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Writing DIALOGUE ~ The Secret to Proper Paragraphing
Writing DIALOGUE
~ The Secret to Proper Paragraphing ~ Once you know what your characters and doing and saying, how do you get all that down on Paper? (NOT a punctuation article.)
Putting Conversation on Paper. Everybody knows that when a new speaker speaks they get a new paragraph, right? In other words, you DON'T put two different people talking in the same paragraph. Okay, yeah, so anyone who has written any kind of fiction learns this pretty darned quick, (usually from their readers.)
What nobody seems to get is that the same goes for a new character's ACTIONS. Seriously, when a new character ACTS they're supposed to get their own paragraph -- even if they don't speak!
In short, you paragraph by change in CHARACTER -- not because they speak, but because they ACT. Ahem... Dialogue is an ACTION. In other words, the reason you don't put two different characters’ Dialogue in the same paragraph is BECAUSE you don't mix two characters' Actions. Okay?
“Wait a minute, doesn’t that cut everything into tiny bits, you know, when you cut all the dialogue away then divide up all those paragraphs?”No because Character A’s dialogue is supposed to be IN Character A’s paragraph of actions. Character B gets his own paragraph of dialogue AND actions. You divide up a story’s paragraphs by individual Character -- not by individual lines of Dialogue OR Actions.
What you definitely don’t do, is cut all the dialogue away from everything and mash all the different characters’ actions together in one messy paragraph where no one can tell who did what.
“Where the heck did THAT rule come from?”Strunk & White’s Element’s of Style, the grammar handbook.
To wit…
-- "In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."
This is often misinterpreted as "Make a new paragraph at every new line of dialogue."
Um... No. The key phrase here is "a new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
As long as the Speaker is Acting, the Speaker HAS NOT CHANGED. However, every time a new character Acts, you ARE Changing Speakers -- even if they don't talk! Therefore, each new character ACTING gets a New Paragraph, whether or not they have dialogue.
How this works...
WRONG:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. < -- Two Characters acting in the same paragraph.]
Becky mumbled, "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave it an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies." < -- this whole line is Abandoned Dialogue.]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RIGHT:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave it an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's Missing?
-- 'Becky mumbled'. <-- This is an unnecessary Dialogue tag. Once you link a character's Dialogue to their corresponding Actions, you no longer need the Dialogue tags.
If you really, really want to add that Becky mumbled her words, describe it as an action. Don't TELL us that she mumbled, SHOW us.
Example:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her voice dropped to barely a mumble. "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Original Message
"What if the next internals and action/dialogue are his, like:"
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her reaction was adorable and he couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies."
"Then can you lump those actions together?"
-- Thanks in advance -- Jas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Um... NO.
-- Remember this?
"…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
-- When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and <-- Toby’s Actions / Becky’s Actions --> Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.
Becky didn’t say anything, but she IS acting -- a blush is an action -- therefore Becky gets her OWN paragraph.
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. You named a stuffed animal?"
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.
This is incorrect too:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised.
Actions go BEFORE Reactions Toby was surprised so he commented: "You named a stuffed animal?" He didn't comment and THEN become surprised.
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"
All together now!
Original:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her reaction was adorable and he couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies."
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. You named a stuffed animal?"
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.
Her reaction was so adorable, Toby couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies?"
Original Message
"But when you do that, it looks so...choppy on the page. There's ton's of empty white space!"
-- Hates Empty Space
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, it looks choppy on the page, but its Far More Important that there is absolutely no doubt in anyone’s mind as to who is acting and who is speaking.
Another Example:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't help me. I'm fine by myself," she told him, not bothering to be polite. He looked surprised and perhaps a little hurt. She heard another voice.
"Geez, you're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?" She got to her feet and brushed herself off, glancing in the direction of the newcomer. She nearly recoiled in shock. Another handsome guy. He crossed his arms over his chest. "He was just trying to help you." He told her. She readjusted her bag and said.
"I don't recall asking for help."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By the way, once you separate each of your character's actions into new paragraphs and reconnect each character's dialogue to their actions, you won't need dialogue tags such as "said" because your character's actions are the identifiers for your dialogue.
With actions separated & dialogue attached.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't help me. I'm fine by myself." She didn’t bother to be polite.
He looked surprised and perhaps a little hurt.
A new voice called out. "Geez, you're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?"
She got to her feet and brushed herself off, glancing in the direction of the newcomer. Another handsome guy. She nearly recoiled in shock.
