… but, there was one option that sprung to mind. Ralph clearly had thought of it too. In a moment his hands were on the pot, turning it over, boiling water dousing the fire in a cloud of steam, his ingredients thrown hastily into the pan before it was thrust in his bag, her companion joining her under the tree cover. Travellers were always told, to beware thuds, distant and high… for it could be dragon wings… She grabbed up what she could, stuffing it into her bag, in case they had to run, or move deeper into the trees, but, for the moment, they stayed still, very still… The best option was it wasn’t a dragon… second best, that it didn’t see them, or smell them, or know they were there. So, they stayed cautious and still, as the beating sound got closer, and stopped.
The trees creaked around her as a weight hit the tent above, snapping the cords holding it to the tree, the weight… the, grasping weight coming down upon her, surrounding her entirely in the tent as she screamed, pushing out and feeling… the grip tighten, it felt like digits... thick and heavy, they scooped her up, the tent bagging her. Outside she heard the other two crying out, but their voices didn’t grow distant, or ebb… even as seconds passed… she had to assume it had grabbed them too… Suddenly the grip scooped beneath her body, and a surge jolted her, the beating sound resuming, but even closer. She cursed her luck, and curled up in a ball, her bag digging into her chest as she was held in the talons of the beast… so much for a nice dinner… now they’d get to be meaty chunks in this dragon’s diet… greedy thing, she could feel it straining to carry them… something in the beating sounded so, laboured. But she didn’t dare fight anymore… falling to her death, alone, sounded even worse…
She wasn’t sure how long they flew for; the shock of the whole event was messing with her head… she was getting claustrophobic in the dark of her cloth prison. But, she noticed when the wingbeats seemed to, change… they became rapid, and sharp, before she felt the pressure of the talons release, moments before her back hit the ground, slightly padded through the sheets, but wherever she landed was hard… she could tell that much. She pushed out around herself, shaking off the cloth, her panic rising with the frightening anticipation of the end. Her mood not helped by the thuds that surged through the ground beneath her… she guessed the dragon had landed.
Finally, Lisa pushed free of the cloth, finding herself in a cavern, or a tunnel. It went deep, she couldn’t see an end. The other direction was more daunting through. She could only make out a dark shape of dragon, the setting sun behind the beast. But one glance and she was backing away. The unknown of the cave at least offered a delay. To her left and right were her companions, their bags laying by their feet, they seemed to be having the same idea as her. Forgetting her things, tossing her bag down she ran, Ralph and Rick overtaking her in their own flee. She could hear the dragon behind them… quick, heavy steps, then a stop, before it began coming after them again. She didn’t think of why, she had only one thought, getting away.
Deeper, she could just about make out the cavern widened, and, she saw light… it puzzled her, but, dragons breathed fire, if the legends were to be believed… Either way, curiosity was far from the forefront of her mind, although, as with her companions, it began to creep forward when they burst into the cavern space. It was, far from what she expected.
There were two things in the cavern she would have never expected to see… first, was a vast junkheap of very human items, and the other… was an Inn. For a cave there was a surprisingly cosy atmosphere. The cave was warm, the music of a single violin playing a soothing if lively tune drifting in the vast space. The Inn, for, that seemed to be what it was calling itself, was open on the ground floor, tables and chairs, a wooden floor, the tables spilling out onto the stone. There were seven or eight patrons sitting around… drinking, a surprisingly young man behind the bar, chatting with an energetic couple, the male of the pair laughed, he had quite the lungs… it echoed over the music. Lisa could see now, against the far wall of the little establishment was the bard, turning and prancing as he played his merry tune. Above the awning into the place, was a long, wide board, with the name scratched in, in… slightly wonky letters, “The Chandra Inn”.
The innkeeper seemed to excuse himself from his conversation, coming around the bar to approach them, offering a gracious bow “please, come, first drink is free at the Chandra Inn… relax, you look like you’ve seen a ghost, I…”
He paused, as the thud of dragon footsteps began to near them once more, and all the fear returned over curiosity. Yet, the Innkeeper waved his hands down “Now, now… relax, she’s not going to Hurt you… the dragoness is Chandra, please… come to the bar, sit, drink, first-timers always have questions… trust me, I know that very well”
“I think we died” Ralph muttered
“No” Lisa added “more likely the beast squeezed us too hard, this will be a suffocation driven hallucination”
Once more the Innkeeper bowed before them “I, am her humble servant, by the way, and your host for the evening, you may call me Leon, now please… you’ll have plenty of time to pinch yourselves after your drink”
Lisa and Ralph exchanged a look. Bereft of options, the surreal offer was tempting. The approaching thud of heavy paws helped the decision immensely. The Inn, was away from the approaching dragon. That was enough.
So, they followed Leon, into his establishment, shooting glances back over their shoulders, to see the beast. The dragon was huge… the largest animal any had beheld by a wide margin, gleaming in the firelight, scales a blazing red. She sat herself at the exit tunnel, concerningly blocking it.
“She’s carrying our bags” Ralph observed, his tone very, calm, it hadn’t sunk in, Lisa assumed. But she saw it now, amid the talons of a forepaw, she recognised the colours of their bags.
Once inside the Inn, if they didn’t look behind them, it could have been almost anywhere they had stopped on their travels. The other patrons seemed relaxed enough, it took the edge off their worries.
Close, the bar showed the inexperience of the one who had made it. Far from shoddy, but… rough. The lines weren’t quite straight, the curves weren’t smooth and flowing. A layer of polish promised to protect them from splinters, at least. Leon placed himself across from them as they sat, his exuberance warming them to him a bit.
“Right… house rules. Two drink maximum I’m afraid, first, our supply up here is… limited, secondly… tempting as it would be to get drunk out of your minds right now, it’s not really that wise to lose all your wits in a dragon’s den, sure you can appreciate that… also…” his smile flickered… a little more forced “well… too drunk and people start wandering off… just stay in the cave and you’ll be fine, I need you to remember that” He shrugged a shoulder “anyway, those rules are just for alcohol, and the first one is free. We have other things, the water we get up here is dragon-carried from the mountain peak, pure and clean as anything… I have some cordials… drinks are limited. You can get a good meal though, and a warm bed, free of charge”
Ralph drummed his fingers on the bar “look, you seem a nice kid, but… please, enough of the innkeeper lines, that’s really not what I want to know right now”
Leon sighed “I get it… drink first though, let me just get you some ale, huh? Easy and simple” he poured a drink for each of his three new guests, passing them to shaking hands before sitting himself “right… long story you can get from her, short version… Chandra likes humans, we fascinate her. So, you’re safe, really, she won’t eat you. Two rules, do not, touch her things” he gestured out, to the junkheap deeper into the cavern “and don’t attack her or any of her guests… those two rules will get you eaten. The deal here is simple” Leon gave them a wry smile “Every night, she goes flying, plucks up people like you off the roadside. Very innocent, here you get a nice warm meal, drink, a free room. Enjoy our little Inn in the mountains, with a bouncer nobody, no bandit no predator, nothing, will dare mess with, if she catches a bard, we get music. Much better than sleeping by the road… there is, of course, a price, you’ll be glad to hear”
Lisa cocked her head, sipping her drink… not bad “why should we be glad to hear that?”
Leon shot her a grin that disquieted her “I don’t know about you, but I feel safer around a dragoness, when I know what she gets out of the deal… wouldn’t being oblivious to that be very, scary?”
She nodded mutely, and he continued “As I said, she is interested in us. The price of all this, is entertaining her. Stories of your travels, or better yet, showing her something she hasn’t seen before, and telling her its purpose… how it’s made, anything. She laps it up like a starved puppy”
He gestured over behind them, and they looked… the dragoness had gotten closer, her muzzle right by the entrance. Glowing eyes watching them.
“When you feel ready, take a table near the edge, that’s the signal to her that you’re prepared to talk to her”
“What about leaving?” Ralph pressed
“On your own, inadvisable” Leon noted “come morning, she will gladly put you right back where she found you. Unless you want to stay longer… we’re mostly a one-night thing, if you wish to stay longer, you need to start giving her things. If she bores of you, she’ll just pluck you up whether you like it or not one morning, and put you back”
“How do you know she really returns people, hmm? Doesn’t just eat us behind the corner?”
He chuckled a bit “returning customers. Besides, I know her. She’s sweet…” he hesitated “for the record, if you see a bigger, purple dragoness… she is not your friend. That one, will eat you. So just stay, relax, you’re safe here, and tomorrow you can continue on your merry way”
Lisa sipped her drink again, it was warming, and her panic had burned itself out… she was almost feeling safe “hard to believe this is really happening… we really get all that, just for talking to a dragon?”
Leon shrugged “it’s not much… the beds are here, the food is largely things she catches, the drink, well… that’s little harder… but not too much. This is her hobby. Think about it… in terms of scale. Supporting an Inn isn’t that much effort for one as huge as she, and it makes her happy”
He leaned a bit closer, his voice lowering “and honestly… this is one of the less impactful ways for me to get her a human fix. I mean… come on, to her this is like cobbling together a shed and letting stray cats sleep in it while she feeds them… it’s not much weirder than anything humans do, just… looks bigger from our perspective”
Lisa leaned back, admittedly enjoying the warmth, the drink… the gentle atmosphere of the place… the music just about drowned out the deep and heavy breathing of their massive host, somewhere out of her view “I guess we lose nothing by trusting you at your word. If this… bizarre thing is true, we… got lucky, in a strange way. If it’s a lie… we’re as doomed as we thought when she was carrying us here, we just one more taste of the good life first”
Ralph groaned beside her, sighing heavily “yeah… guess it’s pretty easy to give you the benefit or the doubt when there’s nothing we can do if the worst case is true… all right, so, how about this warm meal you mentioned? We were just starting cooking when she got us”
A grin took Leon again “our speciality is steak. Not surprising seeing as an obligate carnivore brings in all our food, you’ll find little else but meat here, honestly… I’m working on that, but hey, it’s a bit of luxury on the road, right? I hear that a lot from our patrons”
Lisa glanced to Ralph, rolling her eyes… she could see he was sold from the word steak “yeah. Fresh meat spoils very quickly… needs to be dried, or salted, or smoked… it’ll make you sick too if it goes wrong. Fresh meat is… a luxury” She looked over this, Leon… he really was rather young “you sure that’s what we get?”
“Course” Leon waved the comment aside “she brings in a carcass as her meal, I cut what we need, I know our maximum patronage after all… if she can’t find that many, I throw the raw remains down her gullet after the rest of the beast” he looked behind himself “I’ve got things prepared in the kitchen already. We’re still, largely new. Chances are we might try and improve things if it keeps going well… we’re even talking about hiring staff... but… its complicated” Leon offered them a smile “anyway, stay at the bar, or find a table, or go see Chandra, I’ll find you when your food is ready” he nodded to Rick, who had been staying very quiet, before turning and moving through a back door, seemingly into a room carved into the stone.
Once the innkeeper had disappeared, Ralph and Lisa glanced to each other, before taking a moment to look around… there was cheerful conversation, card games being played. That bard was taking a break… seemed to be flirting with a younger girl sitting by herself. It was an odd group… they all seemed to have their own stories from the look of them.
“So, what do you think?” Lisa asked aloud, putting down her earthen mug
“I think we either go along with it or try to escape… escape past a dragon with only the clothes on our backs on some mountainside with no idea where to go… and with the threat of possibly two dragons, who of course know the area well, intent then on catching us for dinner”
“Go along with it, it is” Lisa agreed, though Rick on Ralph’s far side just grunted
They spared him a look, which he briefly returned “I don’t trust this… you can’t trust a dragon, they eat people, remember?”
“I do remember, it’s why I don’t want to piss this one off” Ralph noted testily
Rick rolled a shoulder “do what you want… way I see it, if this is all true, tomorrow you get dropped a short day’s walk from the town where you were leaving me anyway… I’ll decide whether to leave or stay on my own”
Lisa shrugged a shoulder. She didn’t much care whether they ended their little contract a day early, instead looking over to the settled beast. “maybe we should just throw ourselves into it… go say hello to this, Chandra… see if she seems as nice as he says”
Ralph grunted “I’d gladly stay my distance… but, if talking with her is payment for staying… I’m all for keeping her happy…”
Reluctance and nerves returned as they got to their feet, approaching a table, right before the settled head of the large reptile. This, Chandra, had her long-clawed forepaws settled, one upon the other, and her head laid upon both. Invariably her eyes were on they two as they got closer.
“Chandra… is it?” Ralph asked, his voice aiming for pleasant, but coming out very strained. The dragoness either ignored it, or didn’t notice, for she seemed to smile, a low, pleased grating sound coming from her throat.
“I am… and you two are?”
“I’m Lisa” Lisa spoke, sitting into a chair… hot breath gusting along her leg and side was, unsettling… as was watching the nostrils flare and contract… just being beside such a vast reptilian muzzle… even, if there was a beauty to it “He’s Ralph”
She nodded her head towards the inside “and your friend?”
“Rick… he is, not ready… He guards us on our travels… roads can be dangerous”
“They can? My Leon said so… as have others, but I still don’t quite understand…”
“Dragons for one” Ralph noted quietly, nearly choking on his drink when Chandra’s large glowing eyes swivelled to him an instant later
“I see… then he is fortunate I grabbed him before he could, attack… or he would have ridden…mmm, elsewhere”
“It might be why he’s staying over there” Lisa considered gently “We… Ralph and I, we try not to think about, the chance of encountering dragons. He probably has to consider it every day… meeting one he doesn’t need to risk his life fending off… might take a big mental adjustment”
The dragoness rolled a shoulder, losing interest in the absent human, her eyes flicking up and down the pair “you were my last collection of the night… many of the others are known to me… but you, are new… will you tell me why you were nesting by the walking route?”
