PUNY HUMAN

Filthy little man-thing!

Haha! You're husband, huh? Cool! You did great!

Haha, yeah :b He poses for me sometimes, lets me take reference photos, which are super handy :V (And sometimes I'll pose for him and get him to take photos if I need female references :b) Thanks!

Haha good deal!

He seems very tall ^_^

Hehe, yeah, he's definitely on the tall side in real life (6'4"), although for our purposes in the game, he'll be about average :b

That is tall

It's funny, because I'm only 5'1" XD He can use my head as an arm rest :V

I'm 5'11", being the tallest woman in the crowd isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Oh, I know. Guys can be a bit intimidated by women taller than them, so if you're looking for men, they're a bit harder to find sometimes :b (Although it's funny - in theory, many men like women who are tall and leggy... until they find out they're taller than them :V) Plus being with a tall person has made me realize that being tall isn't always convenient :b Seating/leg room is always cramped, low doorways/headspace are a relevant thing, finding clothes that fit, finding cars that aren't uncomfortably small...

I have sympathy... even though I have to climb on the counters to reach anything above the second shelf in the kitchen XD

Feminine and tall seems to be ok, like a topmodel. Amazonian tall is scary to a lot of guys

My friends used to jokingly call me a viking.

In the US there's this assumption in stores that fat women are short. Tall and fat just doesn't exist I guess Finding pants that aren't high waters is fun, fun, fun.

I'm all leg anyway, to add to the fun.

But, it's fun to be a head turner from time to time, except when I feel like I want to hide in the shadows. Ain't no hiding for me, ever.

XD Yeah, I can see that. Just need to catch them and tie them down :b <3

*chuckles* Yeah. I imagine it's great being over to see over the sea of heads when you need to be able to see into the distance, or you're looking for people. Plus being tall and big means you can just MOVE through a crowd, even if people won't get out of your way.

Seriously, going to high-density areas like fairs/markets or big events is scary for me - it's like being a kid, lost in the forest of limbs, not able to see a bloody thing >_O I hold my husband's hand for more than one reason when I'm in places like that XD

As for hiding, I wonder... I once played a game of manhunt in the forest at dusk. I won :b I couldn't find a good hiding spot, so I just knelt down on the ground and put my sarong over me. And wait to be found. For over an hour. People literally walked right next to me, I thought I was gonna get stepped on, but because I wasn't people-shaped and wasn't moving, they simply failed to notice me in the dark, even with flashlights. Was pretty cool :b

I always wanted to be smaller.. shorter.. Petite. Just not freaking broad built. Be girly and dainty. Oh the fun I could have with that.

My husband picked me up and kissed me not long after we first met, I was 27 or 28 and had never been physically picked up like that. He's very strong ^_^ The things some folks take for granted

Awwww :3 ((I love being picked up by my husband >_>)) That must've been a real delight <3 Such a small simple gesture, but can be surprisingly, well, surprising!

caveman gorac make fire!

Haha, yeah, I sorta thought he looked a bit caveman-y, too :b All mostly-naked and rugged-beardy and messy-haired :b

So you took your husband, gave him Old Spice, and drew a picture of him.

XD Yes.

the one constant for human is they dont seem to have one

Yeah, why I put variability/versatility in as a racial trait :b Thought it fit :V

there's ALWAYS fuckin humans. know what'd be fun? is if this game DIDN'T have humans. star wars, long a go in a galexy far far away? HAS HUMANS?! D&D has humans, so does warhammer, it's a familiarity thing. only the adventurous choose non humans. [and the furries.] but there's always that "comfort zone" of humans. and it's not that I"m a furry and think they're kinda ugly...it's...maybe it'd be fun if there was a game, that DIDN'T make humans a viable option, or that it just...wasn't there!

that'd be pretty fun.

Yeah, a friend of mine feels the same way :b But the development team thinks the race lineup is already borderline "too exotic/not approachable enough" (I disagree)... so humans :b

*sadface*

oh well, it'd be fun if there was a rules/stats variation that put a rather sizable...handicap on humans, or shifted it so they're just...bland, weak, slow, shortlived, all things that are true from most other races' point of view.

Hm, I wouldn't say that's true. As NickTheSpaceman mentioned, humans have stellar physiological endurance capabilities - like wolves, they're not the fastest, but humans are capable of outrunning many animals - but also have versatile enough physiology to allow them to adapt to a wider variety of habitats and lifestyles than most other animals. Yes, all animals put together out perform humans, but take a single species of animal out of their favoured environment, and humans are likely able to, physiologically speaking, out-endure, out-adapt and in the end, out-survive them.