He crossed his arms over his chest. "He was just trying to help you."
She readjusted her bag. "I don't recall asking for help."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you truly loathe all that white space, then fill it in with more actions, description, and internal narration observations.
Original Message
But what about when someone is watching someone else, or feeling someone do something to them? -- Concerned about Observation
This seems perfectly fine, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her shake her butt.
He felt her skin move against his.
However, once you take this into account:
"…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
-- When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.
Not so fine after all. You have two people acting in the same line -- in Both Cases.
The way around this little gem of a problem, is to SHOW the event by character rather than TELL it in one lump.
You begin by dividing the actions by Character:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her.
She shook her butt and her skin moved against his.
He felt it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seems kind’a…short eh? That’s because those lines TOLD you what happened, instead of Showing you what happened, so there are all kinds of details missing. Once you add enough details to paint a whole picture…
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From his seat at the edge of the stage, he watched her.
Tall, svelte, and completely nude, she moved in close and shook her butt. The round, firm flesh jiggled enticingly against his face.
His cheeks were subjected to the most incredible, though slightly sweaty, facial massage ever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
KILL the Dialogue Tags. (Seriously.) -- When you have an action with a line of dialogue, you don't need Dialogue tags, such as "he said" -- at all. You already know through their actions WHO is speaking.
Dialogue tags are only ever needed when you don’t have any other way of identifying the speaker.
HOWEVER, if you have no other way of knowing who is speaking than dialogue tags, then you have committed the heinous crime of:
Dialogue in a Vacuum
- Also known as “talking heads syndrome.”
A book with nothing but reams of dialogue marked only by dialogue tags means that while people may be talking, there is no PICTURE. The mental movie has stopped and only the sound-track is playing. Compare it to a Radio Show with no sound effects.
I don’t know about you, but when I go to read a story, I want to SEE what I'm reading like a movie, not listen to a radio show.
Memorize this:
Readers always interpret what they read the way they want to see it -- unless you SHOW them what you envisioned.
In other words…
What CAN be misunderstood -- WILL be misunderstood. Leave Nothing to Misinterpretation.
-- Readers will ALWAYS make whatever assumptions come to mind about what they are reading. When a reader realizes that what they thought was going on -- wasn't, they'll get confused, and occasionally pissed off.
Unmarked blocks of dialogue are painfully EASY to get lost in.
I remember reading one whole page of un-tagged action-less dialogue only to find out that I had two of the characters reversed. Did I reread that whole page to figure out what was going on? Hell no! I tossed the book across the room. (In fact, it's still on the floor gathering dust bunnies.)
"But, isn't that's what 'said' and other dialogue tags are for?"
Just for the record...
-- Using dialogue tags is Not against the rules. Dialogue tags are a perfectly viable way to identify who is speaking -- it just makes that part of the story BORING. (I don't know about you, but I won't read something that bores me.)
I choose to write my dialogue without using "said" unless I am actually describing a change in voice, tone, or volume in the same paragraph. And even then, I try to avoid them. I use the speaker's actions to define who is speaking to whom.
I use ACTION TAGS.
"What the heck is an Action Tag?"
BODY LANGUAGELanguage is Visual not just a bunch of words. Watch the average conversation between two people. 90% of that conversation isn't in what's spoken, it's in what they are DOING as they are speaking. It's in their Body Language. Body-language cues the reader as to what is going on in a character’s head – in ADDITION to dialogue and internal narrative.
Action and body-language tags on dialogue are Not just for decoration.
-- Stories are Mental Movies you play in your imagination. I don't know about you, but I HATE to be interrupted when I'm involved in a good movie. If I have to stop and reread a section just to figure out what the heck is going on, I've been interrupted. One too many interruptions and I'm switching to another story -- with no intention of continuing with something that's just too much work to get through.
Action tags keep the mental Movie rolling and the MEANING of what is being said crystal clear. A small simple action can tell you right away, what's going through the speaker's head.
Don't just SAY it! ~ SHOW IT! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“I love you too.” She rolled her eyes and sighed dramatically. “Oh yes, I truly do love you.”
“I love you too.” She dropped her chin and pouted. “Oh yes, I truly do love you.”
“I love you too.” She glared straight at him. “Oh yes, I truly do love you.”
“I love you too.” She turned away and wiped the tear from her cheek. “Oh yes, I truly do love you.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY I loathe the word "said".
- To be perfectly clear, it's not JUST the word 'said', I hate ALL Dialogue Tags inclusively. I utterly refuse to use them.
Why?
