Eh, I find issues in addressing a singular person in the plural.

Why though? They/them for a single person has been established in the language for a good while now.

"they"
PRONOUN

1third person plural Used to refer to two or more people or things previously mentioned or easily identified.
‘the two men could get life sentences if they are convicted’

"them"
Pronunciation /ðɛm//ðəm/

PRONOUN

1third person plural Used as the object of a verb or preposition to refer to two or more people or things previously mentioned or easily identified.
‘I bathed the kids and read them stories’.

Says nothing about singular because both are describing multiples or unknowns.

Instead of going with what people have established amongst themselves you quote a dictionary..? Seriously? What are you, an old fashioned linguist? :/

Well yes, I prefer actual word definitions rather than what people just come up with.

The people who speak the language cause it to evolve by 'just coming up with things'. English is a living language. It changes. But I see that you are unwilling to understand this and I have no desire to speak to you further.

The fact that there really are no rules on proper grammar because language is ever changing and always evolving through dialect and vernacular, someone saying "they is gone to the store" is texhnically gramatically correct.

Though, proper grammar really has nothing to with the personal preferences for what pronouns you use to identify. It gives people more cause to separate and divide themselves to pursue a sense of "self" and to cry, moan, and complain when people don't understand, purely because it's incredibly difficult to understand something people pursue without explaining.

Well I would disagree with you on the rules for proper grammar. If you go to University to learn a language they will tell you them, though it seems a little alien at the time.

My point is that I'm not going to use language that doesn't mean what it means because someone wanted to feel special.

You seem to be going a great distance out of your way to denigrate someone's preference. Maybe, rather than hitting this page with comment after arrogant comment, you could instead just choose to recognize that sometimes people who are not you feel differently about things in the world than you do and respect that.

Hey, maybe you could learn to see the world a little more like them by showing them you consider their view equal to your own and worth understanding. Maybe you could even build them up by supporting their preference rather than coming into their space to loudly hold it in contempt. After all, there's plenty of contempt to go around in this heartsick world without you injecting some more of your own here, don't you know?

You're expecting a lot from someone who's had higher education and still doesn't understand that the world is not centered around him.

I do get that, but I don't want to believe in a world where reasonably expecting gender equity and respect is seen as expecting "a lot."

This is the 21st century, after all. There's no place in this world for cisgender male arrogance to stand anymore, is there? We've moved beyond such pathology, haven't we? We shouldn't give it any quarter.

It's sadly still the world we live in because of ignorant people. I mean. Trump was made president and humans still use every excuse to hack away at each other. I wish it wasn't so, but alas..

We're in the process of moving beyond it, but we're not quite there yet.
To lift the good things up again, though, progress IS being made. It's not quick because such is the nature of changing something of this caliber, but it's absolutely happening. We just gotta hold on tight and keep at it.

*hugs* I find your words a comfort. You're exactly right, too.

*returns hug* Lets stick together and stick up for one another and the things we believe in, and one day we'll reach those goals.

You are an ignorant bigot and are hiding your hate behind bullshit. Talk to one goddamn linguist in your life and they'll tell you how wrong you are.

But you don't care about grammar, you just want to spread hate. that's not okay and you're going to be reported.

I know I'm late to this but they also just cherry-picked the definition anyway... https://orig00.deviantart.net/aaaf/.....ng-dc18hvw.png

Glad they're gone, though it sucks Jagal had to go and make an all-new ID because of this crap.

I recenltly had a gender non-binary student who asked to be addressed as they/them -- and as an English professor felt the dissonance between singular/plural quite a bit, although I supported their identity. Until I did a bit of research. Turns out -- if you go back to Early Modern English, "they" was originally both singular AND plural -- and served as a word that de-gendered both, a word many other languages have but English no longer does. It is only in more recent codifications of the language that "they/them" has become exclusively singular.

