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More from Kelaiah
Last night, I was in a conversation with av-marten on DA, and we got on the subject of Ruggan Bor's defeat at the end of "Taggerung." That conversation inspired me on two things regarding the golden fox:
1) make a drawing of him, as seen above, haha; and
2) how I would re-do the end of "Taggerung", because a lot of fans felt cheated by it. I am one of them, because it seemed such an unceremonious way to end everything. Granted, there were some things that I liked, such as Ruggan's introduction (of course) and Gruven's death, not to mention Russano the Wise turning up to pay his respects to Cregga. But then there was the way how Ruggan was built up so much as a formidable creature, so much so that he seemed quite capable of maybe being a match to Deyna/Tagg and conquering Redwall Abbey. And what do we get?
Russano shows up, Ruggan (albeit wisely) lays down his sword before the Badger Lord, and the whole vermin horde is forced to crawl allll the way back to where they came from, with Ruggan Bor at the rear.
Now, had Ruggan been around more or less since the beginning of the tale, then maybe this ending would have been more satisfying. But instead it feels like a letdown; this awesome character gets introduced and he doesn't get to *do* anything - well, aside from putting the audience out of its misery by offing Gruven. Mwaaahahahahahaaa!
But how would I change this? Simple:
When Russano comes up with his army of hares, Ruggan Bor greets the badger cheerfully (he's still gleeful from becoming the new Taggerung), and its revealed that the fox and Badger Lord have already met. They're old acquaintances, and have a deep respect for one another (in this version, it should be noted, Ruggan's more of a protector of his tribe than a pillager; plus it was Gruven who killed Antigra, just to make the annoying stoatwife's death more fittingly ironic and to keep Ruggan's own paws clean... ish. He's still the one who kills Gruven, but that's overlooked ;) Heh heh heh).
It is further stated that Ruggan never had any intention of trying to conquer Redwall in the first place. His horde and himself were merely celebrating their leader's new status as Taggerung when they were raising up a cheer.
After Russano says what he's doing here, he asks if Ruggan might be invited into the abbey as well, as Russano's own guest. Abbess Mhera, after a moment's hesitation, grants her permission. So we get a scene of Russano kneeling before Cregga's grave with Mhera, Filorn, Deyna, Nimbalo and Ruggan standing behind him. When Russano says he'll be leaving soon, Ruggan says he will take his tribe and leave at the same time, but Abbess Mhera won't hear of it. She insists that both armies stay and be welcome to the abbey's charity (though both fox and badger do point out both their armies will cause quite a strain on that charity, heh heh).
But anyway, the point would be to bring the story more or less full circle: it starts with a ferret lovingly adopting an otter, and it ends with a horde of vermin being made guests at Redwall Abbey. Plus, Ruggan's appearance is so brief anyway, why not have him go down as the first warlord to ever make relative peace with the Redwallers? It would signify a hopeful future for Mossflower and its inhabitants. :)
~~~
As for the pic itself, I had to re-draw this several times before I came up with something I found satisfying. I based Ruggan's pose off of the one in the book, as well as used this pic of Badrang for the full-body view: http://kelaiah.deviantart.com/art/N.....Pose-129886532 I also kept with what the book described Ruggan looked like, although I had to improvise on a few parts, such as what his tattoos, cloak and kilt were shaped like, as well as whether he'd have a white tailtip or not (the book stated he had no *black* tailtip, which is odd since I don't believe foxes have black tailtips anyway - correct me if I'm wrong, of course).
For the cloak, I went with what was drawn in the book, along with googled images of the type of cloak BJ described. I made the kilt v-shaped to give him a sharper edge, and based the tattoos again loosely off the pics in the book. It did say that Ruggan had yellow circles on his cheeks, but I ended up making them tear-shaped partly due to how the book's pic looked, and partly because I thought it would have given him a softer side that went along with my alternate version.