- Because they're wasteful. They clutter up dialogue while slowing down actions, and they use up word-count that could be far better used elsewhere.
I don't believe in putting anything in my fiction that isn't useful. If it doesn't add to the character or the plot, it gets eradicated. Dialogue tags are too easily replaced by something that actually adds to the story, such as an action, a facial expression, a spot of description, or a character’s opinions.
Just for the record, I write extremely dialogue-heavy fiction. When I find that a dialogue tag is indeed needed in my story to identify who is talking, I see it as a red flag that indicates that all action has come to a screeching halt. Nothing is Happening other than talking; also known as: Talking Heads Syndrome.
When that happens, I find some way to fill that space with something useful to the story such as an action, a facial expression, a spot of description, or a character’s opinions -- ANYTHING other than a dialogue tag.
But those are MY feelings on the subject.
-- Your mileage may vary.
Dialogue tags ARE a legitimate form of sentence structure. When there is no other way to identify a speaker, dialogue tags are indeed a viable option.
What about Punctuation for Dialogue?
- Go here: Punctuating Dialogue Read that.
Paragraph AestheticsOriginal Message
"I suppose the issue I have is with the aesthetics of paragraphing. Though text is not comparable to a visual medium such as film, it is still something that we have to view with our eyes."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, text aesthetics -- the way the words appear on the page -- seems to be a HUGE bone of contention.
Original Message
"...The way I see it, your example suggests that I break my text up into a lot of little paragraphs. Given this understanding, in a scene rich with alternating action, it looks like I'll be left with a lot of one-line paragraphs. ...I'd greatly appreciate it if you clarified this situation. I suppose that is the trouble with having to jot down the basics, you can't expand on the little details of the rule. ^_^
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paragraph Aesthetics - Illustrated
-- The way a story appears on a standard 9.5 x 11 inch piece of paper is NOT the way to judge whether or not one's paragraphs are too long or too short. A story viewed on a browser page carries even less weight.
Why not?
-- Because Fiction is generally printed on pages HALF the size of a full sheet of paper. What appears to be a lot of short little paragraphs on the "internet page," are NOT so short or so little once you put them on the Printed page.
The standard sizes for printed Fiction are: paperback (4.25 x 6.75 inches), and trade paperback (5.5 x 8.25 inches.) Hard-cover books use the same size page as a Trade. Only coffee-table books possess printed pages anywhere near the size of a standard sheet of paper.
Visual Aids:
ALL examples are: 12 pt. Times New Roman font with somewhat 1 inch margins.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard Paperback 6.75 x 4.25
Trade paperback 5.5 x 8.25
Standard paper 9.5" x 11"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personally, I could care less what my text looks like on the page. As far as I'm concerned, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far more important to me than what the text looks like. If I have done my job well, no one will even notice the words - only the story unfolding in their imaginations.
As for internet reading, I'm completely baffled why anyone would care how it looks on the browser page. All you have to do is narrow the window and the text adjusts.
Original Message
"Also, I hope you don't mind, but did you come up with the rules yourself, through experience and trial and error, publisher's advice, or is there a handy guide I can employ? Obviously, I quite loyally follow Strunk and White, but I don't think it talks about this subject much. Is there a book that YOU use?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That question has a HUGE answer, believe it or not.
Let's start here:
"...did you come up with the rules yourself, through experience and trial and error, publisher's advice...?"
YES - to all of the above, plus editor hounding and long chats with a number of extremely well-established fiction authors. In addition, I've read a crap-load of how-to books. I'm pretty sure I own, and have practically memorized, just about every book "Writer's Digest" has put out.
My writing advice posts are the results of taking all the info I'd crammed into my head and condensing it into small bite-sized, chewable, pieces that are easy to remember and much easier to apply. Rather than waste people's time on theory, I focus on application.
As for recommended reads...
-- Unfortunately, there is no one guide that shows it all. Not One. However, there are two books I can't praise highly enough. As far as I'm concerned, they are VITAL reading for fiction writing.
SCENE & STRUCTURE by Jack. M. Bickham
THE WRITER'S JOURNEY by Christopher Vogler
-- (Google is your friend.)
There are lots of other books I could recommend, but these are the two "Must Haves" if an author really, REALLY wants to write fiction well.
Enjoy!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DISCLAIMER: As with all advice, take what you can use and throw out the rest. As a multi-published author, I have been taught some fairly rigid rules on what is publishable and what is not. If my rather straight-laced (and occasionally snotty,) advice does not suit your creative style, by all means, IGNORE IT.
