^^; you have a knack for being a guy of few words, but this is a whole new level, glad you liked it though... erm, I think ^^;

Awesome as usual. Loved it.

Jace seemed to handle himself pretty well for his first, terrifying dive. What else can you expect diving halfway down Sunset's neck?

It was fun to finally see some diving in there; happy to hear there's gonna be three more chapters at least.

The next couple should also involve some diving and vorish happenings... the last one, well, I haven't decided yet. who can say how this will all turn out...

Well, I know how I want it to end, hehe, but stories always have a life of their own. I can't wait to see what happens.

I'm curious, if you'll indulge me, how do you want to see it end?

Hmmm, well now that you ask, I guess I shall indulge.

My answer might be a bit unspecific, but I feel that it would be nice to see the developing relationship between Sunset and Jace turn into something more: something that extends beyond the usual dragon to dragon-diver bond and blossoms into a natural connection between the two.

I only say this because its what I WANT though. I like the characters you've created and it would be nice to see them together; however, I realize this may not end up being the case in the end. I don't want this to effect what you were planning for the rest of the story, just thought I'd give you my two cents.

I didn't go as far to guess what would result from this, and that's what I meant by unspecific, but I'm curious to see what happens.

From what you've done in past parts and hinted at for the final part in the comments however, I'm sure I'll like it.

Well, I certainly hope you'll like what I've got in mind

Good continuation of an interesting story. Though this one is 'slower' in development, than any of the others you have presented, there is nothing wrong with this if you aspire to be a novelist. Indeed, the popular sport of bungee-jumping as been largely neglected by Hollywood, and add dragons to the mix and you would have a great movie! With the divers being the focus, this would certainly would add a completely new and different aspect to the usually predictable "dragon stories" in the fantasy genre.

I was struck by the odd fact though that it was stated that the diving games have been going on "for centuries", yet dragons are not more integrated in the human world than a relatively small number particpating in this public entertainment. The reason I suggested the dragons should be relatively recent 'immigrants' to the 'human world' (like an ice bridge forming between two continents), is because with their high intelligence and willingness to 'cooperate' with humans in some activities, it practically demands there would be far more dragon/human interaction in this world after 'centuries' of contact, than simply amusing humans by eating their criminals. This is probably the weakest part of all of these stories -- great characters, great writing, yes -- but the overall world they live in is painfully simplistic and does not seem very believable. As you said though, these stories are more of a 'writing exercise' for you. rather than something you would ever publish, though I think they are good enough to be published if you made the world of these characters more believable, and tied them altogether somehow (perhaps Cloud came ono hard times and joined the divers earlier in her life -- much like the Sunset character). I can still enjoy the stories by imagining that dragons in this world are logically more involved in human activities than in this one role as 'entertaining executioners', and that there is much more to this world than apparently one continent, seperated by a mountain range, and that the humans are always at peace. (In our real world, I don't think there has ever been a day since the stone age when humans were not fighting other humans in an organised fashion (war), and if there had been intelligent man-eating dragons willing to obey human rules, they would be more involved in far more human activities more suited to their nature as flying predators, than loafing around a sports stadium for a weekly chance to eat criminals, or a food reward if don't. It is not that I don't love the idea of the dragon diving, because I do, but it is simply that after "centuries" of dragon-human contact, these intelligent dragons would be involved in far more human activities than simply the entertainment industry. Think about the fact that airplanes were invented circa 1900, but nobody was smart enough to use them for anything else besides entertaining people at airshows, not only up to 2013, but for hundreds of years into the future.