They exchanged a look, and Ralph tipped his hand to Lisa, inviting her to tell it. She sighed “we, are merchants… traders. We buy and sell from place to place. We were travelling from one village to another. We haven’t come this way in a long time. Normally, we’d sleep on our cart, but we lost it last week. Actually, with the cart we often didn’t have to sleep by the road… normal Inns and such normally find a way of spacing themselves a good day’s travel by horse”
She paused, and Chandra hummed, seeming to consider “you speak, of something to do with the human, currency… Leon has tried to explain it to me before”
“Trading is pretty simple really. Some things are easy to acquire in some places, and hard in others. You trade or buy them where they’re easy to get, because the people there won’t want much in exchange. Then you take it somewhere it’s hard to find, where people will give a lot more to have it. It’s a reliable life if you don’t get yourself conned, get greedy, and are willing to risk the roads”
“Trick is to travel far” Ralph added “finding something new, is the real way to get rich. If it’s an obvious good investment, you’re competing with other traders for supply and demand, if it’s not obvious… you’re risking everything, with everything to lose and everything to gain”
“Let’s not go that deep” Lisa looked to her companion before looking back to the dragoness “but… that’s our story, really. We travel around, doing that for a living…”
Chandra nodded “then… you must see all sorts of amazing human things… and, trade them”
“I… suppose we must” Lisa replied “Not, that I know what you would consider amazing… I suppose we can show you what we have… you, picked up our bags, didn’t you?”
The dragoness’s head turned away, behind her settled forelimb, bringing the bags, hooked by her fangs, dropping them beside Ralph “I admit, I hoped you had been abandoning them, so I could have them… but Leon tells me humans normally don’t intend that when they run away and drop things…”
Ralph tugged the bad closer to himself, face briefly taken by revolted horror as his hand came away, slimy. He brushed his hand on his hip, shuddering a little.
“Ralph” Lisa prompted gently, her voice firm “we have some spices left, right? Why don’t we show some to the nice dragoness…”?
She shared his reluctance, but was relieved when he opened the bag. She fixed the dragoness with a little smile “spices are, something of a trader’s dream, I’d say. When you can find something new, it makes empires. These… are not new, but we invested in them early on, before we lost the cart. They’re easy to carry, for a high value”
“What are they?” Chandra mused, eyes drifting between the two, casually rolling back and forth, though intimidating to her, small guests
“They… flavour food” Lisa regretted showing the spices the moment she said it, food and eating was a topic to avoid, surely, but while the dragoness’s interest did seem, intent, at least she wasn’t licking her lips.
“Ah… the quirks of human food, may I try some? Would I even, taste it? I don’t want to, take it all if you need it”
They exchanged a look as Ralph held a small jar up, the spice bright and red in the glass “They are, strong, I’m sure a sprinkle we could spare...”
She couldn’t help it, Lisa hid her smirk behind a faint cough as her companion was suddenly presented by the vast jaws spreading wide, fat fleshy tongue rolling onto his lap. He squirmed, not a red fleck left anywhere on his face as he gazed into the dark fleshy abyss. The trembling of his hand perfectly shaking the little jar as the powder puffed the air before settling on the tongue
“Ok… that’s it, please… get your mouth away from me”
Chandra’s long muzzle withdrew, jaws sealing with a smooth click, an unsettlingly wet sound audible to her guests as so close to them the large tongue began to roll around in her maw, a soft pleased hum echoing in her throat
“I can actually taste it… so, unique… mmm, delicious…”
Ralph slid the jar back into the bag, quickly dragging out a coil of rope, seeming intent on redirecting the topic of conversation “and this… we have this we’re trading… do you know rope? It’s… um, used for tying things up, tightly, we weave plant fibres into this… long and sturdy… this is a particularly fine example, see how thin it is, not fat and clunky like some rope”
Chandra’s attention fell back onto the presentation “oh, it’s familiar, I see that a lot… I always thought it was some sort of vine. You mean to tell me humans make this?”
“We do… well, not us two, but people do” Ralph sighed, relaxing into the new line of conversation
“You said it’s very thin… why is that important?” Chandra mused “what do you need especially thin rope for?”
“Binding meat…” Lisa added a touch dismally, Ralph wincing before looking to the rope he was holding
“right… yes”
Lisa groaned, burying her head in her hands “what are you going to show her next Ralph? A frying pan? How about a skewer?”
The dragoness’s eyes were bright, she seemed perfectly excited by all the new words and things being described… oblivious to how the line of examples was depressing her little guests.
Lisa watched Ralph as he tucked the rope away, searching for something, anything in their bag that didn’t relate to food in any possible way. Deep down, she was starting to feel safe… she could see it now, the innocent curiosity in this vast beast… but as far as keeping their talk in nice, safe zones, they were doing very poorly.
Rick kept to the edge of the raucous Inn, eying his companions as they made small talk with the dragon… the head so close, he was sure they would be eaten soon enough… and if not, before they left. He had no wish to stand before the jaws of a beast who would lose not a moment’s sleep about eating them the moment she got hungry…
To his eye, this whole set-up made sense in a different sort of way… the dragoness was giving up her food to fatten up her next meal… keeping them penned in her den till she got, hungry… and of course she could just tell everyone her meal had finally decided to leave and go back to the outside world… never to be seen again. He was certain of that illusion, and that he saw through it. So, he bided his time, waiting till her lackey was well out of sight, and the dragoness was distracted half spreading her jaws around that Ralph. Then he moved, keeping well wide and in the shadows, he made his way around the vast settled beast. She’d gotten very close to her, Inn, now. Enough that most of the exit wasn’t blocked by her scaly rump anymore. Half of the tunnel was made impassable by a lethally swishing tail, but the far side… he could get through there. He had all he needed. Cloak on his back, blade at his hip… all he needed to do was get out, find a road, and with a road would come a new employer. An employer hopefully further away from being dragon food.
It took time, making his careful away around the rear end of the dragoness. The sweep of her tail cast blunt whips of wind at him, he couldn’t take his eyes off the hefty scaled tail, drifting back and forth. He’d heard of men being broken wrecks after the swipe of such a tail… though, maybe bigger than this one. Still, he had no wish to test it. It took time, but he got around the zone of danger with a straight path outside. He made good progress then, glancing back, watching for pursuit, but, the dragoness didn’t follow… must be distracted. Well, she could have her two new toys… she wouldn’t get him. He glanced ahead, the cave unfolding into the wide-open world. The surroundings were rocky and uneven, but his immediate path was clear, so he returned his gaze behind him. He half expected any moment that the ruby muzzle would poke out… getting away from her was a little too easy… was she so easily distracted he could just, sneak off? Well, he couldn’t complain. He turned to look ahead, just in time to see, a rock? He was sure nothing had been in his way, but he half ran into something hard. But it didn’t hurt… not like he’d expect stone to. It was smooth, and though firm, it… was just a little springy, just enough it cushioned the edge of his impact. He fell to his backside, dizzy, looking up. Two amethyst jewels gleamed in the night, a grating sound… like stone on stone except… not. It sounded alike, but didn’t sound like a mineral… there was a note to the sound, a deep one, a vocal one.
The muzzle lowered down, moonlight revealing the angle of the long, draconic jaw. He could barely make it out… this one was, huge… he must have mistaken her for rocks in his first glance… sitting still in the moonlit night. But how live she was had become strikingly clear.
The deep sound of her chuckle surrounded him, before, out of the gloom he saw a paw, long deadly talons. That shook off his daze. He tried to crawl back, but had to watch as two claws pinched at his leg, lifting him up high. From above he could see her more clearly… this must be that older one… so she was real.
“Aww… my sister’s little Inn did not entertain you?” the dragoness cooed, her voice melodic, ringing in both ears… it was hard to hear, or think about anything but her words as he hung before her snout “well, it is such a tame place… maybe you would prefer to stay somewhere more exciting, more, mature…”
Teeth shone, wet and savage as her jaws widened, a wall of slimy tongue slapping against his face as the hot slime was worked all over his chest and legs. He could feel a bounce now; the dragoness was carrying him away.
“I can promise you’ll find your new accommodations much more, engaging. Why… you just, won’t be able to bring yourself to leave”
The tongue rolled at him again, cutting off any reply he might have made, only this time he felt it curl, coiling around his back. The pressure at his leg released, but he didn’t fall… he only slid. His ears popped as the jaws shut, the pressure briefly intense, heat surrounding him entirely as he fought fiercely, managing to barely tickle the larger dragoness.
Zorian licked her lips, a leg poking through her lips, which she drew in with a slurp. Pondering what to do with this little runaway before, with a casual roll of her shoulder, tipping her head back, letting the weight of her tongue slide against her fangs, opening her throat wide for the valiant fighting human “mmm, of course, the warmth of your new home isn’t free like Chandra’s. It won’t cost you… what is the charming human expression? An arm and a leg?” a smirk curled her muzzle, and she sat, jabbing her snout towards the moon, swallowing, feeling the pleasant weight sink into the tight grip of her slick throat. She could feel him sliding, helpless. “I’m afraid it is, significantly more expensive than that…” her tongue rolled over her chops, as she resumed the walk back to her own cavern. Depending how one saw it, this human was either lucky, or unlucky that he wasn’t the first two-legged treat she had found this night… else his fate would be, longer. Either way, it ended the same. Customer service was nothing if not consistent, at Inn Zorian…
Category Story / Vore
Species Western Dragon
Size 50 x 50px
File Size 26.7 kB
Clever, and very original conclusion to the trilogy, and would enjoy seeing the story continue after this.
Zorian being ever-present in the background assures the safety of her perhaps too guillible younger sister, given your mention of supposed professional 'dragonslayers' in the first chapter that might try to take advantage of Chandra's good nature, (though I find the whole dragonslayer business highly improbable when the dragons are so large and intelligent, firearms don't seem to have been invented yet, and there doesn't appear to be any sort of human magical abilities to give them an edge against the apex predators in this world.
Thanks for sharing!
Zorian being ever-present in the background assures the safety of her perhaps too guillible younger sister, given your mention of supposed professional 'dragonslayers' in the first chapter that might try to take advantage of Chandra's good nature, (though I find the whole dragonslayer business highly improbable when the dragons are so large and intelligent, firearms don't seem to have been invented yet, and there doesn't appear to be any sort of human magical abilities to give them an edge against the apex predators in this world.
Thanks for sharing!
Any opportunity to bring up your distaste for the very concept of dragonslayers I see. As I recall, and I mentioned, several times I think, in this world there has been no mention of "Professional dragonslayers" Only lying opportunists who get so into their act they start to believe their own stories, and get eaten. But, insects can take down humans. Creatures with no sentience bringing to the ground the most crafty creatures on the planet with nothing more than their natural weapons. I see no reason for humans killing a dragon to be so impossible, doesn't seem logical. But I know better than to try and sway you from the reality you have decided upon.
If that is what you meant, you should look at the wording in your first chapter. You are the one who used the dragonslayer word, and stated they had only stopped when they realized most dragons in your world had no interest in collecting human treasure so killing them wasn't worth their time. I agree that it doesn't make much sense, considering how easily even young Chandra could them which is why I wondered why you had said such things.
For the record, I don't intend everything any character says to be taken literally. Humans tell stories, like I am doing. Humans like stories of human beings doing the impossible through feats of strength of willpower or ingenuity. Surely you can accept that point, history is riddled with them. Humans also have a tendancy to believe stories they want to believe. So, someone travels through, tells stories of humans who could stand up to dragons because the lured, intrigued people will buy his drinks that night. And they'll be left wondering if it's true. If the stories claim the dragons, say, steal princesses and hoard treasure, how long before some desperate people will sneak close and take a peek. All I feel I need to justify these elements in my stories are two things. Human habit to tell fantastical stories, and a dose of human tendancy to take things too literally, or just do foolish things. And those two points I feel are easily seen.
The way it is phrased leaves the reader to assume it was an entirely truthful statement, because parts of it were in fact true, the part that in your world, dragons normally didn't have hoards of treasure. So the second part that this was why dragonslayers stopped slaying dragons would appear to be equally true. Obviously humans were capable of harming dragons as Chandra's own wound confirms, as well as her sister's warnings of the danger humans could present if going into their villages. By even bringing up the dragonslayer term, you imply that there are skilled, professional human dragon killers in your world (like so many adolescent minded video games, b novels and comic books), and repel intelligent adult readers who understand the absurdity of this given the size and I intelligence of your dragons.
Intelligence and ingenuity are not the same thing. Troupes of apes with equal intelligence may, or may not develop a technology. Humans, the animal specialised for tool-use, bipedal and with the most dextrous paws of any animal, sentient and building civilisations... did not instantly grasp what certain things could be used for. Look at the invention of glass. I don't know why you are convinced it is more "intelligent" or "Adult" to deride and insult interpretations of a mythological creature, particularly when the facts are not on your side, as I made note. Humans can kill things bigger than them, they have proven that, they can also kill intelligent things, they have proven that too. Therefore your accusation of absurdity is itself, absurd. You seem to despise the idea so very much you cannot accept that, there is nothing in any science that can prove you right. If a dragon has a heartbeat, flesh, blood, a biological system, then it can be killed. It would be a lot harder for a human to kill a dragon than the other way around, obviously. It would be mad to even try, but humans have proven they can be that too.