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Oh, I know. I hated writing reports, but just now started writing fiction and I'm finding it much more enjoyable. It's somewhat liberating to be writing for me and not someone else. :3
The problem with writing furry stories (and especially porn) is that it's hard to find people to give honest reviews. A normal furry story has no audience, and people who read furry porn stories tend to be...easy to please. XD It's great to have to have tips like this written in a more accessible way. :D
The problem with writing furry stories (and especially porn) is that it's hard to find people to give honest reviews. A normal furry story has no audience, and people who read furry porn stories tend to be...easy to please. XD It's great to have to have tips like this written in a more accessible way. :D
I think the problem with furry stories is that no one takes them seriously. Furries are rarely seen outside of kid's stories and movies, so it's like the bulk of the trolling readers expect furry tales to be...juvenile. And no one has ever taken porn seriously.
The other problem is that most writing help articles -- don't actually help. They toss out a theory, but leave out the practical applications (precisely how to use that theory). I'm here to fix that, if I can.
The other problem is that most writing help articles -- don't actually help. They toss out a theory, but leave out the practical applications (precisely how to use that theory). I'm here to fix that, if I can.
I fully agree. If you take anthropomorphic literature, but rework it into the realms of science fiction then it can be astonishing. That has been my goal from the beginning. For 'furries' to me are uplifted animals. Which harkens back to my childhood (fawnhood?)
I grew up on the greats of science fiction like Wells, Asimov, Clarke, and Heinlein. Only recently have I started to find many books on true uplift. "Sirius by Olaph Stapledon" was by far the top 5 best stories I ever read. Lives of the Monster Dogs, Sirius, We3, the Eden trilogy by Harry Harrison, and the uplift universe by David Brin rounds them out.
Your tutorials are helping considerably, but per your recommendation I will give this one my first priority.
Thank you, for your hard work.
I grew up on the greats of science fiction like Wells, Asimov, Clarke, and Heinlein. Only recently have I started to find many books on true uplift. "Sirius by Olaph Stapledon" was by far the top 5 best stories I ever read. Lives of the Monster Dogs, Sirius, We3, the Eden trilogy by Harry Harrison, and the uplift universe by David Brin rounds them out.
Your tutorials are helping considerably, but per your recommendation I will give this one my first priority.
Thank you, for your hard work.
I thought the name sounded familiar. I have a backlog of 28 books; CJs is one of those. I picked it up a year ago, and forgot to read. It had what appeared to be a Kzin on the cover, which intreged me highly. Chanur's Legacy, is the book. I look forward to it now.
Dr. Brin is an enjoyably nice man. It's a pleasure that some authors are approachable from respectable fans. Especially one who read his uplift universe, as a fawn :)
Dr. Brin is an enjoyably nice man. It's a pleasure that some authors are approachable from respectable fans. Especially one who read his uplift universe, as a fawn :)
Well now, some of that runs contrary to the way I was taught to place dialogue! The correct method I was taught was to place all dialogue on a new line.
(for clarity, a new line starts at the left of the page, a new paragraph has a one-line space down from the end of the previous paragraph)
So you could not precede dialogue with action, though once dialogue had started it could be followed or interrupted by actions, but not change speaker. Further a change of actor could be incorporated as a direct reaction with the use of a new sentence (subject, object, action) by defining the actor. A change of speaker however needs a new line started.
Damn these different rules!
I like the way you are working, I to hate the word 'said'. The dialogue quotation marks mean someone is saying something, this is a hint using the preceding action defines the speaker easily.
I dislike however the way that paragraphs can get very broken up by characters interacting with actions rather than dialogue, I hate seeing a stream of short sentences just because actor 1 does something, actor 2 does something, actor 1 does something....
Maybe I just break the rules I decide don't suit me
(for clarity, a new line starts at the left of the page, a new paragraph has a one-line space down from the end of the previous paragraph)
So you could not precede dialogue with action, though once dialogue had started it could be followed or interrupted by actions, but not change speaker. Further a change of actor could be incorporated as a direct reaction with the use of a new sentence (subject, object, action) by defining the actor. A change of speaker however needs a new line started.
Damn these different rules!
I like the way you are working, I to hate the word 'said'. The dialogue quotation marks mean someone is saying something, this is a hint using the preceding action defines the speaker easily.
I dislike however the way that paragraphs can get very broken up by characters interacting with actions rather than dialogue, I hate seeing a stream of short sentences just because actor 1 does something, actor 2 does something, actor 1 does something....