Ruggan Bor © Brian Jacques
1) make a drawing of him, as seen above, haha; and
2) how I would re-do the end of "Taggerung", because a lot of fans felt cheated by it. I am one of them, because it seemed such an unceremonious way to end everything. Granted, there were some things that I liked, such as Ruggan's introduction (of course) and Gruven's death, not to mention Russano the Wise turning up to pay his respects to Cregga. But then there was the way how Ruggan was built up so much as a formidable creature, so much so that he seemed quite capable of maybe being a match to Deyna/Tagg and conquering Redwall Abbey. And what do we get?
Russano shows up, Ruggan (albeit wisely) lays down his sword before the Badger Lord, and the whole vermin horde is forced to crawl allll the way back to where they came from, with Ruggan Bor at the rear.
Now, had Ruggan been around more or less since the beginning of the tale, then maybe this ending would have been more satisfying. But instead it feels like a letdown; this awesome character gets introduced and he doesn't get to *do* anything - well, aside from putting the audience out of its misery by offing Gruven. Mwaaahahahahahaaa!
But how would I change this? Simple:
When Russano comes up with his army of hares, Ruggan Bor greets the badger cheerfully (he's still gleeful from becoming the new Taggerung), and its revealed that the fox and Badger Lord have already met. They're old acquaintances, and have a deep respect for one another (in this version, it should be noted, Ruggan's more of a protector of his tribe than a pillager; plus it was Gruven who killed Antigra, just to make the annoying stoatwife's death more fittingly ironic and to keep Ruggan's own paws clean... ish. He's still the one who kills Gruven, but that's overlooked ;) Heh heh heh).
It is further stated that Ruggan never had any intention of trying to conquer Redwall in the first place. His horde and himself were merely celebrating their leader's new status as Taggerung when they were raising up a cheer.
After Russano says what he's doing here, he asks if Ruggan might be invited into the abbey as well, as Russano's own guest. Abbess Mhera, after a moment's hesitation, grants her permission. So we get a scene of Russano kneeling before Cregga's grave with Mhera, Filorn, Deyna, Nimbalo and Ruggan standing behind him. When Russano says he'll be leaving soon, Ruggan says he will take his tribe and leave at the same time, but Abbess Mhera won't hear of it. She insists that both armies stay and be welcome to the abbey's charity (though both fox and badger do point out both their armies will cause quite a strain on that charity, heh heh).
But anyway, the point would be to bring the story more or less full circle: it starts with a ferret lovingly adopting an otter, and it ends with a horde of vermin being made guests at Redwall Abbey. Plus, Ruggan's appearance is so brief anyway, why not have him go down as the first warlord to ever make relative peace with the Redwallers? It would signify a hopeful future for Mossflower and its inhabitants. :)
~~~
As for the pic itself, I had to re-draw this several times before I came up with something I found satisfying. I based Ruggan's pose off of the one in the book, as well as used this pic of Badrang for the full-body view: http://kelaiah.deviantart.com/art/N.....Pose-129886532 I also kept with what the book described Ruggan looked like, although I had to improvise on a few parts, such as what his tattoos, cloak and kilt were shaped like, as well as whether he'd have a white tailtip or not (the book stated he had no *black* tailtip, which is odd since I don't believe foxes have black tailtips anyway - correct me if I'm wrong, of course).
For the cloak, I went with what was drawn in the book, along with googled images of the type of cloak BJ described. I made the kilt v-shaped to give him a sharper edge, and based the tattoos again loosely off the pics in the book. It did say that Ruggan had yellow circles on his cheeks, but I ended up making them tear-shaped partly due to how the book's pic looked, and partly because I thought it would have given him a softer side that went along with my alternate version.