Language, English included, is always in flux. We don't speak they way we did in the medieval eras, or during the Renaissance, or --- really --- how we did in the 1980s! Language is a communication tool that changes. To pretend that doesn't happen or that shouldn't happen ignores the entire history of human linguistics. :)

b l e s s
I'm glad someone gets it! It's interesting that it's not an entirely new development, but has in fact existed once before! :D
And thank you very, very much for being respectful despite the fact that it felt off to you. It's very appreciated.

In "old English" and modern English "they and them" are only used when the sex of the person is unknown.

Even if that were historically true, it only supports the original point. We can elect to use nongendered language because either we are uncertain about someone's gender identity or because they have indicated that they understand themselves to be more gender fluid. But I'm not here to offer a lecture. Just thought you might find the possibility curious, maybe even worth investigating. I found the history of the use of supposed plurals as singulars to be fascinating and useful. I continue to find re-acceptance of this interesting, as well, as it becomes standardized in major news media stylebooks, etc.

Jagal, I apologise if this thread has caused you grief. Thank you for being brave enough to share your pronoun uses here, knowing that not everyone would be supportive. And thank you, too, from a cisgendered person who deeply appreciates how open you are to people who are trying to learn and wrestling with hundreds of years of perception and even "education."

I have reported your harassment of Jagal to the moderators. I hope you're happy. I'd advise apologizing ASAP.

Transphobia is not acceptable here.

Good idea. I'll report this user too.

You is a plural pronoun. Please stop using it in the singular if you are going to be so up in arms, you bigoted, transphobic monster.

Singular they has been used by all the great writers of English for hundreds of years including Austen, Shakespeare, and it's even in the King James Bible.

What you are doing is hating on trans and non-binary people and using "grammar" as an excuse. You are a disgusting transphobe and you are being rude as hell to Jagal and you can go the fuck to hell you fucking bigot.

Educate yourself. We're not going to do the work for you it's just one fucking google click away. And apologize to Jagal this instant for being such a bigoted fuck.

Thank you for help, seriously. But at this point, I really don't need to listen their apologies :'D why would I care about some bigots when there's so many amazing people around!

I just got really upset they flooded your comments on this beautiful and important piece with that.

I use they or she pronouns myself so am basically in the same boat with you!

High five! Thank you again~

Bless your heart for helping us protect Jagal

Dude, I don't even know what to say, I literally gave you the gendered option you asked me for. It's your choice. It doesn't hurt one bit not to attack people over small things like that, wow.

Guess that's the only comment here I'll respond to, I'm just out of words.

What's wrong with being "old fashioned" and using the language the way the vast majority uses it?

What's wrong is to ignore someone's polite and rightful request to be respected for the sole reason that 'well most others don't do it and it says differently in my dictionary'.

Just because a request is polite does not mean it should be granted.

What the person said was "Eh, I find issues in addressing a singular person in the plural." and later explained that he finds issues with it because that is how he understands the word to which you simply respond in the defensive, low-brow way "Seriously? What are you, an old fashioned linguist?". And then you talk about being respectful?

But I won't go further. I don't think this is the time or place for such a discussion.

I don't expect anyone to respect me out the door but good lord is it so hard to be nice to someone despite not understanding every nuance of it, when it's literally just about addressing someone differently? My linguist comment referred to the fact that a lot of older ones are those who stubbornly refuse to go with the languages evolutionary flow.
I don't think I'm interested in discussing this with you either. It's something very easy to do and it doesn't hurt you or anyone else to respect someone's preferred pronouns and if you defend those who refuse to do it, I have no desire to speak to you. Have a good day.

What is wrong with the shitty people posting here oh my god

This is really useful, I wasn't sure what you went by and now that I know I don't think I will mess up <3 These people are getting fired up over silly technical stuff, the amount of times I've used they/them to describe customers to coworkers regardless of whether I knew the gender or not is countless, and most others in my work do the same thing. It's really not hard and it's pretty much a social norm for people to do it now, people who get hung up on simple stuff like this really confuse me.