Look, I'm sick of this "believable-ness" angle you're trying to push. What seems realistic to you, is not the case for other people. Case in point, a century or so, is not as long in dragon generations as it is for humans, they change slowly, expecting dragons to change drastically over one or two generations is what I think is unrealistic... and do keep in mind, the divers are not the sole interaction between dragons and humans, as my other stories in the Drachenpass do indicate, but it is the largest, and the only one within a human city. But, it is unusual dragons who choose to interact much with humans, and there are not so many dragons in the world, nor so many born that they will quickly move into relationships with humans... several generations of humans could pass, in a settlement, and, if we assume that one or two people is raised in each, who are passionate about starting interactions with dragons, keep in mind, if they approach the closest dragon, it will be the same dragon, over all those generations. and if that dragon is like the majority, not interested, then it doesn't matter how much time passes, so long as you're dealing with the same generation of dragons, it's not going to change.
Also, remember, I did not claim there has never been war, I did state, however, that conflicts are significantly less common. Keep in mind, in our world, these people weren't being hampered by dragons, often. Look at the reasons for war. Territory, resources, most are to do with populations swelling. Dragons keep that down, stomp out most reasons for war, and what few remain, are hardly worth it, for the simple, immutable fact, if they mass an army, it gets eaten, because suddenly there is a massive massing of prey to pick at. It's not that these humans are any less prone to conflict, it's simply that they have bigger problems(literally) to deal with than each other. Not to mention, all the early conflicts, that set the tone for humanity in our world, would not have happened, due to the reasons above, it's not irrational to assume they may not have developed as aggressively. This world barely has armies, in truth, though you've already assumed they must have them, and with such recruitment needs that they'd be throwing themselves at dragons... and, as I stated before, but was very probably overlooked, I have not stated that there is not more world out there, it's just beyond a dragon's flight, and beyond the reach of ships... not to mention the dragons of the sea, which I admit I haven't brought up much, but they're not so serene and calm in this world, so nobody knows what is beyond those seas, so, for all intents and purposes, the lands around the Drachenpass is what you get.

Honestly, I'm not even sure how you see dragons anymore, I've heard you state they should be as overlords, tools, controlled beasts, soldiers, amoungst others... I'm not sure the simple thing about my dragons I've tried to help people grasp has gotten through. They lack all social inclination that humans have, all those pack and societal instincts we have that are ingrained in our every perception, dragons don't have it. Perhaps it is down to this that you find dragons who generally, don't want to interact with humans, who don't really pay humans much attention unbelievable. But, then, as you've said, you feel a sudden meeting of two sentient races would be more realistic, and isn't how these creatures met. Dragons, in this world, I feel, watched humans grow, and that, simply put, is why so many don't see them as intriguing. It's like water heating, if you're in the midst of it, seeing it happen, you'll barely notice every little step, till it suddenly occurs to you, the water has gotten pretty hot now. They see, over generations, a little crafty mammal they sometimes eat, getting better with tools, growing, very gradually, towards sentience, but if you really look at sentience, the lines between each stage blur. Perhaps my dragons take a little too much of a near scientific view of the world, but, if you look at another species, and wonder, how smart is it really... if it does something rather clever, how do you know if it's actually thinking, or just capable of learning a rather complex series of events that lead to what it wants. It is sentient, or just a pretty good problem solver? That question, was perhaps answered for dragons when humans developed language, but I'd guess at first it would sound like bleating, and other primates can make sounds that mean things, without that needing to mean they have minds...
In this way, humans, still seem to many dragons to still be what they knew before, another item of prey. It's only really starting to occur, to some dragons, that humans might be able to think like them, to be worth keeping as company, rather than as food. It is this moment, that I write about, this turning point in the Drachenpass's history, where the tables are beginning to turn, where more and more young dragons are gazing down idly at human settlements, and thinking... "I wonder... what they think, what they'd say... could they be company, or, are their only words to a dragon the begging, that could be mere mimicry"
I'm sorry that we disagree on the speed of dragon adaptation to new ideas, but my way seems believable to me, and those I know, just as I'm sure your way seems believable to you, and those you know. I'd hope, you'll be able to accept that, and just try to read and enjoy, and if you do have some issue with the wider world of this realm, you pose it as a question, because, quite frankly, I find the assumption then correction method you use rather tiresome, where you state what you think the case should be, than try to stuff it down my throat, especially when you make your assumptions on aspects of my world I have not yet brought to light. Like your assumptions on, for instance, the possibility for dragons guards. You go on that note by saying there should be, then barraging me with why... before you find out if there already are, or not, and the reasons behind that. A method I would prefer, would be for you to ask, if dragons on my world ever fit those roles. I'd answer, without being put on the defensive, and then, you could approach my answer to your question with reasons for or against. That's a logical way to approach critiquing, and frankly would save us both time.

Nicely said, I had to clap to this response when I read it.

All of my comments are based on the nature/mentality of your dragons as described in your stories, not mine. I have never changed my point of view. If I didn't like the way your dragons 'think', I wouldn't have read all of your stories or took so much time to make helpful suggestions.