Ruggan Bor © Brian Jacques
Category Artwork (Digital) / All
Species Vulpine (Other)
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File Size 33.9 kB
Agreed. I didn't mind Russano turning up in the end, because it meant Cregga's adoptive son came and paid his respects, and that's really sweet. But the way how Ruggan Bor was described and shown, he seemed way too important and powerful to be just, as you said, a "bonus bad guy." Not only that, but a lot of his actions and general disposition seemed more like a stern tribal leader as opposed to a warlord. And what with "Taggerung" being about an otter raised by vermin, having him turn out to be a "nice guy" (so to speak, haha) seems fitting for the book's theme.
More exceptions than you think:
"Redwall" - it is mentioned Methuseleth was friendly with some "traveling foxes" who would never think of harming the old mouse; while Colin Vole is depicted as an utter coward
"Mossflower" - Martin and company rescue an old searat from being eaten by birds, though their efforts are in vain as the creature was too old and frail to survive the attack, and yet Martin called the rat "friend" and they gave him a decent burial; plus there's Gingivere and Sandingomm who became friends and allies to the woodlanders; and at the end, the vermin were commenting about decent the woodlanders were to them, comparing their acts to the cruel Tsarmina and Bane; and of course there's Ashleg who decided to head south in search of a quiet, peaceful life
"Mattimeo" - Skan the shrew and a few lackeys purposely sabotage Matthias & Co's quest to rescue their children just because Skan wanted to be the new Log-a-Log
"Mariel of Redwall" - Pakkatugg the squirrel was a paranoid bully who treated Mariel harshly and then tried to drug her; true, he did end up helping the three hares in their last battle with the searats, but that wasn't out of a sense of wanting to help them, but to avenge himself for being taken captive by the rats
"Salamandastron" - Dingeye and Thura were actually harmless creatures and were more than capable of living peaceful lives amongst the Redwallers, it was only a tragic accident, along with their deaths, that prevented them from long and happy lives at the abbey
"Martin the Warrior" - Wulpp the searat makes friends with Brome, who spares his life during the final battle; the pygmy shrews take Martin and his friends captive, make them slaves, practically torture them, but they only free them as a favor to Martin when he saves Queen Amballa's son, although they do come to assist in the final battle; then there's the Gawtrybe squirrels, who actually try to *KILL* Martin and his friends just for the fun of it, and the only reason they help out in the final battle is because it was all a game to them, they even had to have Boldred and the Warden keeping an eye on them the whole time; plus there was Aggril the violently paranoid hedgehog who drugged Martin & Co for "invading" his area
"The Bellmaker" - Blaggut, obviously; plus when Joseph, Finnbarr and their friends made it to Southsward, the otters they encountered asked them point-blank if they were allied with Urgan Nagru - as if it were not an uncommon thing for woodlanders to ally themselves with vermin
"Outcast of Redwall" - I believe Veil meant to save Bryony in the end, and that she only said she didn't know as a way of coping with his death and fulfilling his dying wish that she return to the abbey; plus there were two vole characters who were decidedly nasty
"Pearls of Lutra" - it clearly stated Graylunk the weasel repented of all evil before he died; and Romsca the ferret obviously had a death-bed conversion thanks to her time with Durral
"The Long Patrol" - Sneezewort and Lousewort were clearly portrayed as a harmless pair of idiots
"Marlfox" - Fenno the shrew killed his own leader and then tried to kill Dippler, whom he was constantly bullying; the Gray One was a watervole, and yet he was portrayed as evil; plus the entire water rat army cheered when the Marlfoxes were defeated and gladly threw their weapons away into the lake, and made peaceful lives for themselves on the island; and Rusvul Reguba, even though he was one of the good guys, he still got a good telling off from Juniper after he, Rusvul, called his son a coward