Regardless, don't listen to them, there are ton of us that got your back!

Well people are upset because at the moment other people who support this use of language are using the government as a clubbing arm against people who disagree or don't get it.

Also in general people don't like being dictated to on how to use language.

Well telling people that their way is wrong because you went to higher education and they taught you a formal way of speech doesn't exactly help the manner either. Yeah, they/them in formal speech is plural, but universities don't dictate the way speech changes over time, the regular populace does. It's why Australia and the UK have much different slang and terms for things than the US does, because their populace decided to start using these words differently than what was originally used. Taking schooling for linguistics is awesome, I think it's an interesting field to study, but I feel that just within a few years things change so much that some of what gets taught becomes moot, which is when research is needed to look into the populace and decide if some rules need changing to accommodate what is actually being used.

Your goverment isn't my goverment. And I'll never be able to come out in my own country thanks to kind people like you. Thx.

No one dictates you, don't you see the he/him right there

Entitled tunnelvisioning americans being tunnelvisioning entitled people, as usual.

You are a bigot. Go away. You need to be removed from this site.

Some people on here are incredible, aren't they? 'Nuh-uh I'm not gonna use your pronouns because my dictionary says it's not right'
Addressing everyone you meet at with with they/them is simply being respectful because you never know who might identify differently than what you might believe to have seen/heard.

I don't even know what to say, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm not able to type anything else after what I've read but I really do appreciate your help.

Jesus Christ this is surely not something I've expected
I don't even know how to respond to what happened here brb having an panic attack like the special snowflake it seems i am
wow

Yeah, I feel it too. *hugs*

language changes, we're inventing and repurposing words all the time
block these turds and move on

also here is a thing you may like!

I've always found 'they' a very natural pronoun for gender, and always use it unless I know specifically otherwise. Just wanted to let you know there are plenty of people who have no trouble referring to you as them.

Wow, where's the problem

The language constantly evolves and changes; it's the language that has to adjust to the culture and people, not the other way around. Especially now, when with every single day we know more - both in the meaning of constant technical discoveries AND psychology/biology/medicine.

Like, you're not asking for the title The God of Pencils or anything, but to use a simple "they" or "he" :P it's not so difficult, truly. Why do people need to make a drama out of the simplest things?
I am here for you. And I'm sure the most of your watchers are here for you and will respect your simple request.

Jag I use they too and so do both my main sonas and it's a constant struggle. People are shitty and I'm sorry that one shitwaffle on here thought it would be appropriate to comment. Just block them and be done with it. Anyone who goes out of their way to harm people isn't worth your time. Even if someone doesn't agree with it doesn't mean they shouldn't be respectful.

I will never be able to comprehend why people go out of their way to belittle someone else's beliefs or opinions about themselves. Trying to dictate someone else's life based on your own experiences is like trying to make someone who is lactose intolerant digest milk by "trying harder" because other people can.

You are the one who dictates who you are, regardless of spite, and I choose to respect your beliefs and pronouns.

No problem Jag! <3

Funny, I wasn't attempting to be rude and I didn't call anyone a "shitwaffle". I guess that's more motivation to not listen to anything you say or use your "pronouns".

You done?

Feel free to just unfollow me dude, if you don't see what was rude about what you've said then it's your problem, not mine.
I was gonna to make this longer but nah, I just really don't have the time and strenght to do it, cheers, see ya

Leave Jagal alone for goodness sake and go bath in your protein-rich vegan bigotry, nobody cares for your bullshit at this point. You can try to hide your ignorant, shitty and transphobic behaviour behind being 'factual' and 'polite' all you want, everyone knows you're awful either way.
Just fucking leave and never come back. Nobody here wants you anywhere near THEM.

Love both sonas and still got the mad respect for ya' despite the small number of doofs who ain't with the times, stay classy jagal~ <3

feel free to unfollow me and go somewhere far, far away then :)