The crux of the matter is that some of your dragons, hundreds of years before this current story, already began to live in human cities, follow human rules, and do their best to perform in in human entertainments against other dragons in exchange for regular meals in the Diving Games. The moment this began, other humans unconnected with Diving, humans which you have righfully acknowledged as "clever and crafty", would have certainly enticed dragons into jobs far more significant to humans of your world than executing humans in entertaining manners. And based on everything in your stories so far, dragons could certainly be enticed to do things far more suited to their nature that trying NOT to swallow a human. So it is not the dragons that are so unrealistic in your stories, but the humans. By not enticing dragons to do so many more significant things than the diving show, your humans are not acting like humans at all. And of course, more dragons would be enticed by such offers, because you painted such a hard, dismal world for them in the wild with starvation, injuries, etc. In the hundreds of years since the diving game began, every city would logically have enticed a trustworthy dragon to establish its territory there to discourage predation from rougue dragons, bandits, etc. with large cities being able to support food supplements for them through taxes. Such a lifestyle would be little different than Cloud's relatively normal dragon lifestyle, and certainly more suited to typical, natural, dragon behavior than a community of performing dragons living together in the same territory. The problem with Cloud's vilage is that the peope are too poor to feed a hungry dragon, something a larger city could do. Acknowledging these logical realities doesn't detract from anything you have written. Its not like you are forced to tell the life story of every dragon in your world. But after 'hundreds' of years living in a world with dragons willing to do tricks for food, realistically there would be FAR more human-dragon relationships than what you now acknowledge. I am certainly not the only person who would notice this if you had a larger readership.

I liked the idea of the backstory as to how the Diving originated, but it did not seem very convincing to me. It is hard to imagine a common prisoner obtaining all of the materials necessary to set up the diving with a dragon just there to eat condemned prisoners. It might be more logical to consider that a circus performer/acrobat made the acquaintance with a dragon, maybe one with an injury that prvented a normal lifestyle, and together, they came up with the idea, and traveled to different cities to perform. When they arrived in Berin and gave the show, both the humans and local dragons that hung around to eat prisoners found it so interesting that they wanted to do it to, and this is how the spectacle began. This just seems more believable to me.

As for dragons 'dominating' the humans, it was only mentioned because this would be the logical response if there were as many "dragonslaying" incidents as you suggested..... which now seems rather overated since you have now confirmed that dragons would gather and destroy any semblance of a human army forming. And this too, I have said from the beginning. Iron age humans would be no match to the large, intelligent dragons you describe. Humans would have the good sense NOT to incurr their wrath, because of the utter devastation even one angry dragon could inflict on human communities so dependient on agriculture and domestic herds of animals humans are so dependent on. So by destroying any human army that assembles, your dragons are indeed 'domineering overloads' to a certain degree.

The point I've tried to make, is that I don't find these comment sessions as helpful as you think they are, because, as I've said, you and I hold very different things as true when it comes to believable reality, so while you may feel you're helping by trying repeatedly to tell me things I'm rebuking, it's not helping.

Most of the issues here, are not to do with reality, they are, I feel, to do with you pointing something out, which may be true in a human's eyes, but are not in a dragon's eyes. To use your last point on the armies. I did say dragons would destroy armies, but they're not "destroying an army" not in their view. There just so happens to be a considerably large body of food moving through their territories that would intend to leave, so like an predator makes use of a herd, so armies get largely devoured, but, conceptually, the dragons don't see it in terms of the political results.
This holds for your idea of dragons being enticed into employment, those who dive, do not see it as a job, dragons don't have a concept of employment naturally, it's an alien thing they'd have to have explained to them, and even then, it likely wouldn't appeal. I have said before, that you should form your comments in the area of questions, because there are some instances of dragons doing other things, which have not yet been covered, and yet you rebuke me for not taking into account yet.
It sounds familiar to my tongue to have to tell you to stop trying to poke holes in empty space. If it has not yet been written, then of course there will be a hole in the world where it hasn't been placed, it's common logic, and I am tired of having to restate this point, that it's frankly insulting that you keep badgering on about things that have not yet been done. As I'm pretty sure I've already said(a fairly common problem I face), this world is on the curb of change, small, isolated things like the divers do exist, but there simply has not been the time. And if you want an answer to why crafty humans haven't managed to recruit dragons to more things yet, I refer you to read my last comment again. In fact, I'm tempted to erase most of this comment, and simply refer you back, it would have saved time, but now that I've written this anyway...