"The Legend of Luke" - Folgrim was a cannibal, although he wasn't right in the head and only got better in the end; plus the origin of Saint Ninian's is revealed to have been built by a mousewife who an absurdly lazy and gluttonous husband named Ninian
"Lord Brocktree" - Bucko Bigbones was one of the good guys, but when he was first introduced, he very well could have been a villain and needed to be taken down a few pegs; plus, there was a scene where, when Jukka the sling threatened Fleetscut, Brocktree informed her if she didn't put her sling down he would break off her paw and feed it to her - hardly the type of talk that normally goes on between woodlanders, now, is it? ^^
"Taggerung" - Sawney Rath, a ferret, lovingly raised Tagg, an otter; not only that, but Tagg was raised during a time of peace among the Juskarath, so he actually had a pleasant time with all of them; but Nimbalo, who was raised by his own father, was abused by him, beaten and starved, and Nimbalo's mother might have run away at some point - and this is a *mouse* family we're talking about! 0_0
"Triss" - Plugg Firetail and his Freebooters were more like a family than a typical fleet of pirates, they even wept and held a funeral for when their captain died; and Grubbage the near-deaf searat was taken to live at the abbey and was well-liked
"Loamhedge" - Flinky and his gang were clearly portrayed as harmless and peace-loving, they just had the bad luck of being led by bloodthirsty, war-mongering idiots before Flinky came to his senses and took leadership on himself
"Rakkety Tam" - The squirrelking and squirrelqueen, along with their son, were clearly portrayed as horrible creatures, being absurdly self-absorbed and uncaring towards the lost lives of their own subjects; and when Tam and Doogy were first found by the Long Patrol, the hares accused them of being the ones who slaughtered the hares who had been killed by Gulo's horde; not to mention Yoofus Lightpaw was clearly a 'gray' character in that he caused trouble for both sides
"High Rhulain" - Jeefra seemed quite docile for a feral cat, and he clearly had a loving relationship with his mother, Kaltag, who went out of her mind trying to avenge his death
"Eulalia!" - the vermin who fled the battlefield with Vizka Longtooth ended up abandoning the fox when he murdered Glurma and Jungo (who also had been portrayed as a harmless, albeit stupid, vermin; Firty said Jungo never harmed anybeast); even Firty the rat, at a safe distance, gave Vizka a good telling off before leaving him for good; there were also the two ferrets, Baul and Widge, who were sparred by Gorath (one might even say he rescued them from himself, in that he struggled to keep his Bloodwrath from killing them) and claimed they never took part in any of Vizka's raids as they were forced for seasons to stay and guard the boat; and after Gruntan Kurdly was killed by the swan, his brownrats settled in the swamp to live quiet lives
"Doomwyte" - in the very beginning of the book there were the two rats, Slegg and Gridj, who fell prey to the Doomwytes (Slegg admitted he was no good at name calling because he was brought up decent, and Gridj admonished the Doomwytes for killing Slegg); and of course there's Blodd Apis the crazy hedgehog lady who cheerfully tried to KILL a group of woodlanders by covering them with a liquid that would attract a whole flock of wasps
"The Sable Quean" - Vilaya the Sable Quean herself obviously felt deep affection for Dirva, who raised her, and she even wept when she learned of the old ratwife's death and vowed revenge on Zwilt, who had killed her; and Gliv the stoat said that she loved her mate, Lugg, and vowed revenge on Zwilt for causing his death; and there's Globby the young stoat who had the potential to be a harmless beast if not for the tragic circumstances that led to his untimely death
"The Rogue Crew" - Crumdum the stoat, who got to live the rest of his life peacefully on the shores; plus there was also Dukwina Drampik the pygmy shrew queen who bullied her husband and the males of her tribe, and even tried to abduct the female hares of the Long Patrol .