Rather than predators or prey that evolve to become adapted to specific ecological niches, specific ways of life, specific habitats, humans have evolved to be able to be able to adapt on-the-run, as it were, and supplement under-specialized-but-versatile physiology with forebrain intelligence, therefore able to get by and eventually thrive in many diverse situations and conditions.

I'm not a particular fan of humans as a species - the sight of a puppy excites me way more than the sight of a baby; a show about oryx fighting is more interesting to me than the Bachelor or Big Brother or American Idol. But saying that humans are objectively worse than other species is demonstrably, obviously untrue :b

***

That technicality aside, yeah, I wouldn't mind a game where humans WERE a weaker race, because other races were simply more advanced or otherwise "better" than them for a built-in lore reason, but only to a certain extent. Plus, from a gameplay mechanics point of view, it would be a bit stupid/pointless to put in a race that was, objectively, pointedly, more terrible and worse than every other race in every other way, and THEN to make that a core player race. I could see doing it as a statement, but... really: "I think humans are terrible. In my game, I've made them terrible, just like in real life. Therefore, you, terrible human who should feel ashamed for belonging to a terrible species, should give me money for it." Seriously bad idea.

/me laughs, at the last comment, and ponder ponders. "well, hmm! intermaresting." yeah, I agree with the first points, though, I imagine that other races, like elves are faster, more dexterous, and very likely much better endurance. lots of races are stronger, and tougher.

as for the "nerfed human" scenario, I could see humans being the "even baseline" and all the other races, are in one or two ways MUCH better than humans, and often worse in others, like elves would be faster, more dexterity, as racial bonuses, but perhaps adaptability, could be less, like a racial disadvantage. but I"m getting a bit more into the racial stats than was intended, particularly if it's only intended as a tangent.

"though, I imagine that other races, like elves are faster, more dexterous, and very likely much better endurance. lots of races are stronger, and tougher. "

Elves might be faster, but humans are probably stronger in that they have more muscle and more mass. Orcs might be stronger, but humans are probably faster and more agile, because they don't have the same bulk weighing down and impairing movement. That's the whole point of versatile physiology - more specialized physiology is BETTER at certain things, but weaker at others. Something a lot of people don't get is that speed/agility and strength/power are generally trade-offs, physiologically speaking. Guys that are super ripped and muscular often have flexibiity problems. Girls that are super toned and have awesome endurance can't put out the strength guys can. Skeletons and muscles are literally designed typically for one, or the other, or somewhere in between. In fantasy, people like to talk about humanoids that are THE STRONGEST AND THE FASTEST AND THE TOUGHEST ALL IN ONE (and therefore way cooler and better than plain old humans), but beyond bionics, magic, and/or as-of-yet-impossible biogenetic engineering, it's not realistically possible.

It's also not fair to pit "humans vs everything else" because obviously there will always be something else better at something than a human, it's a stacked deck. Counting their separate strengths all together as one entity to prove that humans aren't as good as them is hardly valid. "Animals are cooler 'cause they're faster/stronger/more whatever" might have a good point behind it that I totally appreciate and enjoy and its the reason I got a degree in animal bio in the first place, but the argument is fallacious.

But yeah, don't misread me. I'm also a jaded misanthropist :V It's easy to dump on why humans suck, or how they could be so much cooler or more fun but, again, just trying to be realistic/fair.

As for the stat stuff, yeah, I'd be totally fine with that. Like, humans as the no-bonuses middle ground jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, and other races get cool bonuses but also a few penalties. High strength and consititution, but low dexterity. High speed and dexterity and endurance, but low constitution. Etc. etc. I think that's often how a lot of games do humans, actually? I'm not really much of a numbers person, won't remember details of a system, but will more likely remember general theme/concept they were trying to represent with said system, but I think that's generally the approach.

Quite a debate we've got going here, madame. I must be more jaded, and grumpy than I thought, your arguments are quite valid, and fair. I suppose it boils down to me just not liking humans much. not really a fan of orcs and elves either, they're still very humanoid. I'm hoping there will be much much less "bipedal, four limed bilaterally symmetrical creatures with a large upright head, ie...humanoid.] I suppose the general theme I'm meandering towards, is I'm tired of humans telling stories about humans, with humans as the protagonists, and humans as the enemies. I'm grumpy at Star trek, cruising across the galaxy, and they just couldn't figure out how to create other species that vary more than...some face paint, wigs, and prosthetic can muster?! c'mon, man! at least star wars KINDA got it right, look at sebulba! though even then, at least half the species, from wookies, to gungans...still fit that bill. *sigh*

space is massive, earth is one speck. now...the green lantern...they've been making a healthy stab at it, but still...at least half of their species, like that fish guy, and the guardians, most of em are humanoid shaped. but there are several who are not so much, and I like that. a sentient...goddamned planet. yeah, they went there. there's a green lantern...PLANET.

so I guess what I'm hoping for, games that produce fantasy, and endless bestiary...it's a great idea, but I really hope that there are some very...unusual playable characters. furries of all creatures want to get creative! let's see tauric, serpentine, maybe a centipede...PLAYABLE! that'd be something I'd enjoy. Doesn't it feel like every game has the same cadre of humans, dwarves, elves ogres, halflings. elder scrolls has humans, elves and orcs. the dwarves...I don't think the dwemmer were really very analagous to dwarves. though, they did have the mechanically minded, steam-punk subterranean tendencies, though.

also, rawr.