For some reason that first one surprises me, I suppose on some level I'd have thought an inhibitor like that would need to be higher dose, I assume of course it's inhibiting by binding, which would limit its damage potential to quantity... although I suppose any part of the body is shut down indefinetely, it'll shut down. I always assumed the most potent poisons would have a catalytic effect in warping binding sites, then you'd really need very little to destroy the body, right? If such a thing exists, of course. I assume the body is reasonably protected against such chain-reaction like effects. I always found poisons curious, but beyond the basic concept of their function I know few of the specifics for individual poisons
Not magically immune, but being intelligent, they would be able to avoid any human attempt to poison them, as well as build up an immunity to poisons as many reptiles already possess. But this is all for naught, as the huge long snout of a dragon would contain an olfactory bulb so sensitive it could detect the scent of dripping blood from twenty miles away (just like a crocodile), and would be equally able to detect the scent of the slightest trace of any poison which would seem odorless to the poor senses of a human. The first time someone tried to poison a dragon hundreds of years earlier, would probably just make it ill as it would be hard to know, and disguise a lethal dose, and being intelligent beings in most fantasy worlds, the dragon parents would warn their young of the inherent danger and watch were they drink and avoid dead animals that were likely bait. But after the first time humans attempted to poison a dragon, and they utterly destroyed the responsible city and killed thousands of humans in retaliation, no human would ever dare to try poisoning a dragon ever again. The reality is that large intelligent dragons could simply exterminate the human race with near impunity if they proved to be a threat to their kind - which is why virtually every film, story, or game with dragonslaying humans, is just so much fairy tale nonsense which only an ignorant child could take seriously. Humans would have likely fully subjugated/domesticated humans when they were still in the Stone Age, unless the dragons ate them into extinction first.
Humans are intelligent but can be poisoned, especially by other intelligent creatures. You cannot rationally use their intelligence to wave away the idea they could be outsmarted. And even if they could smell a normally odorless poison, it is an illogical leap to assume they would either know it was a poison, or would avoid it. And an immunity to poisons? What are you basing that on... immunity develops to a specific poison a species faces commonly. The rest of your arguement is based upon these flawed assumptions. You are using twisted, easily fought logic to attack anything which doesn't agree with what you want to be so. You have one of the most blatent cases of confirmation bias I have ever seen. If you have any respect as a sensible person, please use common sense. You make so many grandeous assumptions which are based on nothing. Nothing but wild assumptions not based on a shred of reality, and yet you have the gall and nerve to spit venom at anyone who even uses the word dragonslayer. I get it, you're convinced you're right. But I refuse to speak to someone who cannot or will not accept the flaws in their own arguement.
(for Charles) You're talking about poisons developed with modern technology unheard of in Medieval tech settings where most dragon stories take place. You should know that nobles in every culture since the dawn of time were targeted with assassination by rivals with poisons being a common method, yet many died of natural causes at a ripe old age due to taking precautions, which the typical intelligent, fantasy dragon could also take.
But your need to gratify your god complex with fantasies of killing creatures far greater than yourself is exactly the reason why the mainstream world cannot take the fantasy genre very seriously with so much ridiculous dragonslayer nonsense. The educated, sane world is laughing at you, and the asinine stories, games and films created to give your type the gratification you need.
Scientists inform us that if theropod dinosaurs like T Rex didn't go extinct, mankind would never have existed as primitive man would be powerless against such creatures. It shouldn't take to much brainpower to realize if those T-Rexes were highly intelligent, could fly, and had built in flamethrowers, mankind's fate would be even more obvious. Someday you may grow up enough to understand these things.
But your need to gratify your god complex with fantasies of killing creatures far greater than yourself is exactly the reason why the mainstream world cannot take the fantasy genre very seriously with so much ridiculous dragonslayer nonsense. The educated, sane world is laughing at you, and the asinine stories, games and films created to give your type the gratification you need.
Scientists inform us that if theropod dinosaurs like T Rex didn't go extinct, mankind would never have existed as primitive man would be powerless against such creatures. It shouldn't take to much brainpower to realize if those T-Rexes were highly intelligent, could fly, and had built in flamethrowers, mankind's fate would be even more obvious. Someday you may grow up enough to understand these things.
Please.... if you think a cave bear, sabertooth cat or dire wolf would present the same kind of threat something like a T-Rex over 20 times the mass of the largest mammalian predator known to man, then you really are dumber than I could have imagined. A human could actually stab any of those with a flint spear, but couldn't penetrate the hide of a reptile that large. The scientists understand this, you don't.
I agree. I thing functioning magic is stupid, because its not real, but a flying dragon with a forty foot wingspan is possible because there are flying pterosaurs that big. Yes, so if large, intelligent dragons and humans cohabited the same planet it would only be because the dragons decided not to devour humans to the point of extinction, and kept them as slaves, pets or worshippers. But if that were the case, the humans would have remained primitive, much line the isolated stone age cultures discovered in remote places.
S yeah, I guess we both agree that the typical B fantasy story with knights in shining armor slaying dragons is rubbish.
I agree. I thing functioning magic is stupid, because its not real, but a flying dragon with a forty foot wingspan is possible because there are flying pterosaurs that big. Yes, so if large, intelligent dragons and humans cohabited the same planet it would only be because the dragons decided not to devour humans to the point of extinction, and kept them as slaves, pets or worshippers. But if that were the case, the humans would have remained primitive, much line the isolated stone age cultures discovered in remote places.
S yeah, I guess we both agree that the typical B fantasy story with knights in shining armor slaying dragons is rubbish.
....You've never really seen what a bear can do, can you? Grizzlys can and will fight for several minutes after they have been shot point blank with rifles. Cave bears and short-faced bears were even larger, even more heavily built, and even tougher, and we still wiped out those bastards. Never underestimate the shit that humans can do - if it isn't hunting them outright, it's habitat destruction and depriving them of prey.
Also, those pterosaurs weren't armored, nor did they have anything even remotely close to a dragon's claws and teeth. Plenty of accessible weak points, especially with the hollow bones needed for flight; a party of humans with sledgehammers or weighted clubs would be able to take one down pretty easily. Also, need I remind you that those pterosaurs also had bodies about as big as a human's, give or take a couple of feet? Even a rhino-sized dragon would need a much bigger wingspan to stay aloft, and that's not even taking the extra weight of the armor, horns, and spikes into account.
Furthermore, your statement of 'the only way' humans and sapient dragons would coexist on the same world is complete and utter bullshit, neglecting everything from geographical isolation and differing habitats to stuff as basic as what dragons in that universe would be eating and exactly how intelligent they are.
If you're going to act like you're an authority on paleontology, don't cherry pick stuff.
PS: Nothing's gonna save a dragon from asphyxiation: just lure one into a cave, then seal off the entrances with boulders and wait for it to run out of air. Fire breath isn't exactly handy when you've got a limited amount of oxygen.
Also, those pterosaurs weren't armored, nor did they have anything even remotely close to a dragon's claws and teeth. Plenty of accessible weak points, especially with the hollow bones needed for flight; a party of humans with sledgehammers or weighted clubs would be able to take one down pretty easily. Also, need I remind you that those pterosaurs also had bodies about as big as a human's, give or take a couple of feet? Even a rhino-sized dragon would need a much bigger wingspan to stay aloft, and that's not even taking the extra weight of the armor, horns, and spikes into account.
Furthermore, your statement of 'the only way' humans and sapient dragons would coexist on the same world is complete and utter bullshit, neglecting everything from geographical isolation and differing habitats to stuff as basic as what dragons in that universe would be eating and exactly how intelligent they are.
If you're going to act like you're an authority on paleontology, don't cherry pick stuff.
PS: Nothing's gonna save a dragon from asphyxiation: just lure one into a cave, then seal off the entrances with boulders and wait for it to run out of air. Fire breath isn't exactly handy when you've got a limited amount of oxygen.
Wrong on all counts. The typical dragons of the mainstream fantasy genre which are being discussed here are generally at least the size of a large theropod dinosaur -- far larger than any land predator prehistoric humans have ever had to contend with. Writers and readers of the genre generally accept they are both reasonably well armored, being covered in keratin scales, but also able to fly. But most important of all, it is accepted in the vast bulk of stories that their intellect is as great, if not greater than humans. But if giant Azarchid pterosaurs did indeed live in the time of early man, they too could have likely exterminated us, and several scientists have stated this would certainly be the case if large theropod dinosaurs had still been around. As it was, moderate sized birds of prey wreaked havoc upon mankind's early ancestors, so a pterosaur over ten times the mass of any of those could have easily exterminated them. In fact, it would only be dragons with great intelligence that may have spared humans extermination by realizing their use as pets, worshippers and domesticated livestock could be of greater benefit than simply eating them into extinction during the stone age.
The dragons of mainstream fantasy are generally accepted as being able to inhabits cold climates, and fly great distances as well,
And why would you think a giant flying super predator with human level intelligence would get itself lured into a cave where it could be asphyxiated? Of course that can happen if you are writing idiotic rubbish to intended to amuse small children (or designing video games for the same ilk), but these works are never written from the point of view of the intelligent dragon. And what humans would realistically dare risk the terrible retribution bought upon them if they were able to kill one of the weakest or least intelligent dragons in their midst, when its relatives would have the ability to wipe them out with near total impunity? This fact is also never brought up in most of the dragon themed stories as the writers in most cases have predetermined the humans will triumph as this is what they believe their readers want regardless of how implausible this is.
The dragons of mainstream fantasy are generally accepted as being able to inhabits cold climates, and fly great distances as well,
And why would you think a giant flying super predator with human level intelligence would get itself lured into a cave where it could be asphyxiated? Of course that can happen if you are writing idiotic rubbish to intended to amuse small children (or designing video games for the same ilk), but these works are never written from the point of view of the intelligent dragon. And what humans would realistically dare risk the terrible retribution bought upon them if they were able to kill one of the weakest or least intelligent dragons in their midst, when its relatives would have the ability to wipe them out with near total impunity? This fact is also never brought up in most of the dragon themed stories as the writers in most cases have predetermined the humans will triumph as this is what they believe their readers want regardless of how implausible this is.
"The typical dragons of the mainstream fantasy genre which are being discussed here are generally at least the size of a large theropod dinosaur -- far larger than any land predator prehistoric humans have ever had to contend with."
Except, you know, whales; you know, those things that we regularly murder the shit out of?
"But most important of all, it is accepted in the vast bulk of stories that their intellect is as great, if not greater than humans."
...Except it isn't. In most of the stories I've read, dragons are, well, animals - intelligent animals, yes, but still animals. However, that simply isn't relevant to the conversation - people can have different ideas of what a dragon is, a fact that you refuse to accept, you utter fucking child.
"But if giant Azarchid pterosaurs did indeed live in the time of early man, they too could have likely exterminated us, and several scientists have stated this would certainly be the case if large theropod dinosaurs had still been around."
...Why would azhdarchids specialize in eating humans, especially when they would have a huge number of other animals that would be much faster breeders and much more numerous? If these apex predators had survived, then all of their prey would as well, meaning that there are still ornithopods and such around... Which in and of itself would mean that there wouldn't be any opportunity for humans to evolve via the butterfly effect, making your point useless.
The sheer number of leaps of logic that you're going through to satiate your obsession with making your dragons unkillable Mary Sue beasts is frankly astounding.
Also, you're wrong about the birds of prey - they pretty obviously did not 'wreak havoc' upon hominids given that, you know, we're still around. At worst, they occasionally hunted us out of the dozens of species that we coexisted with. Plus, it's pretty easy to avoid flying predators; as big as azhdarchids were, they weren't that good at navigating areas like dense jungles and forests, same as eagles and, presumably, dragons.
"and several scientists have stated this would certainly be the case if large theropod dinosaurs had still been around."
Then name these scientists, dipshit, because I've met actual paleontologists and gone on digs, and they tend to agree that we would fuck over bigger dinosaurs pretty badly.
"And why would you think a giant flying super predator with human level intelligence would get itself lured into a cave where it could be asphyxiated? Of course that can happen if you are writing idiotic rubbish to intended to amuse small children"
Same way that you could lure an army into a trap; have it chase an armored squad in that then proceed to escape through tunnels that the dragon's great size would prevent it from using.
You seem to think that sapient = Knowing absolutely everything and anything. It does not. Read a fucking dictionary.
"And what humans would realistically dare risk the terrible retribution bought upon them if they were able to kill one of the weakest or least intelligent dragons in their midst, when its relatives would have the ability to wipe them out with near total impunity?"
I don't know, what human would realistically risk trying to kill a mammoth for the first time, or try to build an attempt at a flying machine? If something can be done, you can bet that humans will figure out how to do it. Also, why the fuck do you assume that any attempt to kill a dragon would result in every dragon, like, ever killing an entire city? Why would dragons want to seek retribution for someone getting rid of competition for resources and territory?
You're a real fucking hypocrite, you know - you act like a condescending prick to everyone who dares to have their own ideas about a mythological creature, and yet you yourself make a huge assumption about how dragon society would work that has zero basis in myth. In pretty much every goddamn legend and fantasy work out there, dragons are antisocial by nature, preferring to live alone. There is no reason why any of them would give the slightest inkling of a fuck about another dragon dying.