Soooo.... yeah. XD Lots more exceptions than most people seem to realize. ^^
"Redwall" - it is mentioned Methuseleth was friendly with some "traveling foxes" who would never think of harming the old mouse; while Colin Vole is depicted as an utter coward
"Mossflower" - Martin and company rescue an old searat from being eaten by birds, though their efforts are in vain as the creature was too old and frail to survive the attack, and yet Martin called the rat "friend" and they gave him a decent burial; plus there's Gingivere and Sandingomm who became friends and allies to the woodlanders; and at the end, the vermin were commenting about decent the woodlanders were to them, comparing their acts to the cruel Tsarmina and Bane; and of course there's Ashleg who decided to head south in search of a quiet, peaceful life
"Mattimeo" - Skan the shrew and a few lackeys purposely sabotage Matthias & Co's quest to rescue their children just because Skan wanted to be the new Log-a-Log
"Mariel of Redwall" - Pakkatugg the squirrel was a paranoid bully who treated Mariel harshly and then tried to drug her; true, he did end up helping the three hares in their last battle with the searats, but that wasn't out of a sense of wanting to help them, but to avenge himself for being taken captive by the rats
"Salamandastron" - Dingeye and Thura were actually harmless creatures and were more than capable of living peaceful lives amongst the Redwallers, it was only a tragic accident, along with their deaths, that prevented them from long and happy lives at the abbey
"Martin the Warrior" - Wulpp the searat makes friends with Brome, who spares his life during the final battle; the pygmy shrews take Martin and his friends captive, make them slaves, practically torture them, but they only free them as a favor to Martin when he saves Queen Amballa's son, although they do come to assist in the final battle; then there's the Gawtrybe squirrels, who actually try to *KILL* Martin and his friends just for the fun of it, and the only reason they help out in the final battle is because it was all a game to them, they even had to have Boldred and the Warden keeping an eye on them the whole time; plus there was Aggril the violently paranoid hedgehog who drugged Martin & Co for "invading" his area
"The Bellmaker" - Blaggut, obviously; plus when Joseph, Finnbarr and their friends made it to Southsward, the otters they encountered asked them point-blank if they were allied with Urgan Nagru - as if it were not an uncommon thing for woodlanders to ally themselves with vermin
"Outcast of Redwall" - I believe Veil meant to save Bryony in the end, and that she only said she didn't know as a way of coping with his death and fulfilling his dying wish that she return to the abbey; plus there were two vole characters who were decidedly nasty
"Pearls of Lutra" - it clearly stated Graylunk the weasel repented of all evil before he died; and Romsca the ferret obviously had a death-bed conversion thanks to her time with Durral
"The Long Patrol" - Sneezewort and Lousewort were clearly portrayed as a harmless pair of idiots
"Marlfox" - Fenno the shrew killed his own leader and then tried to kill Dippler, whom he was constantly bullying; the Gray One was a watervole, and yet he was portrayed as evil; plus the entire water rat army cheered when the Marlfoxes were defeated and gladly threw their weapons away into the lake, and made peaceful lives for themselves on the island; and Rusvul Reguba, even though he was one of the good guys, he still got a good telling off from Juniper after he, Rusvul, called his son a coward
"The Legend of Luke" - Folgrim was a cannibal, although he wasn't right in the head and only got better in the end; plus the origin of Saint Ninian's is revealed to have been built by a mousewife who an absurdly lazy and gluttonous husband named Ninian
"Lord Brocktree" - Bucko Bigbones was one of the good guys, but when he was first introduced, he very well could have been a villain and needed to be taken down a few pegs; plus, there was a scene where, when Jukka the sling threatened Fleetscut, Brocktree informed her if she didn't put her sling down he would break off her paw and feed it to her - hardly the type of talk that normally goes on between woodlanders, now, is it? ^^
"Taggerung" - Sawney Rath, a ferret, lovingly raised Tagg, an otter; not only that, but Tagg was raised during a time of peace among the Juskarath, so he actually had a pleasant time with all of them; but Nimbalo, who was raised by his own father, was abused by him, beaten and starved, and Nimbalo's mother might have run away at some point - and this is a *mouse* family we're talking about! 0_0