Oh, I definitely agree. Like... I've always gravitated towards more exotic races, simply because they're more inherently more interesting. Human? Yeah, I live as one, that's not terribly new or interesting for me. More of the same. Pass.

Kind of why I tend to be indifferent towards slice of life unless it's particularly well done. A story about going to school? Christ, I did that for seventeen years. No, I'll pass. A story about a guy struggling with his work - I want to watch this... why?

I do get the theory behind why they're appealing, and it's because they're so accessible, and so familiar, and so relatable. I just... don't care :V It's like... females physiologically will often experience actual pleasure/neurological reward for engaging in socializing, whereas males simply won't, which explains a lot of stereotypes, haha. But yeah, it's like... it's inherently awesome for most people, but just doesn't work for me.

But yeah, artistically/creatively, I'd love to see some more novel sentient creatures. Gaseous creatures, modular creatures, even fully/mostly non-corporeal creatures who've evolved to have consciousness but not a body of matter to go with it anymore, sort of like a twist on AI. And yes, a planet creature, or energy creature, or any variety of possible ideas. But it sort of makes sense - Star Wars and Star Trek were both created and begun with rather limited budgets and limited special effects. If they wanted to do something crazy-looking, sticking stuff on a guy in a suit was just the affordable, doable way to do it for the most part. Puppetry and stop motion were a thing, but I could see that as being a thing they'd want to be careful about not overusing, or simply not having the time to do/make, especially for Star Trek, a show that would air weekly.

And game-wise, it's much harder to have to design a unique armour/weapon system for every single individual race. Instead, it's much easier to design just ONE system that all the races can use. Unfortunately, it means people usually default to "humanoid" as the way to go - two legs, two arms, torso, head on top, but even things like tails, horns, digitigrade legs, bits that stick out from the human body, these can screw up a game company's ability to make the armour system work. It makes me think of Morrowind, who had digitigrade beast races (the Argonians and Khajiit) with big ears/horns/tails, but as a result, you were gimped as a beast player, because you could not wear any boot armour, and I think you couldn't wear a lot of helmets, either, simply because the standard plantigrade armour wouldn't fit on them without the graphics team having to make a redundant version to fit the beast race's unusual anatomy. It meant, if you wanted to play a beast race, you'd always have less armor and less defense than a non-beast race. Lot of games want to avoid that, and/or avoid the extra work of having to redo redundant models, or come up with auxiliary combat systems or whatever. It's time consuming, and therefore expensive, and usually game have a budget they need to work within, and going with humanoids is the safe and lucrative choice.

Just makes sense, I'm afraid. We don't like it, but there it is.

If it makes you feel any better, any of the bestiary monsters I've done are technically playable, I believe. There's just no built-in way for make them be able to use what all the other player races use. You wanna play as http://www.furaffinity.net/view/13484730/ , sure, but you want to wear full plate? You can't go to the shop for that. For balancing reasons, GMs maybe shouldn't even give you the option to quest to have custom armor made, but I'm sure something could be worked out.

heh once again, you make very thoughtful arguements. I have more respect for you after this discussion, than I did before from your artistic skills. *offers a warm hug*

It's very true though, star trek, low budget, fast turnout, they had no choice. and star wars...was in the same boat for the first three.

I was contemplating mentioning morrowind's kajiit and argoniants. those silly long legs, I think hats can be worn, but not helms...I think it's the muzzle, if the face is open, it's ok. didn't stop me from being a kitty, though! I haz a tail, whoo!

as for playing oddball creatures, well, my housemates play a DC heroes game, [so that's green lantern, superman, batman universe] Well, i wanted to play as a 60' female naga who weighs like a few thousand pounds. She was ok with this! and I LOVED the handicaps! True story: my character is brought into the group, into a building, they decide, to make an enchanted necklace for her, to allow her to become fully human. She, of course dislikes this idea; and is highly reluctant to use it. As part of the trial, like one would walk around in shoes to discover how they feel on the feet. well, ok, I walk around, cool. DM is like how bout trying some stairs. ROLL YOUR DEX. I think...I got, Double ones, snake eyes, because the system is 2D10 and doubles is usually good, except 1's which is crit fail. *she tumbles down the stairs head over heels for a few floors!* from that point on, LEGS ARE EVIL!

as for armor...shi's a gadgeteer, so...gnomish steampunk, but think more...iron man. oh yeah. space suit armor, with flight, and onboard weaponry. it took YEARS to get to where she is now, but she's a one woman army. the only limits is creativity, and in a universe as open as DC...the sky is NOT the limit.

that serpent lord, almost looks like he wouldn't want armor, he looks pretty damned tough as it is!