and lastly, no. You've clearly not picked up on the words used to describe the start of the divers based upon your comment. I could write a full paragraph describing what you misread, but, I've got better things to do, so, if you want to know why, read it again, because you've misread the situation.
In addition, I could go through correcting all the statements you've made that I've already rebuked, dependancy on domestic herds for one, but, I'm truly sick of repeating myself today. If you really cared at all about "helping me" you would have listened when I first said these things, and actually picked up on what I said in my last comment. So, if need be, just read things again, make notes if your memory is so poor to what I comment, but don't come back to this comment with anything I've already explained to you, or I'm simply going to tell you to look back from now on.

As a more positive note, as of last night, a new dragon-human interaction is set to be written in time, actually a new one to my mind, so if you'd care to not eat up my writing time, I might actually finish it this year, if I'm lucky.

Please don't bother to respond, as I would prefer you spend the time writing stories. My comments are all based on either scientific or historical facts, combined with what you have already told your readers about the dragons. Every anthropologist will tell you that the human civilization you describe would have never existed without animal domestication and agriculture. Without these two major traits of civilisation, your humans would still be semi-barbaric nomads. Yes, there would be some humans still subsisting largely on hunting, just like today, but not the general population. I frankly doubt any human in your world could subsist on hunting alone due to having to compete with the apex predator dragons. In mountainous climate, your humans would probably raise goats and chickens instead of cattle. Probably pigs as well, which could subsist largely on human trash. Even 'mountain men' bought flour, and if there are no cereal crops in the mountains, they would still be brought their through trade. Don't consider all of the other potential human-dragon activities as 'employment', but the reality is many would be closer to a dragon's natural lifestyle than the diving performances, and therefore would logically attract more dragons. The Diving is very unnatural for them because they are forced to live in a 'comunity' of other dragons, whereas many 'activities' human would entice them to do better fits their normal behavior patterns. It doesn't matter if you don't want to use the word 'employment', for the dragons still understand that when they perform well, they receive more, and better food, just like any other animal that is trained to do things by humans. I am looking forward to see your dragons do more activities with humans, as they will make your world seem far more believable than just the 'divers', which while are fun stories, are less believable based on your dragons' natural behavior, than all of the other things humans would entice dragons to do. Yes, the humans have enticed the dragons with food to obey their rules and do things they normally wouldn't do in the wild. The point is that with this established, dragons would certainly be enticed to do more important things than appering in shows. Yes, it is obvious the first thing could have been the diving, but when you say this was going on for hundreds of years, then the other. more important things would logically be going on too -- just as soon as humans realised that the dragons could be reasoned with, and would obey human rules when 'guests' in a human nest/city. None of this has any impact on your stories that primarily deal with just two places. People would logically understand there are many more human-dragon activities because it only makes sense if the diving has been going on for hundreds of years, as you say.

My point on assumptions, near half your comment assuming I stated there was no farming, I merely meant, they're less dependent that our timeline, but they're also less populous, it would be foolish for anyone to base this world on historical fact of our world, because it's not our history.
In addition, I direct you to re-read everything I have previously stated on other dragon-human interaction being, as yet, unwritten, and hence, trying to poke a hole in space I am yet to fill is pointless. I plan to show more interaction, for their is, on dragon terms, so if you feel there should be more, be patient, for there will be. Dragons do have long lives, after all, and these activities are amusement to pass the centuries, a thing for wild young dragons and those whose prime is past, and seek some excitement.

Of course you can change things in your world. If there were some kind of plentiful, wild grown item available to people like an abundant nut that could form the basio subsistence food to replace the farm raised grains of humans in our world, then farming would be less important, but from everything we have read so far, there is no indication of this. As for more dragon human interaction, you had pretty much said that Diving was basically it for 'hundreds of years', which seemed very unbelievable. Human nature what it is, as soon as the diving began, and humans learned that these otherwise deadly creatures would become docile and follow human rules if invited into a human city, it would certainly have opened a veritable 'Pandora's Box' with clever humans coming up with even better uses for these creatures than merely entertainments. But like you said, it wouldn't occur to the dragons they were 'working' for humans, since this concept is foreign to them, but instead simply regard these things as a way to be entertained and well-fed at the same time. But to the human point of view, the dragons would be 'working' for them for food. All the possiblities I mentioned better suits the established behavior of your dragons than the community of diving dragons sharing the same territory. that essentially perform on a simple 'food reward for succesful performance' basis like many other animals. I am glad to see there will e other things as well. Bear in mind, that since the beginning of civilisation, humans have spend more for their security and defanse than anything else. The possibility to enlist dragons for these duties would certainly be considered.