"Triss" - Plugg Firetail and his Freebooters were more like a family than a typical fleet of pirates, they even wept and held a funeral for when their captain died; and Grubbage the near-deaf searat was taken to live at the abbey and was well-liked
"Loamhedge" - Flinky and his gang were clearly portrayed as harmless and peace-loving, they just had the bad luck of being led by bloodthirsty, war-mongering idiots before Flinky came to his senses and took leadership on himself
"Rakkety Tam" - The squirrelking and squirrelqueen, along with their son, were clearly portrayed as horrible creatures, being absurdly self-absorbed and uncaring towards the lost lives of their own subjects; and when Tam and Doogy were first found by the Long Patrol, the hares accused them of being the ones who slaughtered the hares who had been killed by Gulo's horde; not to mention Yoofus Lightpaw was clearly a 'gray' character in that he caused trouble for both sides
"High Rhulain" - Jeefra seemed quite docile for a feral cat, and he clearly had a loving relationship with his mother, Kaltag, who went out of her mind trying to avenge his death
"Eulalia!" - the vermin who fled the battlefield with Vizka Longtooth ended up abandoning the fox when he murdered Glurma and Jungo (who also had been portrayed as a harmless, albeit stupid, vermin; Firty said Jungo never harmed anybeast); even Firty the rat, at a safe distance, gave Vizka a good telling off before leaving him for good; there were also the two ferrets, Baul and Widge, who were sparred by Gorath (one might even say he rescued them from himself, in that he struggled to keep his Bloodwrath from killing them) and claimed they never took part in any of Vizka's raids as they were forced for seasons to stay and guard the boat; and after Gruntan Kurdly was killed by the swan, his brownrats settled in the swamp to live quiet lives
"Doomwyte" - in the very beginning of the book there were the two rats, Slegg and Gridj, who fell prey to the Doomwytes (Slegg admitted he was no good at name calling because he was brought up decent, and Gridj admonished the Doomwytes for killing Slegg); and of course there's Blodd Apis the crazy hedgehog lady who cheerfully tried to KILL a group of woodlanders by covering them with a liquid that would attract a whole flock of wasps
"The Sable Quean" - Vilaya the Sable Quean herself obviously felt deep affection for Dirva, who raised her, and she even wept when she learned of the old ratwife's death and vowed revenge on Zwilt, who had killed her; and Gliv the stoat said that she loved her mate, Lugg, and vowed revenge on Zwilt for causing his death; and there's Globby the young stoat who had the potential to be a harmless beast if not for the tragic circumstances that led to his untimely death
"The Rogue Crew" - Crumdum the stoat, who got to live the rest of his life peacefully on the shores; plus there was also Dukwina Drampik the pygmy shrew queen who bullied her husband and the males of her tribe, and even tried to abduct the female hares of the Long Patrol .
Soooo.... yeah. XD Lots more exceptions than most people seem to realize. ^^
First off, there's a difference between "flawed" and "evil." You describe a lot of "good" characters who display negative, unpleasant, even villainous traits. That's different from being flat-out evil, willing to murder without a thought, to plunder and enslave in the name of greed and power. A squirrel might be a jerk, or a liar, or harbor a murderous grudge, but a squirrel is never going to be Cluny or Badrang levels of bad. And a rat is never going to be the hero.
Secondly, even when the series does paint its characters in shades of gray, it still advocates a certain level of segregation. "Vermin" don't seem to live peacefully with "non-vermin" even when they aren't active enemies. Gingivere lives apart from Martin and co. even after Tsarmina is defeated (after all, we never see him or his family in The Legend of Luke). Blaggut could have lived in Redwall, but chooses exile because he doesn't think he deserves to live among "decent" people. It's like the best they can hope for is to live far apart from one another and get along okay.
Finally, it bugs me that Redwall's message, quite often, is "you're either born good or born evil." Veil had no reason whatsoever to be a villain, but he was anyway, because he was a ferret. Tagg knew nothing besides villainy, but instantly refused to commit murder because otters are noble and non-murderous. After which Tagg's "loving" adoptive father instantly disowned him and tried to kill him.