Cheers :) <3

*chuckles* I kinda liked the ridiculous long bow-legs XD Silly, but distinct/memorable XD And yup, I still played Argonians/Khajiits despite the armour issues :b

lol! So you double-critically failed <3 I can see her having like a permanent hatred/phobia of legs from then on XD

And yeah, I think a lot of monsters classes wouldn't necessarily need armour, have stats and abilities that sort of make up for the lack of available armour. I'm not working on the mechanical aspects of the system or am terribly privy to it, so I can't really comment on how things might or might not work in ours :b

well, the double isn't really there, 2D10 is treated almost the same as a D20 of other games, it's the sum of the dice, it's the doubles that makes for special things, so. double twos is the nat. twenty, or crit success. though double 10's is a very good roll, and allows one to reroll to add the 20 to their roll, so if a "difficulty is...15, then dice plus stats, and you're already with 20 on dice? yeah, you're golden.

as for the crit fail, it was a hatred of legs, AND stairs. or at least stairs when wearing legs. "wearing" legs, yeah. otherwise, it's a bumpy ramp, for a huge naga.

also, blargblargle, to all other things. art good. dracat brain...sluggish.

Oooh, okay, I gotcha. Never used that system before.

Haha, sometimes depending on how the player takes things like that, the GM will give us a +/- to related rolls. Like one time, our druid caught our rogue pickpocketing her, and via lingering suspicion of him gained a +2 perception/sense motive vs any rogue shenanigans against her in the future XD

hmm....that'd be interesting, but I suppose it could be useful? I think the system I'm familiar with, would end up as being a benefit, like..."sharpeye" gives a small bonus to spot checks, and perception as well as I think a bonus on initiative in combat.

*nods* They aren't strictly to make characters better or worse, really, but rather to encourage players to come up with fun character traits/quirks, which he'll reward by acknowledging in-game. For instance, we have an alcoholic dwarf brawler - if he's drunk, he gets a minor bonus to strength and constitution, but a minor penalty to charisma and dexterity. My character, for in-game reasons, is terrified of becoming a werewolf and has taken wolfsbane all her life - as a result, she has a permanent penalty to constitution, but major resistance to poison (as well as additional bonuses and extra saves vs lycanthropy, should she ever actually come into contact with it).

/me chuckles, and nodnods. "indeed..that's rather ammusing, actually! I wonder what a fear of stairs, and bipedalism would cause, though, since it seems they're all a tradeoff.

From a purely mechanical "+1 to this stat" perspective humans should get a bonus to endurance.

For land mammals we're in the top tier in terms of endurance. Seriously, we can hunt animals by chasing them to death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

No, I know o_o If humans push themselves (as oppose to sit around on our computers >_> <_<), our bodies are capable of actually pretty awesome things - we're able to do pretty impressive strength feats, as well as, as you say, animal-world-record-breaking feats of endurance.

He is handsome! Very similar with the swarf called Kili from the hobbit serie!

Hehe, thanks! And yeah, I haven't seen the movies, but I can definitely see it :b

*smiles... not as romantic because the players are all human... very well done though. This fellow could get dressed up in just about any period costume and look the part.

V.

Thank you very much :)

*looks at himself at 5'7" and feels so inadequate*

Very nicely done. Nice beard.

Also...um.... Here. http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4f/4ff.....17ce0c5b1b.jpg

XD Here, stand next to me, I'm 5'1", and feel ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL 8D

Thanks :b I felt giving him a big beard would be period/theme-appropriate, but also a sorta distinctive "stereotypical male human" look. In a way, the race lineups are intended to convey the feel of a race, like, THIS IS WHAT THE YAKSHI LOOK LIKE. So... yeah... for the male human, I tried to make him particularly "male human"-like :V

I can't see manatees without seeing http://img.pandawhale.com/post-2001.....s-gif-Baew.gif , and just hearing a comical little "boomp" :b

That manatee was coming to get you but then...*boomp* Foiled again!

*feels powerful towering over you. He pats you on the head like the little person you are*

You did a good job with the human. But then, you do a good job with everyone.

*patted* :3 Thanks ;)

Ugh... this is the most terrifying monster you've drawn to date! You can just see the evil in it's eyes!

Also, much better upper body than me

*chuckles* It's true ;)

... well, not necessarily the upper body thing, have no clue about that :V