Maybe I just break the rules I decide don't suit me
"The correct method I was taught was to place all dialogue on a new line."
Sounds like whoever taught you that was yet another victim of Strunk & White's rule being Misinterpreted. *sigh*
"In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."
In other words, one does not use a new paragraph until the Speaker CHANGES. If the next speaker is Acting, that doesn't change the fact that the speaker has Changed = new paragraph.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"...for clarity, a new line starts at the left of the page, a new paragraph has a one-line space down from the end of the previous paragraph."
That sounds like an ordinary "how to make a paragraph" rule that somehow got mixed in with 'how write on the Internet'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"...So you could not precede dialogue with action, though once dialogue had started it could be followed or interrupted by actions, but not change speaker..."
*snort* I have no idea where you got that one, but that's definitely wrong simply because people Act before they speak ALL THE TIME. Ask any martial artist. Hell, open a common paperback book.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"...Further a change of actor could be incorporated as a direct reaction with the use of a new sentence (subject, object, action) by defining the actor. A change of speaker however needs a new line started."
Nope. Change of Actor = Change of Speaker, even if they haven't spoken.
I think you need to have a long talk to whoever taught you that one, even if it IS your English teacher. I had a Long talk with mine, and man, she was soooo not happy with me when I was done with her -- because I was RIGHT.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I dislike however the way that paragraphs can get very broken up by characters interacting ... I hate seeing a stream of short sentences ..."
Paragraph Aesthetics... *sigh*
-- According to my editors, and I have 4 of them, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far more important than what the text looks like on the page.
On the other hand, lots & lots of short broken lines gives you the perfect excuse to add more description, body-language, and thought.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Maybe I just break the rules I decide don't suit me?"
-- Absolutely...! The ONLY people you need to please are your Readers. As long as they're happy with your stories, that's all that should matter.
But if you ever want to publish your work, keep me in mind. *wink*
Sounds like whoever taught you that was yet another victim of Strunk & White's rule being Misinterpreted. *sigh*
"In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."
In other words, one does not use a new paragraph until the Speaker CHANGES. If the next speaker is Acting, that doesn't change the fact that the speaker has Changed = new paragraph.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"...for clarity, a new line starts at the left of the page, a new paragraph has a one-line space down from the end of the previous paragraph."
That sounds like an ordinary "how to make a paragraph" rule that somehow got mixed in with 'how write on the Internet'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"...So you could not precede dialogue with action, though once dialogue had started it could be followed or interrupted by actions, but not change speaker..."
*snort* I have no idea where you got that one, but that's definitely wrong simply because people Act before they speak ALL THE TIME. Ask any martial artist. Hell, open a common paperback book.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"...Further a change of actor could be incorporated as a direct reaction with the use of a new sentence (subject, object, action) by defining the actor. A change of speaker however needs a new line started."
Nope. Change of Actor = Change of Speaker, even if they haven't spoken.
I think you need to have a long talk to whoever taught you that one, even if it IS your English teacher. I had a Long talk with mine, and man, she was soooo not happy with me when I was done with her -- because I was RIGHT.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I dislike however the way that paragraphs can get very broken up by characters interacting ... I hate seeing a stream of short sentences ..."
Paragraph Aesthetics... *sigh*
-- According to my editors, and I have 4 of them, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far more important than what the text looks like on the page.
On the other hand, lots & lots of short broken lines gives you the perfect excuse to add more description, body-language, and thought.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Maybe I just break the rules I decide don't suit me?"
-- Absolutely...! The ONLY people you need to please are your Readers. As long as they're happy with your stories, that's all that should matter.
But if you ever want to publish your work, keep me in mind. *wink*
>"The correct method I was taught was to place all dialogue on a new line."
>Sounds like whoever taught you that was yet another victim of Strunk & White's rule being Misinterpreted. *sigh*
Quite possibly.
>"...for clarity, a new line starts at the left of the page, a new paragraph has a one-line space down from the end
>of the previous paragraph."
>That sounds like an ordinary "how to make a paragraph" rule that somehow got mixed in with 'how write on the
>Internet'.
I added that note as I go back to the days before word processors, when a new line needed the pen or typewriter to be reset to the beginning. A new paragraph was something different. Many word processors have mixed up these terms and confuse a new paragraph with a simple forced new line function. On the Internet a forced new line is usually unnecessary, but sometimes useful aesthetically or for emphasis.