You also assume that there would be no way for humans to counterattack, despite science itself disagreeing with you. The wing membranes and the joints would be easy targets, grounding and hamstringing the dragon, respectively; what's more, the mouth and cloaca would be unarmored by necessity (The Dragon of Wantley is actually a story that tells of a dragon killed via the latter method).
"In fact, it would only be dragons with great intelligence that may have spared humans extermination by realizing their use as pets, worshippers and domesticated livestock could be of greater benefit than simply eating them into extinction during the stone age. "
Then they're fucking stupid dragons, because humans make shit livestock. We take forever to grow and reproduce, need constant attention, and we're belligerent as shit.
Except, you know, whales; you know, those things that we regularly murder the shit out of?
"But most important of all, it is accepted in the vast bulk of stories that their intellect is as great, if not greater than humans."
...Except it isn't. In most of the stories I've read, dragons are, well, animals - intelligent animals, yes, but still animals. However, that simply isn't relevant to the conversation - people can have different ideas of what a dragon is, a fact that you refuse to accept, you utter fucking child.
"But if giant Azarchid pterosaurs did indeed live in the time of early man, they too could have likely exterminated us, and several scientists have stated this would certainly be the case if large theropod dinosaurs had still been around."
...Why would azhdarchids specialize in eating humans, especially when they would have a huge number of other animals that would be much faster breeders and much more numerous? If these apex predators had survived, then all of their prey would as well, meaning that there are still ornithopods and such around... Which in and of itself would mean that there wouldn't be any opportunity for humans to evolve via the butterfly effect, making your point useless.
The sheer number of leaps of logic that you're going through to satiate your obsession with making your dragons unkillable Mary Sue beasts is frankly astounding.
Also, you're wrong about the birds of prey - they pretty obviously did not 'wreak havoc' upon hominids given that, you know, we're still around. At worst, they occasionally hunted us out of the dozens of species that we coexisted with. Plus, it's pretty easy to avoid flying predators; as big as azhdarchids were, they weren't that good at navigating areas like dense jungles and forests, same as eagles and, presumably, dragons.
"and several scientists have stated this would certainly be the case if large theropod dinosaurs had still been around."
Then name these scientists, dipshit, because I've met actual paleontologists and gone on digs, and they tend to agree that we would fuck over bigger dinosaurs pretty badly.
"And why would you think a giant flying super predator with human level intelligence would get itself lured into a cave where it could be asphyxiated? Of course that can happen if you are writing idiotic rubbish to intended to amuse small children"
Same way that you could lure an army into a trap; have it chase an armored squad in that then proceed to escape through tunnels that the dragon's great size would prevent it from using.
You seem to think that sapient = Knowing absolutely everything and anything. It does not. Read a fucking dictionary.
"And what humans would realistically dare risk the terrible retribution bought upon them if they were able to kill one of the weakest or least intelligent dragons in their midst, when its relatives would have the ability to wipe them out with near total impunity?"
I don't know, what human would realistically risk trying to kill a mammoth for the first time, or try to build an attempt at a flying machine? If something can be done, you can bet that humans will figure out how to do it. Also, why the fuck do you assume that any attempt to kill a dragon would result in every dragon, like, ever killing an entire city? Why would dragons want to seek retribution for someone getting rid of competition for resources and territory?
You're a real fucking hypocrite, you know - you act like a condescending prick to everyone who dares to have their own ideas about a mythological creature, and yet you yourself make a huge assumption about how dragon society would work that has zero basis in myth. In pretty much every goddamn legend and fantasy work out there, dragons are antisocial by nature, preferring to live alone. There is no reason why any of them would give the slightest inkling of a fuck about another dragon dying.
You also assume that there would be no way for humans to counterattack, despite science itself disagreeing with you. The wing membranes and the joints would be easy targets, grounding and hamstringing the dragon, respectively; what's more, the mouth and cloaca would be unarmored by necessity (The Dragon of Wantley is actually a story that tells of a dragon killed via the latter method).
"In fact, it would only be dragons with great intelligence that may have spared humans extermination by realizing their use as pets, worshippers and domesticated livestock could be of greater benefit than simply eating them into extinction during the stone age. "
Then they're fucking stupid dragons, because humans make shit livestock. We take forever to grow and reproduce, need constant attention, and we're belligerent as shit.
You are really too ignorant to devote any more attention to, but I will just highlight a few things.
1. How can you possibly compare hunting whales (who would never normally encounter a land dwelling creature like a human and therefore not even recognize a person as a potential food item ), with a giant land predator that would consider humans a very suitable food item, even to the point of specialize in taking them. A good example are the hundreds of thousands of humans annually consumed by crocodiles in the centuries before high powered rifles were invented. The Nile crocodile Gustave seems to be a specialist man-eater believed to have killed over 300 humans. The only thing that may have saved humans from extinction from crocodiles is that their hunting is generally restricted to waterways where they practice their ambush tactics.
2. To compare humans hunting large herbivores like Mammoth, to any real predator of the same mass is utterly ridiculous.
3. I made my assumptions of dragon behavior based on the popular acceptance in the mainstream fantasy genre that they are intelligent enough to communicate with humans, exhibit maternal instincts and are social creatures. Based on these assumptions all of my comments are validated. But if the dragons were simply feral reptiles with relatively the same intelligence as crocodiles, they would be even more devastating predators of early man, because unlike crocodiles, they could prey on humans in every environment.
4. Even if dragons had unrealistically thin natural armor and be vulnerable to arrows and other weapons, they could restrict their hunting humans to dark nights when they cannot be targeted. At all other times they would likely keep out of range of human missile weapons, but even then could wreak death and destruction dropping rocks and incendiaries with total impunity.
5. You seem to be cherry picking only the most stupid of dragon myths, which if you were more familiar with the subject, you would know that many of these were deliberate farces created for mirth, and not actual legends. The reason the dragon depicted in most medieval imagery of St. George is hardly ever larger that a small pony because real medieval people understood how deadly even a dragon that size would be, and a dragon any larger than that couldn't be killed by even a Saint. As you can see carved or painted on Medieval Churches are final judgement scenes in which huge heavenly dragons are devouring sinners with total impunity, as these people understood they could do nothing to stop such creatures. Quite amusingly, as people became farther and farther separated in time by these people, people who wrote stories about dragons became stupider and stupider, somehow believing a mere human could kill such large and formidable predators, which has culminated today in the ridiculous dragonslaying films, games and stories, which no intelligent adult could possibly take seriously. Grow up dude, everyone who matters is laughing at you.
1. How can you possibly compare hunting whales (who would never normally encounter a land dwelling creature like a human and therefore not even recognize a person as a potential food item ), with a giant land predator that would consider humans a very suitable food item, even to the point of specialize in taking them. A good example are the hundreds of thousands of humans annually consumed by crocodiles in the centuries before high powered rifles were invented. The Nile crocodile Gustave seems to be a specialist man-eater believed to have killed over 300 humans. The only thing that may have saved humans from extinction from crocodiles is that their hunting is generally restricted to waterways where they practice their ambush tactics.
2. To compare humans hunting large herbivores like Mammoth, to any real predator of the same mass is utterly ridiculous.
3. I made my assumptions of dragon behavior based on the popular acceptance in the mainstream fantasy genre that they are intelligent enough to communicate with humans, exhibit maternal instincts and are social creatures. Based on these assumptions all of my comments are validated. But if the dragons were simply feral reptiles with relatively the same intelligence as crocodiles, they would be even more devastating predators of early man, because unlike crocodiles, they could prey on humans in every environment.
4. Even if dragons had unrealistically thin natural armor and be vulnerable to arrows and other weapons, they could restrict their hunting humans to dark nights when they cannot be targeted. At all other times they would likely keep out of range of human missile weapons, but even then could wreak death and destruction dropping rocks and incendiaries with total impunity.
5. You seem to be cherry picking only the most stupid of dragon myths, which if you were more familiar with the subject, you would know that many of these were deliberate farces created for mirth, and not actual legends. The reason the dragon depicted in most medieval imagery of St. George is hardly ever larger that a small pony because real medieval people understood how deadly even a dragon that size would be, and a dragon any larger than that couldn't be killed by even a Saint. As you can see carved or painted on Medieval Churches are final judgement scenes in which huge heavenly dragons are devouring sinners with total impunity, as these people understood they could do nothing to stop such creatures. Quite amusingly, as people became farther and farther separated in time by these people, people who wrote stories about dragons became stupider and stupider, somehow believing a mere human could kill such large and formidable predators, which has culminated today in the ridiculous dragonslaying films, games and stories, which no intelligent adult could possibly take seriously. Grow up dude, everyone who matters is laughing at you.
"You are really too ignorant to devote any more attention to, but I will just highlight a few things."
I'm not worthy of your attention, and yet you write five paragraphs' worth of attention. See, this is why we laugh at you: You're stupid enough to think that you can still win this.
"How can you possibly compare hunting whales (who would never normally encounter a land dwelling creature like a human and therefore not even recognize a person as a potential food item ), with a giant land predator that would consider humans a very suitable food item, even to the point of specialize in taking them."
I don't know, why do you assume that dragons would eat people and only people, when there's so much else that they could eat that provides so much more meat than a couple of stringy monkeys? Also, orcas definitely encounter land animals, given that they can and will haul themselves up onto land and can and will kill people.
"The only thing that may have saved humans from extinction from crocodiles is that their hunting is generally restricted to waterways where they practice their ambush tactics."
....Or the fact that crocodiles don't exclusively eat people. They're generalist predators - honestly, I'd argue that they're more specialized for eating ungulates rather than primates. You also 'conveniently' forget to mention that Gustave is a lone case who was driven to eat people because he had nothing else around - nowadays, he mostly goes for hippos and other huge animals. God, you're an idiot.
"To compare humans hunting large herbivores like Mammoth, to any real predator of the same mass is utterly ridiculous."
Herbivore =/= harmless. If you had even a fraction of the intellect you claim to have, you would know this. A mammoth is a 10-ton giant of bones big enough to build huts with, massive muscles, and thick hide with two 9-foot-long spires of bone bolted to its face that work as a combination of spears, clubs, and shovels along with a prehensile trunk with more muscle in it than the entire human body that can lift up a goddamn bear with ease. And like modern elephants, they were probably roughly as smart as people, worked in groups, and males likely went into blood-hungry kill-frenzies at certain times of the year.
We hunted those fuckers so well, they're nothing more than fossils and carcasses in the snow, then did the same to every one of their cousins and to the things that ate them until there were just two types of elephant left on the planet. We did the same thing to terrestrial crocodiles and giant Komodo dragons in Australia, teratorns in the Americas, gargantuan bears big as elephants across the world.
How the fuck is that not similar? Oh yeah, because you said so and that's it.
"I made my assumptions of dragon behavior based on the popular acceptance in the mainstream fantasy genre that they are intelligent enough to communicate with humans, exhibit maternal instincts and are social creatures."
What acceptance has them be social? I have never seen any form of media that has dragons with all of those characteristics together - you're lying to yourself now. If you have them, name 'em.
"Even if dragons had unrealistically thin natural armor and be vulnerable to arrows and other weapons"
...What planet are you from? Flying animals by necessity don't have armor - it weighs them down too much, and it's just not necessary when you can fly away. Also, you've clearly never seen what crossbows can do - they were designed to puncture the armor of knights from long-range, and they can go right through modern-day cars. At the very least, it would be severely painful to the dragon. At the most, it could send one crashing to the ground and kill it either with the force of the impact alone or where it can be safely brought down.
"You seem to be cherry picking only the most stupid of dragon myths, which if you were more familiar with the subject, you would know that many of these were deliberate farces created for mirth, and not actual legends."
As opposed to normal legends, which.... aren't created to entertain? Oh, yeah, you think dragons are real. A special blend of 'criminally stupid.'
" The reason the dragon depicted in most medieval imagery of St. George is hardly ever larger that a small pony because real medieval people understood how deadly even a dragon that size would be, and a dragon any larger than that couldn't be killed by even a Saint. As you can see carved or painted on Medieval Churches are final judgement scenes in which huge heavenly dragons are devouring sinners with total impunity, as these people understood they could do nothing to stop such creatures."
The size of St. George's dragon is never mentioned in the texts - the reason that it's shown as small in imagery of the time is symbolic, representing how evil is small, pathetic, cowardly.
As for the final judgement scenes you refer to, it's funny; I have never heard of any such carvings, and one of my friends has a PHD in medieval literature and art. He's never seen anything like that, either. Plus, the original text in the Bible doesn't even describe dragons, it describes multi-headed monsters that biblical scholars agree are meant to represent various political figures of the time. Once again, you are too dim-witted to understand that these scenes are not actually real, and so shove them to the forefront stripped of all context, hoping against hope that your opponent will be as dumb as you are.
"....somehow believing a mere human could kill such large and formidable predators, which has culminated today in the ridiculous dragonslaying films, games and stories, which no intelligent adult could possibly take seriously."
If irony had a physical weight, you could pick up the sheer amount of it from this text alone and bludgeon an elephant to death with it. Dragons aren't gonna survive air strikes.
"Grow up dude, everyone who matters is laughing at you."
Assuming that everybody has your serious mental issues is not healthy. See a psychologist - I mean, you probably think that they're putting chemicals in the water to control your mind, but you honestly need to see somebody at the very least.