Secondly, even when the series does paint its characters in shades of gray, it still advocates a certain level of segregation. "Vermin" don't seem to live peacefully with "non-vermin" even when they aren't active enemies. Gingivere lives apart from Martin and co. even after Tsarmina is defeated (after all, we never see him or his family in The Legend of Luke). Blaggut could have lived in Redwall, but chooses exile because he doesn't think he deserves to live among "decent" people. It's like the best they can hope for is to live far apart from one another and get along okay.
Finally, it bugs me that Redwall's message, quite often, is "you're either born good or born evil." Veil had no reason whatsoever to be a villain, but he was anyway, because he was a ferret. Tagg knew nothing besides villainy, but instantly refused to commit murder because otters are noble and non-murderous. After which Tagg's "loving" adoptive father instantly disowned him and tried to kill him.
First off, what you said was "Brian Jacques would never do that. He defined good and evil based entirely on species with very, very few exceptions." And the gist of what *I* was saying was that Jacques' depictions of good and evil were not totally defined by species. There were plenty of 'gray' characters from both sides, enough to make me question if he was fully committed to the whole "woodlanders are good/vermin are evil" motif.
Also, there *were* woodlanders who were willing to murder without a second thought (Fenno the shrew, he had no problem killing his own leader) and enslave in the name of greed and power (there was that one hedgehog from "The Sable Quean" who I forgot to mention in the list above; he captured a whole group of Dibbuns and forced them to be his slaves). Plus there were also Orkwill Prink's parents in "Eulalia", they were hedgehogs, and yet were renown thieves who abandoned their son. And that was looked upon as evil by the other characters.
Also, there *were* squirrels who murdered, or at least *tried* to: the Gawtrybe squirrels. They tried to kill Martin and the gang just for the fun of it. Granted, they never succeeded, but that was thanks to an intervention by Boldred and not an attack of their own consciences. And that sounds plenty Cluny/Badrang level of bad to me.
And a rat *was* a hero: Blaggut. He avenged the death of Mother Mellus and gave the Dibbuns their cup back, coming back to the abbey to face the consequences of what happened. That's pretty heroic.
As for Gingivere, he and his wife had already set up a farm to live on (in fact, its possible Sandingomm already lived at the farm and that Gingivere moved in with her), and it was used as a secondary hide-out while the woodlanders were still battling Tsarmina. And while we don't see them in The Legend of Luke, we don't see Log-a-Log either (the one who appeared in "Luke" was a different one from the one who appeared in "Mossflower"). I mean after all, Redwall Abbey isn't the only place where beasts can live in Mossflower.
And Blaggut didn't live at the abbey not because he didn't think he didn't "deserve" to live among "decent people", but because he felt too guilty about what happened to Mellus. Even if he wasn't the one who killed her, it was still his former leader who did. Heck, who *would* want to continue living on at Redwall if they were in Blaggut's position? And besides, he visited several times over the seasons.
Plus it was hinted in "Triss" that Grubbage the searat was given a place to live at Redwall.
As for Deyna and Veil, actually, there's more to both those situations than meets the eye:
With Deyna, he was, as a friend of mine pointed out, the prophesied hero/champion of the Juskarath, and he was raised by them during a time of relative peace. There were no raids, no attacks, only the rare quarrel. And everybeast (with the exception of Gruven and an insincere Antigra) treated Tagg with respect and honor. So actually, Tagg *didn't* know villainy all his life. He mostly knew decency.
As for Veil, its kind've obvious that at least some (if not most) of the Redwallers suspected him of being the son of the warlord who almost attacked their abbey. Plus, he was raised at a time when the war with Tsarmina was still in living memory through Bella. Not only that, but Veil was always the first one accused whenever something got stolen or went wrong, and even got physically abused at least once (Bunfold grabbed him by the ear at least once). Basically everybeast in the place was against Veil pretty much from the start. So a ferret surrounded by bitterness and mistrust grew up to be bad.