*cut out bits I will have to consider as I write and see if I can follow them!*
>Paragraph Aesthetics... *sigh*
>-- According to my editors, and I have 4 of them, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far
>more important than what the text looks like on the page.
I agree. I always aim to write in a way which I can read easily, so the words flow. Often I break a number of technical grammar rules to do that, as following the rules would require a phrase or word which does not read easily. I know that the reader will read what they *think* I wrote, not what I actually wrote, so I try to guide the reader through what they are expecting to read. I always leave it a week or more before proof reading so I've forgotten what I actually wrote when I read through. That often finds sentences where it is easy to misread a word as a different (usually similar looking) word, as I'm expecting the word to be the I read, not the word on the page. I also avoid words which are difficult to pronounce, as the reader will have to pause on that word to ensure he read it right.
>On the other hand, lots & lots of short broken lines gives you the perfect excuse to add more description,
>body-language, and thought.
When short sentences are used it normally relates to rapid actions. Timing has to play a part as well and I have criticized writers in the past for writing a good detailed scene with lots of actions and coming out with something that is way too long. I feel that if something is happening quickly that needs to be reflected in the page space allocation.
eg. In a one-on-one combat scene describe the scene first as the combatants size reach other up, not while they're trading blows and parries.
But now we're drifting off the subject!
>Sounds like whoever taught you that was yet another victim of Strunk & White's rule being Misinterpreted. *sigh*
Quite possibly.
>"...for clarity, a new line starts at the left of the page, a new paragraph has a one-line space down from the end
>of the previous paragraph."
>That sounds like an ordinary "how to make a paragraph" rule that somehow got mixed in with 'how write on the
>Internet'.
I added that note as I go back to the days before word processors, when a new line needed the pen or typewriter to be reset to the beginning. A new paragraph was something different. Many word processors have mixed up these terms and confuse a new paragraph with a simple forced new line function. On the Internet a forced new line is usually unnecessary, but sometimes useful aesthetically or for emphasis.
*cut out bits I will have to consider as I write and see if I can follow them!*
>Paragraph Aesthetics... *sigh*
>-- According to my editors, and I have 4 of them, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far
>more important than what the text looks like on the page.
I agree. I always aim to write in a way which I can read easily, so the words flow. Often I break a number of technical grammar rules to do that, as following the rules would require a phrase or word which does not read easily. I know that the reader will read what they *think* I wrote, not what I actually wrote, so I try to guide the reader through what they are expecting to read. I always leave it a week or more before proof reading so I've forgotten what I actually wrote when I read through. That often finds sentences where it is easy to misread a word as a different (usually similar looking) word, as I'm expecting the word to be the I read, not the word on the page. I also avoid words which are difficult to pronounce, as the reader will have to pause on that word to ensure he read it right.
>On the other hand, lots & lots of short broken lines gives you the perfect excuse to add more description,
>body-language, and thought.
When short sentences are used it normally relates to rapid actions. Timing has to play a part as well and I have criticized writers in the past for writing a good detailed scene with lots of actions and coming out with something that is way too long. I feel that if something is happening quickly that needs to be reflected in the page space allocation.
eg. In a one-on-one combat scene describe the scene first as the combatants size reach other up, not while they're trading blows and parries.
But now we're drifting off the subject!
"The correct method I was taught was to place all dialogue on a new line."
Sounds like whoever taught you that was yet another victim of Strunk & White's rule being Misinterpreted. *sigh*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In other words, one does not use a new paragraph until the Speaker CHANGES. If the next speaker is Acting, that doesn't change the fact that the speaker has Changed = new paragraph.
"...for clarity, a new line starts at the left of the page, a new paragraph has a one-line space down from the end of the previous paragraph."
That sounds like an ordinary "how to make a paragraph" rule that somehow got mixed in with 'how write on the Internet'.
"...So you could not precede dialogue with action, though once dialogue had started it could be followed or interrupted by actions, but not change speaker..."
*snort* I have no idea where you got that one, but that's definitely wrong simply because people Act before they speak ALL THE TIME. Ask any martial artist. Hell, open a common paperback book.
"...Further a change of actor could be incorporated as a direct reaction with the use of a new sentence (subject, object, action) by defining the actor. A change of speaker however needs a new line started."
Nope. Change of Actor = Change of Speaker, even if they haven't spoken.
I think you need to have a long talk to whoever taught you that one, even if it IS your English teacher. I had a Long talk with mine, and man, she was soooo not happy with me when I was done with her -- because I was RIGHT.
"I dislike however the way that paragraphs can get very broken up by characters interacting ... I hate seeing a stream of short sentences ..."