I like seeing stories where humanity gets knocked down a few dozen pegs, but this is fucking moronic. This isn't the hill you want to die on, pal.
I'm not worthy of your attention, and yet you write five paragraphs' worth of attention. See, this is why we laugh at you: You're stupid enough to think that you can still win this.
"How can you possibly compare hunting whales (who would never normally encounter a land dwelling creature like a human and therefore not even recognize a person as a potential food item ), with a giant land predator that would consider humans a very suitable food item, even to the point of specialize in taking them."
I don't know, why do you assume that dragons would eat people and only people, when there's so much else that they could eat that provides so much more meat than a couple of stringy monkeys? Also, orcas definitely encounter land animals, given that they can and will haul themselves up onto land and can and will kill people.
"The only thing that may have saved humans from extinction from crocodiles is that their hunting is generally restricted to waterways where they practice their ambush tactics."
....Or the fact that crocodiles don't exclusively eat people. They're generalist predators - honestly, I'd argue that they're more specialized for eating ungulates rather than primates. You also 'conveniently' forget to mention that Gustave is a lone case who was driven to eat people because he had nothing else around - nowadays, he mostly goes for hippos and other huge animals. God, you're an idiot.
"To compare humans hunting large herbivores like Mammoth, to any real predator of the same mass is utterly ridiculous."
Herbivore =/= harmless. If you had even a fraction of the intellect you claim to have, you would know this. A mammoth is a 10-ton giant of bones big enough to build huts with, massive muscles, and thick hide with two 9-foot-long spires of bone bolted to its face that work as a combination of spears, clubs, and shovels along with a prehensile trunk with more muscle in it than the entire human body that can lift up a goddamn bear with ease. And like modern elephants, they were probably roughly as smart as people, worked in groups, and males likely went into blood-hungry kill-frenzies at certain times of the year.
We hunted those fuckers so well, they're nothing more than fossils and carcasses in the snow, then did the same to every one of their cousins and to the things that ate them until there were just two types of elephant left on the planet. We did the same thing to terrestrial crocodiles and giant Komodo dragons in Australia, teratorns in the Americas, gargantuan bears big as elephants across the world.
How the fuck is that not similar? Oh yeah, because you said so and that's it.
"I made my assumptions of dragon behavior based on the popular acceptance in the mainstream fantasy genre that they are intelligent enough to communicate with humans, exhibit maternal instincts and are social creatures."
What acceptance has them be social? I have never seen any form of media that has dragons with all of those characteristics together - you're lying to yourself now. If you have them, name 'em.
"Even if dragons had unrealistically thin natural armor and be vulnerable to arrows and other weapons"
...What planet are you from? Flying animals by necessity don't have armor - it weighs them down too much, and it's just not necessary when you can fly away. Also, you've clearly never seen what crossbows can do - they were designed to puncture the armor of knights from long-range, and they can go right through modern-day cars. At the very least, it would be severely painful to the dragon. At the most, it could send one crashing to the ground and kill it either with the force of the impact alone or where it can be safely brought down.
"You seem to be cherry picking only the most stupid of dragon myths, which if you were more familiar with the subject, you would know that many of these were deliberate farces created for mirth, and not actual legends."
As opposed to normal legends, which.... aren't created to entertain? Oh, yeah, you think dragons are real. A special blend of 'criminally stupid.'
" The reason the dragon depicted in most medieval imagery of St. George is hardly ever larger that a small pony because real medieval people understood how deadly even a dragon that size would be, and a dragon any larger than that couldn't be killed by even a Saint. As you can see carved or painted on Medieval Churches are final judgement scenes in which huge heavenly dragons are devouring sinners with total impunity, as these people understood they could do nothing to stop such creatures."
The size of St. George's dragon is never mentioned in the texts - the reason that it's shown as small in imagery of the time is symbolic, representing how evil is small, pathetic, cowardly.
As for the final judgement scenes you refer to, it's funny; I have never heard of any such carvings, and one of my friends has a PHD in medieval literature and art. He's never seen anything like that, either. Plus, the original text in the Bible doesn't even describe dragons, it describes multi-headed monsters that biblical scholars agree are meant to represent various political figures of the time. Once again, you are too dim-witted to understand that these scenes are not actually real, and so shove them to the forefront stripped of all context, hoping against hope that your opponent will be as dumb as you are.
"....somehow believing a mere human could kill such large and formidable predators, which has culminated today in the ridiculous dragonslaying films, games and stories, which no intelligent adult could possibly take seriously."
If irony had a physical weight, you could pick up the sheer amount of it from this text alone and bludgeon an elephant to death with it. Dragons aren't gonna survive air strikes.
"Grow up dude, everyone who matters is laughing at you."
Assuming that everybody has your serious mental issues is not healthy. See a psychologist - I mean, you probably think that they're putting chemicals in the water to control your mind, but you honestly need to see somebody at the very least.
I like seeing stories where humanity gets knocked down a few dozen pegs, but this is fucking moronic. This isn't the hill you want to die on, pal.
(for Gregole previous statement in response to Lediblock) To say something so dumb clearly confirms that you are blissfully ignorant of the fact that it is people from the "educated world" whose books and statements are the basis of my discussions here. Unfortunately though, these discussion are with people who have taken as reality the ridiculous comic books and video games which have brainwashed them since childhood. From everything I have seen you write or draw, you are clearly part of that same ilk. Please understand that even though there are a few, educated, intelligent people who proliferate the fairytale dragonslaying and similar nonsense intended for the ignorant, adolescent-minded masses, they certainly don't take it seriously themselves. They create it to take your money because they know you will buy their rubbish. Fantasizing you can kill a mighty dragon in stories and games is very appealing to the 'losers' who will never accomplish anything important or memorable in their pathetic little lives, and they are resentful of anyone who uses knowledge and common sense to burst their little fantasy bubbles. Given that the only thing I know of you is your bizarre fetish art and ideas, I would be surprised if you even know anyone from the "educated world', that is, the 'mainstream' educated world of normal people with real lives.
(for Zeph), See the comment above reference poisons, but in addition many reptilian species have remarkable resistance to some of the deadliest toxins in the animal kingdom, like lizards and snakes that specialize in eating some of the deadliest species of poisonous snakes that often inject otherwise fatal doses to their predators while being consumed.. And not only poisons, but some reptilian bodies are resilient even to deadly levels of radiation that would kill any bird or mammal, as witnessed by reptiles quickly reoccupying the sites of deadly radiation. Of course, you can make your dragons as weak as you want, like so many authors of B fantasy and bad videogames for the amusement of god complex, wannabe dragonslayers. But the truth of the matter is that all of my observations and comments directed at your writing from the beginning you are based on real scientific, historical and technological evidence. In the real world I am a successful author of several books published in several languages on the subjects I have been advising you on. I can see I am apparently wasting my own valuable time trying to make your already good writing and original ideas into more intelligent stories yet you are apparently so conceited that you spurn any constructive criticism whatsoever.
I'm afraid you're the concieted one. You're the only person to date whose criticism I haven't found constructive. Just look at yourself. This chapter had nothing to do with the topic you so loathe, yet you brought it up. You're just here to rant, because you're convinced you are correct. In fact, your first defence here is to prove the point I made, proving you wrong. I direct you to the note you made, that reptiles that specialise in eating poisonous animals, have poison resistance. You really pretend it is good science to take something one animal can do, and give it to another for no biological reason? Tell me then, what moment in dragon evolution would encourage the resource commitment to such poison resistances? Because there's a reason not everything is resistant, if it's not worth the energy, orthey have never had the selection pressure, they never do. Poison is a small creature's weapon, so tell me why a huge dragon develops it? And while you're at it, explain to me why you feel dragons would be so impregnible? One look at real animals can demonstrate how fragile any animal is. You may, if it soothes you, pretend I am "making my dragons as weak as I want" but your accusation of some, god complex is laughable, frankly I think that accusation says more about you than me. I struggle to find a field of science you have not yet violated in your pretense. Biology to wave away poisons, physics to dismiss human weaponry, psychology to suggest such precognition in these dragons.
I find it sad, that after doing so very much to remove any realistic interpretation of the strengths and limitations of dragons through your determination to make them immortal, untouchable gods, you have the nerve to accuse those who disagree with you of having a god complex. And then throw your I'm an anonymous expert, so I can't be wrong, so there, tantrum onto the chatpage. Honestly, I'm not sure I believe anything you tell me about the "real world" anymore. That you're... what? A successful, multi-lingual writer for every field of science as well as history. All evidence in your capacity for logical arguements is to the contrary, is all I can say.
I find it sad, that after doing so very much to remove any realistic interpretation of the strengths and limitations of dragons through your determination to make them immortal, untouchable gods, you have the nerve to accuse those who disagree with you of having a god complex. And then throw your I'm an anonymous expert, so I can't be wrong, so there, tantrum onto the chatpage. Honestly, I'm not sure I believe anything you tell me about the "real world" anymore. That you're... what? A successful, multi-lingual writer for every field of science as well as history. All evidence in your capacity for logical arguements is to the contrary, is all I can say.
Ummm, any real biologist would understand that a 45 foot long T-Rex would present a greater threat to early man than any bear or lion. And if it flew, spewed fire and possessed human intelligence, (as generally accepted in the fantasy genre), then your notions would be all the more ridiculous.
Your largest examples, the elephants and mammoths, are herbivores with no interest in preying on humans, and still only a fraction of the size carnivorous dinosaurs have attained who would seek out primitive humans as easy prey. But yes, a skilled group or even individual humans are able to kill bears, hippos and lions with stone tipped weapons, but there is simply no comparison with predators fifty times their mass, with keratin scaled and bone studded natural armor in which primitive weapons and human strength could not penetrate. Humans have NEVER faced a true terrestrial 'superpredator' like a large theropod dinosaur, and it is ridiculous to think Paleolithic humans would have any chance against them as many real scientists have maintained. No one still knows for certain the speed and stamina of these creatures and can only speculate. You also overlooked the fact that one step of a large theropod would take a dozen human steps, and humans would be slowed down by thickets, brambles, fallen logs and similar obstacles, that would be of no hindrance whatsoever to a pursuing predatory dinosaur. If anyone is demonstrating how lax their knowledge is on these subjects, it is clearly you. Obviously you are taking far to seriously the ridiculous monster slaying video games and cartoons intended to stoke the god-complex egos of adolescent boys. Adults aren't supposed to take this nonsense seriously, but apparently you do.
Every scientist 50 years ago believed NOTHING larger than the then currently known pterosaurs (with about about 20 foot wingspans) could ever fly. But now we know their knowledge of aerodynamics and gravity were wrong, because now we know there were indeed flying pterosaurs TWICE as big as the fossil record proves, and even larger ones could still be discovered as we know only a small portion of all the different prehistoric creatures have been discovered . It is much like the notion that a Bumblebee should not be to fly, yet it does. Predatory birds, and presumably pterosaurs and 'dragons' as well, are able to carry and fly with quite heavy prey as well.
Keratin is an amazingly light yet strong material, used both for scales and feathers. Feathers, in fact, are a kind of evolved scale. Lightweight armor made from flattened keratin animal horn is as light as plastics, but stronger than steel armor. I have actually made examples and tested it. Experimental archaeology of making and testing ancient weapons and military equipment is the subject of one of my books, and also one of the reasons I am able to dismiss with some authority all of the dragonslaying stories as so much childish rubbish written by people quite ignorant of both animal and human capabilities. The intelligent dragons of fantasy literature would also be able to improve any vulnerable area by forcing human craftsmen to construct lightweight armor to protect any spot that might still be vulnerable, like eye protection. But none of this would be necessary if the dragons kept the humans at a stone age technology level. They could even reduce humans to carry nothing more dangerous than a club, and forbid hunting any came larger than they could catch with a snare under pain of death for disobedience.
Keratin is an amazingly light yet strong material, used both for scales and feathers. Feathers, in fact, are a kind of evolved scale. Lightweight armor made from flattened keratin animal horn is as light as plastics, but stronger than steel armor. I have actually made examples and tested it. Experimental archaeology of making and testing ancient weapons and military equipment is the subject of one of my books, and also one of the reasons I am able to dismiss with some authority all of the dragonslaying stories as so much childish rubbish written by people quite ignorant of both animal and human capabilities. The intelligent dragons of fantasy literature would also be able to improve any vulnerable area by forcing human craftsmen to construct lightweight armor to protect any spot that might still be vulnerable, like eye protection. But none of this would be necessary if the dragons kept the humans at a stone age technology level. They could even reduce humans to carry nothing more dangerous than a club, and forbid hunting any came larger than they could catch with a snare under pain of death for disobedience.
I won't be so hypocritical to chastise one for arguing with Sirrush, as I've clearly shown I rarely see eye to eye with the individual... but I think it only fair to request as politely as possible that in future these comment wars not begin. You are trying to convince a wall that it should really consider trying a new angle. It's not going to happen. With luck I can follow my own advice. But frankly, I'm tired of seeing my comment pages turn into warzones. Basically, I sympathise, but I would ask if the willpower exists that you not start things with Sirrush again.
...Again, you have no idea what animals are like. Elephants are aggressive bastards, and they will charge you if they feel like you're too close. Furthermore, elephants and mammoths actually did match and even exceed most theropods in weight - the steppe and Columbian mammoths spring to mind.