Another contributing factor I think think in both these scenarios is the presence of Martin's ghost - or in Veil's case, lack of. It was only after Veil's death that Martin's ghost came to Bella to announce that he would now be watching over the abbey, almost as if he didn't want what happened to Veil to happen to any other creature who came to live in Redwall (noticeably, all future vermin who came to the abbey are treated significantly better than Veil was). And with Deyna, Mhera asked Martin's ghost to keep watch over her missing brother, so its possible it was Martin's influence that kept Deyna from ever killing any opponent during the rare quarrels he experienced growing up.
Also, there *were* woodlanders who were willing to murder without a second thought (Fenno the shrew, he had no problem killing his own leader) and enslave in the name of greed and power (there was that one hedgehog from "The Sable Quean" who I forgot to mention in the list above; he captured a whole group of Dibbuns and forced them to be his slaves). Plus there were also Orkwill Prink's parents in "Eulalia", they were hedgehogs, and yet were renown thieves who abandoned their son. And that was looked upon as evil by the other characters.
Also, there *were* squirrels who murdered, or at least *tried* to: the Gawtrybe squirrels. They tried to kill Martin and the gang just for the fun of it. Granted, they never succeeded, but that was thanks to an intervention by Boldred and not an attack of their own consciences. And that sounds plenty Cluny/Badrang level of bad to me.
And a rat *was* a hero: Blaggut. He avenged the death of Mother Mellus and gave the Dibbuns their cup back, coming back to the abbey to face the consequences of what happened. That's pretty heroic.
As for Gingivere, he and his wife had already set up a farm to live on (in fact, its possible Sandingomm already lived at the farm and that Gingivere moved in with her), and it was used as a secondary hide-out while the woodlanders were still battling Tsarmina. And while we don't see them in The Legend of Luke, we don't see Log-a-Log either (the one who appeared in "Luke" was a different one from the one who appeared in "Mossflower"). I mean after all, Redwall Abbey isn't the only place where beasts can live in Mossflower.
And Blaggut didn't live at the abbey not because he didn't think he didn't "deserve" to live among "decent people", but because he felt too guilty about what happened to Mellus. Even if he wasn't the one who killed her, it was still his former leader who did. Heck, who *would* want to continue living on at Redwall if they were in Blaggut's position? And besides, he visited several times over the seasons.
Plus it was hinted in "Triss" that Grubbage the searat was given a place to live at Redwall.
As for Deyna and Veil, actually, there's more to both those situations than meets the eye:
With Deyna, he was, as a friend of mine pointed out, the prophesied hero/champion of the Juskarath, and he was raised by them during a time of relative peace. There were no raids, no attacks, only the rare quarrel. And everybeast (with the exception of Gruven and an insincere Antigra) treated Tagg with respect and honor. So actually, Tagg *didn't* know villainy all his life. He mostly knew decency.
As for Veil, its kind've obvious that at least some (if not most) of the Redwallers suspected him of being the son of the warlord who almost attacked their abbey. Plus, he was raised at a time when the war with Tsarmina was still in living memory through Bella. Not only that, but Veil was always the first one accused whenever something got stolen or went wrong, and even got physically abused at least once (Bunfold grabbed him by the ear at least once). Basically everybeast in the place was against Veil pretty much from the start. So a ferret surrounded by bitterness and mistrust grew up to be bad.
Another contributing factor I think think in both these scenarios is the presence of Martin's ghost - or in Veil's case, lack of. It was only after Veil's death that Martin's ghost came to Bella to announce that he would now be watching over the abbey, almost as if he didn't want what happened to Veil to happen to any other creature who came to live in Redwall (noticeably, all future vermin who came to the abbey are treated significantly better than Veil was). And with Deyna, Mhera asked Martin's ghost to keep watch over her missing brother, so its possible it was Martin's influence that kept Deyna from ever killing any opponent during the rare quarrels he experienced growing up.
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