Paragraph Aesthetics... *sigh*
-- According to my editors, and I have 4 of them, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far more important than what the text looks like on the page.
On the other hand, lots & lots of short broken lines gives you the perfect excuse to add more description, body-language, and thought.
"Maybe I just break the rules I decide don't suit me?"
-- Absolutely...! The ONLY people you need to please are your Readers. As long as they're happy with your stories, that's all that should matter.
But if you ever want to publish your work, keep me in mind. *wink*
Sounds like whoever taught you that was yet another victim of Strunk & White's rule being Misinterpreted. *sigh*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In other words, one does not use a new paragraph until the Speaker CHANGES. If the next speaker is Acting, that doesn't change the fact that the speaker has Changed = new paragraph.
"...for clarity, a new line starts at the left of the page, a new paragraph has a one-line space down from the end of the previous paragraph."
That sounds like an ordinary "how to make a paragraph" rule that somehow got mixed in with 'how write on the Internet'.
"...So you could not precede dialogue with action, though once dialogue had started it could be followed or interrupted by actions, but not change speaker..."
*snort* I have no idea where you got that one, but that's definitely wrong simply because people Act before they speak ALL THE TIME. Ask any martial artist. Hell, open a common paperback book.
"...Further a change of actor could be incorporated as a direct reaction with the use of a new sentence (subject, object, action) by defining the actor. A change of speaker however needs a new line started."
Nope. Change of Actor = Change of Speaker, even if they haven't spoken.
I think you need to have a long talk to whoever taught you that one, even if it IS your English teacher. I had a Long talk with mine, and man, she was soooo not happy with me when I was done with her -- because I was RIGHT.
"I dislike however the way that paragraphs can get very broken up by characters interacting ... I hate seeing a stream of short sentences ..."
Paragraph Aesthetics... *sigh*
-- According to my editors, and I have 4 of them, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far more important than what the text looks like on the page.
On the other hand, lots & lots of short broken lines gives you the perfect excuse to add more description, body-language, and thought.
"Maybe I just break the rules I decide don't suit me?"
-- Absolutely...! The ONLY people you need to please are your Readers. As long as they're happy with your stories, that's all that should matter.
But if you ever want to publish your work, keep me in mind. *wink*
Hmmmm... You've really got my interest. I'm an aspiring author myself, and I'm slowly, painfully editing a novel manuscript I just finished right now. I know that my writing still needs a lot of work, though it amazes me to see how far I've come in so little time. I find I agree with 90% of what you're saying here upfront, but some of it I'm going to have to play around with. I never thought about the relations between paragraphs and actions before. I followed the new-line-for-new-speaker rule religiously, but the rest I just kind of threw however it felt right.
I'm going to read the rest of your posts, as I've never actually found such advice tailored to my needs before. Even if I don't always agree, it's always good to be aware!
I don't ever plan to follow all the rules, of course. :P
Would you mind if I asked, out of curiousity, where you've been published before?
I'm going to read the rest of your posts, as I've never actually found such advice tailored to my needs before. Even if I don't always agree, it's always good to be aware!
I don't ever plan to follow all the rules, of course. :P
Would you mind if I asked, out of curiousity, where you've been published before?
"Even if I don't always agree, it's always good to be aware!"
As I say in my disclaimer, take what you can use and toss out the rest! However, it doesn't hurt to know what the rules are BEFORE you bend them.
Where have I been published...?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Extasy Books
Loose Id Books
Mojo Castle Press
Kensington books
Not under THIS name, of course.
As I say in my disclaimer, take what you can use and toss out the rest! However, it doesn't hurt to know what the rules are BEFORE you bend them.
Where have I been published...?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Extasy Books
Loose Id Books
Mojo Castle Press
Kensington books
Not under THIS name, of course.
"Even if I don't always agree, it's always good to be aware!"
As I say in my disclaimer, take what you can use and toss out the rest! However, it doesn't hurt to know what the rules are BEFORE you bend them.
Where have I been published...?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Extasy Books
Loose Id Books
Mojo Castle Press
Kensington books
Not under THIS name, of course.
As I say in my disclaimer, take what you can use and toss out the rest! However, it doesn't hurt to know what the rules are BEFORE you bend them.
Where have I been published...?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Extasy Books
Loose Id Books
Mojo Castle Press
Kensington books
Not under THIS name, of course.
when I was a little kid I was once somewhere fed the idea that books are better than TV because you get to imagine what's going on yourself. To think that's considered bad writing!