"Humans have NEVER faced a true terrestrial 'superpredator' like a large theropod dinosaur, and it is ridiculous to think Paleolithic humans would have any chance against them as many real scientists have maintained. "
Except, you know, Megalania, terror birds, and dromornithids, all of which we drove to extinction.
"No one still knows for certain the speed and stamina of these creatures and can only speculate. You also overlooked the fact that one step of a large theropod would take a dozen human steps, and humans would be slowed down by thickets, brambles, fallen logs and similar obstacles, that would be of no hindrance whatsoever to a pursuing predatory dinosaur."
We do, actually - stop reading textbooks from the 80s and 90s. The bigger theropods all tend to be pretty crap at turning - a human could easily outmaneuver them, especially once they get into thick brush, which absolutely would slow down a creature like them. It's basic math - smaller organisms can get into spaces too small for bigger organisms, a rule that you can't seem to wrap your dense little skull around. And once again, big predators go after big prey - no use in trying to pursue humans.
"Obviously you are taking far to seriously the ridiculous monster slaying video games and cartoons intended to stoke the god-complex egos of adolescent boys. Adults aren't supposed to take this nonsense seriously, but apparently you do."
Says who? You, the man who thinks that we should bow down to the dragons that live in Loch Ness?
"Humans have NEVER faced a true terrestrial 'superpredator' like a large theropod dinosaur, and it is ridiculous to think Paleolithic humans would have any chance against them as many real scientists have maintained. "
Except, you know, Megalania, terror birds, and dromornithids, all of which we drove to extinction.
"No one still knows for certain the speed and stamina of these creatures and can only speculate. You also overlooked the fact that one step of a large theropod would take a dozen human steps, and humans would be slowed down by thickets, brambles, fallen logs and similar obstacles, that would be of no hindrance whatsoever to a pursuing predatory dinosaur."
We do, actually - stop reading textbooks from the 80s and 90s. The bigger theropods all tend to be pretty crap at turning - a human could easily outmaneuver them, especially once they get into thick brush, which absolutely would slow down a creature like them. It's basic math - smaller organisms can get into spaces too small for bigger organisms, a rule that you can't seem to wrap your dense little skull around. And once again, big predators go after big prey - no use in trying to pursue humans.
"Obviously you are taking far to seriously the ridiculous monster slaying video games and cartoons intended to stoke the god-complex egos of adolescent boys. Adults aren't supposed to take this nonsense seriously, but apparently you do."
Says who? You, the man who thinks that we should bow down to the dragons that live in Loch Ness?
You showing your ignorance again. There is no evidence early man ever hunted a single Megalania, and would likely have no chance against them. I believe the same can be said for terror birds as well. Real scientists continue to debate if it were ancient man or environmental changes that brought the end of the macrofaunal that fed Megalania.
Whether real or not, the terrestrial sightings of 'Nessie' strongly suggest the creature to be more like the dragons of European legend than a water-bound Plesiosaur. I believe Columba's original account in latin referred to it as a Dragon (Draco).
Whether real or not, the terrestrial sightings of 'Nessie' strongly suggest the creature to be more like the dragons of European legend than a water-bound Plesiosaur. I believe Columba's original account in latin referred to it as a Dragon (Draco).
Except, you know, how Megalania suddenly stops being a thing in the fossil record riiiight as humans arrive.
It's not a debate anymore, it's fucking well-known. The aborigines still use the brush fires that their ancestors used to hunt - the same fires that wiped out the megafauna's grazing grounds and starved Megalania to extinction.
Furthermore, the accounts of Nessie are so damn variable that it's impossible to say what the fuck it is. Some describe it as a gigantic slug-like creature, others like an ungulate with long legs, others like a retro plesiosaur. Once again, cherry-picking.
It's not a debate anymore, it's fucking well-known. The aborigines still use the brush fires that their ancestors used to hunt - the same fires that wiped out the megafauna's grazing grounds and starved Megalania to extinction.
Furthermore, the accounts of Nessie are so damn variable that it's impossible to say what the fuck it is. Some describe it as a gigantic slug-like creature, others like an ungulate with long legs, others like a retro plesiosaur. Once again, cherry-picking.
To be fair, more recent evidence suggests that it was actually an endurance hunter just like we are, and like all dinosaurs, their respiratory system was quite a bit more efficient than those of mammals. Conversely, though, it would be easy to target a T-rex; go for the legs. If a Tyrannosaurus fell over, it would have a rough time getting itself back onto its feet; plenty of time to whale on the thing with everything you've got. However, T-rex's specialized nature makes it a really bad example for what dinosaur/human interactions would be like - these were animals that evolved specifically to hunt ceratopsians and hadrosaurs, utterly massive prey, and was ungodly tough as a result; a human just wouldn't show up on their radar as something worth chasing. Like you said, we're much faster, not worth the expended energy.
To me, a T-rex just isn't dangerous to people; it'd probably be more of a livestock hunter than anything else, which in turn means that it would probably be hunted as a threat to people's livelihoods. Honestly, it's Triceratops that I would consider to be a bigger threat - fuckers were heavier than T-rex, omnivorous, armored almost everywhere on their bodies, and could impale with enough force to kill with the shockwaves of the impact ripping apart your internal organs.
In all seriousness, though, I must applaud you. You're a pretty cool fella - always fun to see someone with brains take Sirrush down a notch or dozen.
To me, a T-rex just isn't dangerous to people; it'd probably be more of a livestock hunter than anything else, which in turn means that it would probably be hunted as a threat to people's livelihoods. Honestly, it's Triceratops that I would consider to be a bigger threat - fuckers were heavier than T-rex, omnivorous, armored almost everywhere on their bodies, and could impale with enough force to kill with the shockwaves of the impact ripping apart your internal organs.
In all seriousness, though, I must applaud you. You're a pretty cool fella - always fun to see someone with brains take Sirrush down a notch or dozen.
Taken down? Really? Haven't either of you been able to grasp what the real scientists who made these claims long before me understood? If the theropod dinosaurs didn't become extinct, they would have exterminated humans by virtue of exterminating their ancestors of years earlier back in the days of Australopithecus when they were even more vulnerable. But if Neanderthal or Cro Magnon man somehow just magically landed in the Cretaceous as you seem to imagine, I strongly doubt they would have had much more luck against them either.
But in your fantasy of world of Neolithic 'cavemen' vs. dinosaurs, yes, adult t-rexes might have been more interested in eating larger prey like their domesticated cattle, though the younger, smaller (and much FASTER) ones, as well as smaller carnivores like dromaeosaurs would certainly have played havoc on more suitably sized human prey.
But in your fantasy of world of Neolithic 'cavemen' vs. dinosaurs, yes, adult t-rexes might have been more interested in eating larger prey like their domesticated cattle, though the younger, smaller (and much FASTER) ones, as well as smaller carnivores like dromaeosaurs would certainly have played havoc on more suitably sized human prey.
"But if Neanderthal or Cro Magnon man somehow just magically landed in the Cretaceous as you seem to imagine, I strongly doubt they would have had much more luck against them either."
They'd have about as much luck as humans that magically landed in a world where dinosaurs never went extinct. Once again, and I'll say it slowly so you can understand:
If dinosaurs.... Never went.... extinct.... then humans.... wouldn't.... evolve!
They'd have about as much luck as humans that magically landed in a world where dinosaurs never went extinct. Once again, and I'll say it slowly so you can understand:
If dinosaurs.... Never went.... extinct.... then humans.... wouldn't.... evolve!
And once again, your fantasy world doesn't take into account the fact that just because something can eat something else, doesn't mean that it will always eat that thing. Why bother with small primates when there's plenty of bigger, easier-to-hunt animals around? Same goes for that scenario that you created then insist that I made - animals don't tend to hunt unfamiliar prey, instead giving it a wide berth. Same would go for tyrannosaurs - plus, I'm willing to bet that they'd be afraid of fire like, you know, every animal we know of.
Wrong again. The largest living reptiles, crocodilians indeed have remarkable poison resistance. Biologists have observed alligators being repeated bitten in the tongue by large rattlesnakes, and suffered no ill effects. They also have one of the best senses of smell in the animal kingdom. They also have excellent eyesight, and their armor is so strong it has deflected musket balls. The Ode to the Leviathan in the book of Job, describes what is probably an adult Nile Crocodile, which can attain a length of over 20 feet. The ode tells of its great strength, ferocity, armor, etc. Before the introduction of modern firearms to their environs, these crocodiles killed tens of thousands of humans with nearly total impunity every year.. Now imagine how much more dangerous a huge crocodile could be if it had human intelligence and could fly.. Stone Age humans would never have a chance. I have never suggested dragons should have godlike or magical powers, no more than the scientists who say humans could never have survived a world inhabited by T-Rex. Unlike you and Charles, I actually understand REAL human and animal capabilities, and stone age humans versus giant, intelligent, flying reptiles is a no brainer to anyone with a modicum of intelligence, and who hasn't been brainwashed playing asinine dragonslayer videogames, or have read way to many B fantasy stories with dragonslaying humans. And even if a stone age human (for it is unlikely they could ever progress further in a world inhabited by huge intelligent, flying dragons), managed to kill their first dragon, (likely a young and experienced one), the retribution could be so terrible that they would never dare to attempt it again. One of your own dragons, (flying, fiery breath, scale covered, intelligent reptile huge enough to swallow a human whole), would be able to create a famine that would devastate medieval Britain if it felt like it, and humans would be unable to stop it.
No I am not a multi-lingual writer, my publisher translates my books to Italian, German, and French -- books all about real ancient and medieval military technology which you have demonstrated time and time again that you know nothing about.
And for the record, you have never disproved ANY comment I have ever made to you. Please show me just one instance.
No I am not a multi-lingual writer, my publisher translates my books to Italian, German, and French -- books all about real ancient and medieval military technology which you have demonstrated time and time again that you know nothing about.
And for the record, you have never disproved ANY comment I have ever made to you. Please show me just one instance.
Please do not lie and put words in my mouth that I have never said. Along with your childish name calling, you simply confirm your immaturity. (You on the other hand, are the one who has buffoonishly claimed you are God and have killed all the dragons - presumably with your magical powers).
Unlike you, I have never once claimed that 'magic' or 'dragons' were real, but simply demonstrated that if a real creature with the many attributes given to the mythic dragons of popular literature actually existed, it would make them such incredibly dangerous predators that early humans wouldn't have a chance against them. Many credible scientists have said as much if simply theropod dinosaurs survived the KT event, let alone something like a flying T-Rex with human intelligence and a built-in, organic flamethrower.
In fact, if perhaps the closest thing to a real dragon in the fossil record existed in the time of early man, the huge Azarchid Pterosaurs like Quetzalcoatlus, they would have likely gobbled them up to extinction Australopithecus and similar diminutive hominids with the same efficiency as a heron would a rat or squirrel - no need at all for flaming breath too, (although several scientists have come up with plausible ways such a thing would be biologically possible). So the only way humans could survive in a world with such deadly creatures, would be if the flying reptiles were intelligent enough to keep the humans around as slaves, pets or worshippers. And this is why all of the dragonslayer books, games and art are just so much childish rubbish, your god-complex notions included.
Unlike you, I have never once claimed that 'magic' or 'dragons' were real, but simply demonstrated that if a real creature with the many attributes given to the mythic dragons of popular literature actually existed, it would make them such incredibly dangerous predators that early humans wouldn't have a chance against them. Many credible scientists have said as much if simply theropod dinosaurs survived the KT event, let alone something like a flying T-Rex with human intelligence and a built-in, organic flamethrower.
In fact, if perhaps the closest thing to a real dragon in the fossil record existed in the time of early man, the huge Azarchid Pterosaurs like Quetzalcoatlus, they would have likely gobbled them up to extinction Australopithecus and similar diminutive hominids with the same efficiency as a heron would a rat or squirrel - no need at all for flaming breath too, (although several scientists have come up with plausible ways such a thing would be biologically possible). So the only way humans could survive in a world with such deadly creatures, would be if the flying reptiles were intelligent enough to keep the humans around as slaves, pets or worshippers. And this is why all of the dragonslayer books, games and art are just so much childish rubbish, your god-complex notions included.
Yes, that's because many writers intelligently concede that humans would otherwise never stand a chance defeating them. But like you say, magic is stupid and unrealistic. I can enjoy this authors writing because there is little or no magic in most of the stories, and for the most part, he understands it would be extremely difficult for humans without magic to harm them. Though what I still find unbelievable is the fact he would believe any human would try to kill a dragon when the retaliation would be so severe if they should fail, or if the intelligent dragons of his writings had friends or relatives that would avenge the dragon which humans have somehow killed or injured. Such intelligent dragons could wipe out an entire city where the dragon killer came from, which would send a message to humans to never attempt such a thing again. But logically, these medieval tech worlds would likely never exist along with large intelligent dragons, for they would recognize the potential, eventual threat of these intelligent primates, and by necessity exterminate them centuries earlier or keep them subdued and too primitive to ever be a threat.
Technically, a surviving, non-magical pterosaur or similar flying reptile would be a 'dragon' to ancient and medieval people so this is an interesting concept for stories. As to your comment that would be unsuccessful at hunting humans, some large raptorial birds commonly prey on monkeys and they too, watch the skies for these predators. One anthropologist has postulated that the worldwide belief land fear of dragons stems from deep rooted instincts of our much smaller and more vulnerable hominid ancestors whose primary predators were large eagles, felines, and snakes - and dragons, in a way are a composite of all three terrors.
Also imagine dragons as nocturnal creatures as the typical, elliptical eyes they usually have implies. With night vision and attacking on the darkest nights, they would be very hard to see in the sky.
Technically, a surviving, non-magical pterosaur or similar flying reptile would be a 'dragon' to ancient and medieval people so this is an interesting concept for stories. As to your comment that would be unsuccessful at hunting humans, some large raptorial birds commonly prey on monkeys and they too, watch the skies for these predators. One anthropologist has postulated that the worldwide belief land fear of dragons stems from deep rooted instincts of our much smaller and more vulnerable hominid ancestors whose primary predators were large eagles, felines, and snakes - and dragons, in a way are a composite of all three terrors.
Also imagine dragons as nocturnal creatures as the typical, elliptical eyes they usually have implies. With night vision and attacking on the darkest nights, they would be very hard to see in the sky.
1. Your assumption about brutal revenge assumes both that this species has social ties binding enough to feel so vengeful, which they do not, and assumes they would know the cause, which again is an assumption.
2. "They would recognise the potential" If you cannot see the logical hole in assuming a dragon that has never used tools, or weapons will predict the path of human technology better than humans can, enough to foresee some threat in the species they eat, then I really wish you'd stop, run through your arguement logically, and reassess
2. "They would recognise the potential" If you cannot see the logical hole in assuming a dragon that has never used tools, or weapons will predict the path of human technology better than humans can, enough to foresee some threat in the species they eat, then I really wish you'd stop, run through your arguement logically, and reassess
My specific criticisms of your stories are solely based on the behavior you have given your dragons.
1. You have clearly made them intelligent enough to think of ways to protect themselves and they would already have the instinct for self preservation.. Even if the dragons were devoid of all emotion, (and yours clearly are not), they are demonstrably intelligent enough to come up with novel ways to deter humans from bothering them. A very obvious one would be "you humans try to kill me or succeed in killing one of my offspring and I will destroy you city. The worth of one dragon life is worth 10,000 humans." Humans understand these things, and would and those residing in the vicinity of dragons would likely eliminate any human adventurers of revenge seeker from molesting the local dragons because they don't want to die.
2. In this very story you present a dragon extremely interested in human technology. Great developments in human weaponry can occur in the span of a few years during times of conflict and long lived dragons could easily see the danger of allowing humans to go unchecked. Your own stories have showed some dragons with the intellect to keep the humans in their region at a primitive level and to portray themselves as gods to them. These are your most intelligent dragons, and will likely never starve to death in sight of human villages which they refuse to attack, like some of your more foolish dragons. I can't imagine these dragons are very plausible though.
1. You have clearly made them intelligent enough to think of ways to protect themselves and they would already have the instinct for self preservation.. Even if the dragons were devoid of all emotion, (and yours clearly are not), they are demonstrably intelligent enough to come up with novel ways to deter humans from bothering them. A very obvious one would be "you humans try to kill me or succeed in killing one of my offspring and I will destroy you city. The worth of one dragon life is worth 10,000 humans." Humans understand these things, and would and those residing in the vicinity of dragons would likely eliminate any human adventurers of revenge seeker from molesting the local dragons because they don't want to die.
2. In this very story you present a dragon extremely interested in human technology. Great developments in human weaponry can occur in the span of a few years during times of conflict and long lived dragons could easily see the danger of allowing humans to go unchecked. Your own stories have showed some dragons with the intellect to keep the humans in their region at a primitive level and to portray themselves as gods to them. These are your most intelligent dragons, and will likely never starve to death in sight of human villages which they refuse to attack, like some of your more foolish dragons. I can't imagine these dragons are very plausible though.
1. Not emotionless, just not pack orientated. To you, intelligence plus self preservation equals ingenuity... but ingenuity is bred of hardship. That's true for evolution, selection pressure speeds the process, or kills the species. And as a historian of weaponry, surely you could agree it is when humans are the most... under pressure of death that they discover new solutions. Primarily I'm thinking of the tech boom that seems to follow wars. Intelligence and inventiveness are not the same thing.
2. you talk very casually of dragons swaggering down, threatening all of humanity, then swaying off. I have two main issues with that. Firstly, dragons are on top of the food chain, but that's a state of vulneability for an obligate carnivore. If the food situation changes drastically, it's the alpha predators that die first, or second if the food situation came about from a species dying. I write them as intelligent enough to realise that they cannot slaughter lightly, or else they die. Secondly, the perception of threat. I find it hard to believe that dragons will see humans as a serious threat, unless it is proven to them. Why would they? But, consider this. If humans did manage to kill a dragon, and dragons care about not dying, surely, intelligent as they are, it might cross their minds to be wary, and careful, not brash and fiery. Because if somehow, by means they cannot know since they weren't there, humans managed to prey on their predator, I imagine they'd be thinking... what did they do? How did they do it? If they realised humans were a threat, actually a threat. I imagine their intelligence would bid caution. Besides, I write my dragons with a certain respect for nature. Mostly for the very reason mentioned in this point. Their size but also, fragility atop the spire of the food chain, with a long way to fall, does not afford them the luxury of such barbaric reactions. Or, that's how I see it from an ecosystem standpoint.
3. Chandra is the exception, not the rule, as I thought I was making exceptionally apparent. I thought it would be amusing to make a dragon with a hoarding problem as a parody of the overdone tale.
4. Again, I'm unsure why you think dragons would supress human technology, because I can't see them seeing it as a threat. I don't see a crow using sticks to get food out of trees, for example. They see humans throwing rocks and poking prey with sticks. A shrug seems the most likely answer. And placing themselves as gods? They'd need to know a lot about human society to even get the idea, I'd think. Besides, it's a leap to assume a dragon would even consider the idea. It's sort of like gorillas. No tool use, they can break nuts with their hands, so why learn to use a rock? Why even think of other ways of solving an easy problem. I would think dragons would fall into a similar pattern. If they can do anything they like personally, why even consider enslaving a species?
5. You would find the idea of a dragon having a sense of pride foolish, I suppose. Wise humans do not rip into anthills, no matter how easily they can eat ants. Same for dragons with villages. I'm still eternally surprised you can't see that point. Nest of humans equals either a threat to life, or if nothing else, a near certainty of pain. It's just common sense... but I suppose common sense is foolish too.
2. you talk very casually of dragons swaggering down, threatening all of humanity, then swaying off. I have two main issues with that. Firstly, dragons are on top of the food chain, but that's a state of vulneability for an obligate carnivore. If the food situation changes drastically, it's the alpha predators that die first, or second if the food situation came about from a species dying. I write them as intelligent enough to realise that they cannot slaughter lightly, or else they die. Secondly, the perception of threat. I find it hard to believe that dragons will see humans as a serious threat, unless it is proven to them. Why would they? But, consider this. If humans did manage to kill a dragon, and dragons care about not dying, surely, intelligent as they are, it might cross their minds to be wary, and careful, not brash and fiery. Because if somehow, by means they cannot know since they weren't there, humans managed to prey on their predator, I imagine they'd be thinking... what did they do? How did they do it? If they realised humans were a threat, actually a threat. I imagine their intelligence would bid caution. Besides, I write my dragons with a certain respect for nature. Mostly for the very reason mentioned in this point. Their size but also, fragility atop the spire of the food chain, with a long way to fall, does not afford them the luxury of such barbaric reactions. Or, that's how I see it from an ecosystem standpoint.
3. Chandra is the exception, not the rule, as I thought I was making exceptionally apparent. I thought it would be amusing to make a dragon with a hoarding problem as a parody of the overdone tale.
4. Again, I'm unsure why you think dragons would supress human technology, because I can't see them seeing it as a threat. I don't see a crow using sticks to get food out of trees, for example. They see humans throwing rocks and poking prey with sticks. A shrug seems the most likely answer. And placing themselves as gods? They'd need to know a lot about human society to even get the idea, I'd think. Besides, it's a leap to assume a dragon would even consider the idea. It's sort of like gorillas. No tool use, they can break nuts with their hands, so why learn to use a rock? Why even think of other ways of solving an easy problem. I would think dragons would fall into a similar pattern. If they can do anything they like personally, why even consider enslaving a species?
5. You would find the idea of a dragon having a sense of pride foolish, I suppose. Wise humans do not rip into anthills, no matter how easily they can eat ants. Same for dragons with villages. I'm still eternally surprised you can't see that point. Nest of humans equals either a threat to life, or if nothing else, a near certainty of pain. It's just common sense... but I suppose common sense is foolish too.
Ah, but the Nazis were still only other men. If something like a gigantic, powerful, talking, flying, dragon told humans they he was a god, they certainly would believe it, proof being that many human cultures had dragon gods, and as far as we know, without even having to be real. And given the fact that they indeed worshipped what were likely imaginary dragons, they would have certainly worshipped living ones if they existed and told the humans they were gods. It would seem logical that intelligent, enterprising dragons would be quite happy to go along with it. The stories of the ancient gods showed them to often have all of the same faults as men, so dragon gods would hardly have to remain on their best behavior to still be worshipped, just being so impressive was enough. This is all the more reason to dismiss the fairytale dragonslaying nonsense..... for no human would dare oppose 'the gods' especially ones that appeared so fearsome. Think of all the terrible things which according to the Bible, Yahweh did to punish his own followers, yet he was still worshipped out of fear. It is perhaps no coincidence that this deity was described spewing fire from his mouth, smoke from his nostrils, had huge wings, demanded cattle, sheep and first born children as offerings, hoarded gold, and ordered Moses to build an idol of a flying and fiery serpent to worship, and it was for centuries (or so says the Bible). This is the stuff they never told you about in Sunday School.
Again, a reptile who gets bitten by snakes, has a reason to have poison resistance. Your assumption that dragons would have it, is based on them being reptiles. That isn't scientifically sound. So there's one comment of yours I've disproven. Actually, look at every comment you've made, and you'll find I've provided evidence you cannot contredict that suggests you're quite incorrect.
Listen to yourself. This story didn't have anything about "dragonslayers" yet you brought up your favourite rant. That's all it is. You're here to rant, rant about how hopelessly brainwashed we two scientists are. You who so casually assume we haven't thought things through. I suppose you never pause and think, why do biologists keep telling me I'm wrong...
Why don't I start with this last comment of yours and everything that's wrong with it... though I don't know why I bother. You'll not respond to a single point, you'll just dismiss it out of hand and continue raving your no evidence arguement. If you'll stop assuming for a moment that dragons would be so moronic to obliterate the lands and prey of their territory and seal their own fate... and stop assuming that these dragons will psychically know when a neighbouring dragon dies, and why, will be able to forensically determine the cause, and then feel the compulsion to avenge their territory rival... you're still dealing with a huge beast. Like most sufficiently large creatures, their own size is their worse enemy. Heck, we're stretching the rules of biology just having dragons exist at all. Their size and wingspan would require biological materials not known to science just to be able to fly. They're not immune to pain, they're unlikely to be immune to much in the way of poison, and in nature, every wound can end up fatal, just from infection. There's no doubt a dragon has an advantage over a human, many humans. But there's no reason to assume they would try and purge humanity, nor enslave them, if only because they'd be unlikely to see humans as a threat, nor humans have anything they need.
I've never claimed to know a great deal about historic weaponry, although I do know biology, which you have demonstrated you know nothing about. I'm not sure why you assume dragons would be impregnble. Flight is a big adaptation, they're likely to be closer to birds than reptiles in terms of fragility. But frankly in the end the most damning point is that you condemn all interpretations but your own of dragons. And I can tell you there isn't a book in science of history that describes them and their features in irrefutable detail. Of course all of this has been mentioned time and again. The moment anyone bothers pointing out that your logic doesn't hold water gets abuse hurled their way. You're not here to debate, or consider, you're just here to press your view on anyone who sees things differently, and then blame films,games, books. I'm not really into dogmatic viewpoints. And I'm learning there's no point trying to change yours. No amount of evidence or reason or logic will change your mind. So I'm not going to bother. I don't block people, but, if you use my comment page to randomly rant again, I'm just going to delete the comment. Comment on the work itself, only express views if you intend to respectfully consider those of others, or frankly I have no space on my page for your casual abuse of anyone who doesn't live in a logical fallacy.
Listen to yourself. This story didn't have anything about "dragonslayers" yet you brought up your favourite rant. That's all it is. You're here to rant, rant about how hopelessly brainwashed we two scientists are. You who so casually assume we haven't thought things through. I suppose you never pause and think, why do biologists keep telling me I'm wrong...
Why don't I start with this last comment of yours and everything that's wrong with it... though I don't know why I bother. You'll not respond to a single point, you'll just dismiss it out of hand and continue raving your no evidence arguement. If you'll stop assuming for a moment that dragons would be so moronic to obliterate the lands and prey of their territory and seal their own fate... and stop assuming that these dragons will psychically know when a neighbouring dragon dies, and why, will be able to forensically determine the cause, and then feel the compulsion to avenge their territory rival... you're still dealing with a huge beast. Like most sufficiently large creatures, their own size is their worse enemy. Heck, we're stretching the rules of biology just having dragons exist at all. Their size and wingspan would require biological materials not known to science just to be able to fly. They're not immune to pain, they're unlikely to be immune to much in the way of poison, and in nature, every wound can end up fatal, just from infection. There's no doubt a dragon has an advantage over a human, many humans. But there's no reason to assume they would try and purge humanity, nor enslave them, if only because they'd be unlikely to see humans as a threat, nor humans have anything they need.