But actually, when I read books in school I never enjoyed it when books described characters visually. Not only did I find it really boring (I still find it boring) but back then all of it went over my head.
Also when reading I think I regularly re-read stuff I just read a moment ago. If anything I take it for granted, but that's just me and most likely not the fault of the author.
anyway, I don't write, but thank you for this utterly fascinating, informative tutorial
But actually, when I read books in school I never enjoyed it when books described characters visually. Not only did I find it really boring (I still find it boring) but back then all of it went over my head.
Also when reading I think I regularly re-read stuff I just read a moment ago. If anything I take it for granted, but that's just me and most likely not the fault of the author.
anyway, I don't write, but thank you for this utterly fascinating, informative tutorial
Different readers like different things.
-- Some like lots of blanks to fill in with their own ideas, like yourself, and some like to walk into extremely detailed worlds they've never ever visited before, like what I write. And then there are some that like one kind today, but the other kind tomorrow. *shrugs*
There's no way in hell any one writer will please every single reader there is. People are just too different. However, it just so happens that an awful lot of readers seem to like the style I write in to the point that it's currently paying my rent. In light of that, I thought I'd share my popular style with anyone that cared to learn it.
-- Some like lots of blanks to fill in with their own ideas, like yourself, and some like to walk into extremely detailed worlds they've never ever visited before, like what I write. And then there are some that like one kind today, but the other kind tomorrow. *shrugs*
There's no way in hell any one writer will please every single reader there is. People are just too different. However, it just so happens that an awful lot of readers seem to like the style I write in to the point that it's currently paying my rent. In light of that, I thought I'd share my popular style with anyone that cared to learn it.
This definitely helps, especially with dialogue and paragraph structure. Your point about good books playing out like movies is something that I had thought only I experienced, but it's completely true. My favorite author of all time, Anne MacCaffrey (I know i'm spelling that wrong), writes her fiction in this way. I just finished reading The Rowan for the third or fourth time, and even though I know what's coming around the bend, the story is still like watching a movie. It never drags and always has something new to throw at me each time I read it.
Sorry sweety. This is one of the biggest secrets in the writing industry and the Main reason why 98% of most submissions are rejected on the first page. NO ONE tells anyone this stuff. It's Not in any writing book anywhere--I looked. (Well, except mine.) This is something that is only taught by EDITORS to newly accepted authors.
Guess how I found out?
If you can apply this, you'll be further ahead than MANY first time authors.
Guess how I found out?
If you can apply this, you'll be further ahead than MANY first time authors.
thank you very much for this information. I feel like I have a lot of editing ahead of me, but that I will be a better writer because of it.
You're welcome! I like helping those who want to improve on their skills.
You're right as well, they don't tell anyone this stuff.
I swear, it's like it's a conspiracy.
You're welcome! I like helping those who want to improve on their skills.
You're right as well, they don't tell anyone this stuff.
I swear, it's like it's a conspiracy.
that was excellent. something i've been stumbling and stuttering with all my life that has petty much kept me from seriously trying to put the stories in my head and in my dreams on paper.
i don't know if that means i'll ever actually do so, but definitely encouraging and helpful.
i don't know if that means i'll ever actually do so, but definitely encouraging and helpful.
Oh I nearly forgot. Have you considered self-publishing all of these tutorials into at least e-format? I've yet to find a truly useful writing book. For like you said, a lot isn't taught. Just last month I found one major key in Writer's Digest magazine; the 9 fundamental elements of story writing and I immediately saw what I was doing wrong. But is that in any of my books? No.
If you need help with this, I'll be glad to help in some aspects. Since I got my kindle, I've been awaken to all sorts of non-published fiction, especially by at least 4 people on FA, including you, and Rukis.
I'll go and start writing now (giggle.)
If you need help with this, I'll be glad to help in some aspects. Since I got my kindle, I've been awaken to all sorts of non-published fiction, especially by at least 4 people on FA, including you, and Rukis.
I'll go and start writing now (giggle.)
I will NEVER, EVER Self-Publish, under any circumstances.
-- Those who are self-published have absolutely No Legal Protection at all! They are absolutely defenseless against a publishing house who has their own set of legal lawyers.
Mojo Castle Press publishes my tutorials in paperback form, under a different name, of course.
-- Those who are self-published have absolutely No Legal Protection at all! They are absolutely defenseless against a publishing house who has their own set of legal lawyers.
Mojo Castle Press publishes my tutorials in paperback form, under a different name, of course.
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