I've never claimed to know a great deal about historic weaponry, although I do know biology, which you have demonstrated you know nothing about. I'm not sure why you assume dragons would be impregnble. Flight is a big adaptation, they're likely to be closer to birds than reptiles in terms of fragility. But frankly in the end the most damning point is that you condemn all interpretations but your own of dragons. And I can tell you there isn't a book in science of history that describes them and their features in irrefutable detail. Of course all of this has been mentioned time and again. The moment anyone bothers pointing out that your logic doesn't hold water gets abuse hurled their way. You're not here to debate, or consider, you're just here to press your view on anyone who sees things differently, and then blame films,games, books. I'm not really into dogmatic viewpoints. And I'm learning there's no point trying to change yours. No amount of evidence or reason or logic will change your mind. So I'm not going to bother. I don't block people, but, if you use my comment page to randomly rant again, I'm just going to delete the comment. Comment on the work itself, only express views if you intend to respectfully consider those of others, or frankly I have no space on my page for your casual abuse of anyone who doesn't live in a logical fallacy.
You have disproven nothing I have ever said in our comments. It is totally logical that young dragons in particular would feed on smaller vertebrate animals including poisonous snakes exactly like an alligator would, and therefore build a similar immunity to the venom. The predatory bird model also supports this, with some being specialist snake eaters, as a young dragon might easily be as well. Your dragons have been proven intelligent enough to even ingest weak amounts of the types of poisons which humans might use against them to build up an immunity. They might learn a great deal by kidnapping human healers, or in cases of friendly human dragon relationships, humans may tell them a great deal about medicines, antidotes, etc. When you make the dragons as intelligent as people for the sake of your stories, you must also realize with their great lifespan they will be far wiser of their world than you the writer are, and might pass everything they have learned to their children. Why wouldn't highly intelligent dragons learn over millions of years of interacting with their environments, the same concepts as ancient humans that some herbs and minerals would have a healing effects?. They would also know which plants are poisonous as easily as a human would. That's where I come in to question the weak parts of the stories.
I have never said that the dragons would be unrealistically impregnable. My observations are entirely based on real animals of similar appearance. A biologist studying Komodo Dragons in the wild described the tough scaly skin of these animals as 'like chainmail', tough enough to deflect the sharp talons and teeth of their rivals during mating combats, and the teeth, claws and horns of their sometimes rather formidable prey, like sharp horned deer and buffalo, and sharp tusked boar. It is logical then, that a far larger creature covered in scales (as most dragons are generally described), would have even tougher hide. It is you then, probably influenced by so much nonsensical dragonslayer lore, that you feel the scales of a dragon offer literally no protection at all (since the heroes of B fantasy must be able to kill their dragon with their spear or sword). And as I said before, dragons with the intelligence you acknowledge could very likely force humans to make them even more invulnerable with things like eye protection which they observe humans using. Chandra would not be the only dragon that is so observant. Any dragon that suffers a near miss of an arrow to an eye would see the advantage of such a thing. I am the one who uses real science to back of everything I say, all you can do is put false words in my mouth about insisting that I am claiming dragons are godlike and magically invulnerable. This has never been the case, it is simply your only, feeble response to my logical and scientific arguments.
The other thing you do not seem to understand is the concept of 'reach advantage' in hand to hand combat. Poor writers ignorant of such things pretty much put a human and dragon on an equal footing, whereas in reality, the dragon with much longer limbs, long neck and flailing tail can fatally hit the much smaller human long before the human can close within range of their own spear or sword. Also the far greater strength of the dragon is often ignored, just as the fragility of the human body. An armored and shielded human would be crushed like a bug by the downward sweep of a large dragon's paw.
The reason I have dropped some discussions was not at all because you were making a good point, but because I didn't want to humiliate you further. Chandra's greater fascination of a spear compared to a sword is a good example. With Chandra as observant as you make her, she would readily see how much more significant to the human owner and how much more complicated the sword is compared to a spear. It is because you don't understand this that you think you dragon character would think like you do. I have already mentioned how much more common a spear is, and how if your world were realistic, she would have already seen far more spears than swords as they are a common hunter's and traveler's weapon whereas the sword is far more expensive and only owned by the more elite humans in that world. She would also notice that several common farmer's implements, like pruning hooks are virtually identical to spears, except with a slightly different shaped tip. On the other hand, the observant dragon would see a sword as a far more intricately made object, often with a guard and pommel of different metals sometimes intricately decorated. The handle too, could be ivory, or plaited leather. The blade itself would generally be brighter polished and better taken care of than that of a spear, and it would be held in an elaborate scabbard, with a wood base, covered in leather that was often tooled and decorated, with metal bands and chape. It would be suspended also on a decorated belt that would also carry a dagger, often part of a set that match the sword in style, and a money pouch. understand this. She would also notice that the men with a sword would have noticeably better, more complicated clothing and appear to be the human leaders rather than followers. My advice to at least make the spear into a halberd instead was very good advice though you don't seem to grasp it.
I never rant, but if you allow somebody to insult me with lies when I am trying to help to make a better story, you should at least give me the courtesy to defend myself with a response. It also seems clear that I know a good deal more about 'biology' than either of you. Either of you have yet been able to refute the validity of any of my comments.
You have never humiliated me, Sirrush. You're telling two biologists they're wrong about biology. You make many, many assumptions. At best, your points are a "well, it could have happened this way" and sure, it could. But it could as easily not.
Honestly, that last line of your comment here, suddenly evidence is lies, and your sharp tongued abuse is defence as opposed to attack. You are someone, who is convinced your perception is the only correct one, and anything else cannot be correct. Whenever you claim science is on your side, you're making an observation which is debatably relevant at best. I'm a forensic scientist, I know what an unsubstantiated arguement is.
In short, because I have no intention to continue wasting my time with your attempts to convince me your views and only your views are intelligent, let me conclude this. I have no issue with you having your own interpretation of what dragons would, or would not do or become. But considering we're dealing with mythology, the exact tensile strength, what they would eat and resist, what ideas they would come up with in the few moments between hunts, is all debatable. There are a thousand and one options. I try to explore several, not just one. I must come to the conclusion that there is nothing in this or any world that could ever shake your immovable view that you know best about everything, or even accept or consider viewpoints other than your own. Therefore, I honestly see no point in discussing with you. You can rest assured I'll remember your view on things, and since it will never change you have no need to continue repeating it regardless of any number of different arguements and holes probed at your logic.
In short, since I don't get the impression over any of the long chats we've had that you've deigned to even consider any points I've made, and consider them instantly inferior and foolish because they do not match your own, I see no more point in arguing with a radio. Don't expect me to reply to your comments again. I see no point in devoting more time and wordcount to the comment section than to the story itself. You may comment, if you so please, although as ever I'll ask you try to comment on the story itself and not devolve into concluding any viewpoint other than your own is intrinsically childish and unintelligent.
I will otherwise continue exploring scenarios that I find interesting or amusing, in peace. It's called experimenting. You try something, learn a little here and there. As an aside, I'm really rather tired of watching you attack people who disagree with you. So in future, I'm going to try and stop these comment chains before they get out of hand. Rest assured, I'll be on the side of whoever gets an insult thrown at them first.
Honestly, that last line of your comment here, suddenly evidence is lies, and your sharp tongued abuse is defence as opposed to attack. You are someone, who is convinced your perception is the only correct one, and anything else cannot be correct. Whenever you claim science is on your side, you're making an observation which is debatably relevant at best. I'm a forensic scientist, I know what an unsubstantiated arguement is.
In short, because I have no intention to continue wasting my time with your attempts to convince me your views and only your views are intelligent, let me conclude this. I have no issue with you having your own interpretation of what dragons would, or would not do or become. But considering we're dealing with mythology, the exact tensile strength, what they would eat and resist, what ideas they would come up with in the few moments between hunts, is all debatable. There are a thousand and one options. I try to explore several, not just one. I must come to the conclusion that there is nothing in this or any world that could ever shake your immovable view that you know best about everything, or even accept or consider viewpoints other than your own. Therefore, I honestly see no point in discussing with you. You can rest assured I'll remember your view on things, and since it will never change you have no need to continue repeating it regardless of any number of different arguements and holes probed at your logic.
In short, since I don't get the impression over any of the long chats we've had that you've deigned to even consider any points I've made, and consider them instantly inferior and foolish because they do not match your own, I see no more point in arguing with a radio. Don't expect me to reply to your comments again. I see no point in devoting more time and wordcount to the comment section than to the story itself. You may comment, if you so please, although as ever I'll ask you try to comment on the story itself and not devolve into concluding any viewpoint other than your own is intrinsically childish and unintelligent.
I will otherwise continue exploring scenarios that I find interesting or amusing, in peace. It's called experimenting. You try something, learn a little here and there. As an aside, I'm really rather tired of watching you attack people who disagree with you. So in future, I'm going to try and stop these comment chains before they get out of hand. Rest assured, I'll be on the side of whoever gets an insult thrown at them first.
For the record, I do sincerely try to respond to all of your questions and retorts brought about by my constructive criticism, though it sometimes becomes difficult in these convoluted messages, and all the more so when others join into the fray. It has never been because you have somehow 'stumped' me. One important point which I see was inadvertently left unanswered in the above traffic was when you stated that dragons wouldn't risk 'punishing' human settlements in response to attacks on dragons due to the risk of severe injury or death in the attempt. What you do not seem to realize is that the dragons you created in your stories clearly have the physical ability to wreak terrible retribution without putting themselves at any risk whatsoever, and centuries of enjoying such impunity would certainly create an aura of invincibility. Dragons could burn cities and crops, destroy livestock, create famine, poison water supplies with the bodies of rotting animals, etc. without every putting themselves at personal risk as all of these things could be done from high altitudes in which they would be out of range of human weapons, or by attacking on moonless nights when they cannot be seen, and therefore cannot be hit by missile weapons This is no different than trying to fight an army with a 20th century air force with Medieval technology. It would be quite impossible. It is amazing how so many authors are unable to grasp such a simple concept. Many of course, do understand this, but give their humans inexplicable and nonsensical magical abilities to counter the obvious superiority that huge, intelligent dragons would actually have in an iron age technology world.
Even with the necessity of sleep, dragons could avoid any retaliatory attacks on their person by reposing in places unassailable to humans, or like a crocodile, sleeping in deep water where they could only be approached by boats, which they would be able to detect and sink.
Though your incredible ego prevents you from ever admitting it, (or perhaps even realize it), your own writing betrays the fact that you have taken a LOT of my criticisms, ideas and suggestions to heart even if you are unaware of it. Anyone who has read all of ,our discussions and then see the corresponding evolution of your stories can see this, and this story arc is a very good example, now including elements which I suggested that you were once adamantly against (like dragons interested in human technology and involvement in human affairs). This is why I continue to comment on your work despite the abuse I receive. Your personal attacks, those of your confederates, and the time I take to critique your work, are a small price for the enjoyment I receive from your ever more sensible and intelligent dragon stories. Most writers actually thank me for taking the time to comment on their work.
Even with the necessity of sleep, dragons could avoid any retaliatory attacks on their person by reposing in places unassailable to humans, or like a crocodile, sleeping in deep water where they could only be approached by boats, which they would be able to detect and sink.
Though your incredible ego prevents you from ever admitting it, (or perhaps even realize it), your own writing betrays the fact that you have taken a LOT of my criticisms, ideas and suggestions to heart even if you are unaware of it. Anyone who has read all of ,our discussions and then see the corresponding evolution of your stories can see this, and this story arc is a very good example, now including elements which I suggested that you were once adamantly against (like dragons interested in human technology and involvement in human affairs). This is why I continue to comment on your work despite the abuse I receive. Your personal attacks, those of your confederates, and the time I take to critique your work, are a small price for the enjoyment I receive from your ever more sensible and intelligent dragon stories. Most writers actually thank me for taking the time to comment on their work.
As noted, I'm pretty much done making corrections which seems obvious to me. Suffice it to say I chortle at the irony of the ego statement, roll my eyes at your use of the word confederates, and remind you of who began making comments personal.
And yes, I envy the sense of those writers. A polite thanks before proceeding to disregard would have saved us both a lot of time. But I agree our talks have influenced my writing. It encourages me to bring forth more of the precise details that counter your side. But I'm in the process of writing a new dragon who finds humbling a foe that never sleeps, can be in several places at once and has a canny knack for turning the world into weaponry, all while the true, brain of this foe remains out of reach, a tree in a forest as it were. He's going to be fun to the last minute detail
And yes, I envy the sense of those writers. A polite thanks before proceeding to disregard would have saved us both a lot of time. But I agree our talks have influenced my writing. It encourages me to bring forth more of the precise details that counter your side. But I'm in the process of writing a new dragon who finds humbling a foe that never sleeps, can be in several places at once and has a canny knack for turning the world into weaponry, all while the true, brain of this foe remains out of reach, a tree in a forest as it were. He's going to be fun to the last minute detail
Chandra and Zorian are like Hannah and Sid from Toy Story: one is an innocent child who dotes on her toys and the other a bitter older sibling who taunts the little one for her kindness and plays roughly with her beloved toys for the fun of it. Both of them only see a small fraction of the inner lives and workings of the enigmatic beings brought into their house, which makes the whole scenario uncanny and weirdly terrifying. Once you go into their house, you don't come out. Though it sure does make for some great stories for the rest of us.
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