I am not going to need to resort to some magic nut to serve my purposes. This is a world where agriculture is sparce when present, and hence human numbers simply do not rise at the absurd rates our time had. They're not that numerous, yet. I have not declared it non-existant, simply, not as crucial as in our timeline, as you assume, after all, dragons+gated livestock is a very poor mix.
In addition, I would not call the dragons of the divers "docile" and they are not becoming completely chained by their ways. They, out of respect, will abide by requests on their behaviour in human "nests" but within reason. It is not a relationship that could be replicated with ease, its a very shaky sort of agreement. The dragons will, in general, follow rules, but, if pushed, will decide they're not being given due respect, and so will not reciprocate. I think you see the diving dragons too much as employment, that you make all these leaps to other things they could be doing. I'm not sure you've grasped just how thin a line the current system has.
In addition, as I stated, very clearly, so get this through the barriers you place around your perception, if nothing else. It doesn't matter how clever some humans can be, if a dragon isn't interested, it isn't interested; humans who approach, will be eaten before they can speak whatever clever logic they might have to try and convince a dragon. You keep stating the time gap, even though I explained it several comments ago, so look back, I discussed the difference in generation times, so please, cease the repeating of rebuked statements, and if you truly think my corrections are wrong, then discuss that with me, rather than blindly repeating the same idea over and over, because honestly, it makes any replies on my part seem a complete waste of time. If my every word is destined to go in one ear and out the other, I'll save my breath.

you don't seem to realize that the ingredients to create human civilization are agriculture plus domestication of animals meaning humans could live in one place and have more time to use their brains to learn metalurgy, better weapons, tools, etc. A logical explanation why the population is very small now could be dragon predation, yet being intelligent, they realized they shouldn't exterminate a desirable food source which being sentient can also provide amusement and are the only 'animal' able to make shiny objects that dragons enjoy.

Watching the dragons perform and being able to safely speak to them on meeting days, many humans would naturally conclude that the dragons are 'docile/tame'. Certainly that is true to a degree, as they accept the Diving Arena rules and not killing innocent bystanders. This being the case, other humans would propose other activities the dragons may be amused to partake in, that would also serve human interests. And because the dragons are normally 'loners', a proposition that would give them a territory plus free food when hunting is scarce would probably be more desirable than something so unnatural as the diving games.

You don't seem to realise that with dragons around, agriculture and domestication is not as viable an option as in our timeline. There use is, logically, significantly less in this world, what there is, has to be done within settlements, which limits it. Though, your second point I can find no foundation in, for humans are no more "desirable" a food source than anything else, less so, even. And, their sentience is of amusement to only some dragons, to more it is an annoyance, and, that statement about shiny objects that dragons enjoy... honestly, I thought you disliked the cliche, but there it is.

Humans may well "propose" other things to diving dragons, and, they are the single most likely dragons to listen to it, but that doesn't mean they're interested, and contrary to your assumption, the dragons who are part of the divers don't see it as unnatural, nor less desirable than these other things you'd throw their way. The issue here, is that they'd be being approached, and requested to do something, that wouldn't appeal, whatever the task. They'd be offended. They participate in the divers because it is their whim, and though I'm sure some humans would assume they'd be willing to do something else if asked, they'd get a growl if they asked. When dragons interact with humans, it is on their terms, they'll do the approaching.

Lastly, I have to point out, the thing the dragons like least about being in the divers, is the handouts. They don't like being given food, and they wouldn't like being "given" a territory. Consider it their cultural values if you must, but accept that just because there is a path that would be "better" doesn't mean it will be chosen, not by dragons, and, in all honesty, not even by humans. History is filled with illogical decisions by sentient creatures, because they follow a cultural norm.

Your first point is precisely why I recommended that the dragons had only migrated to the human continent in the past few hundred years. Otherwise, their presence would have grossly altered human development and the humans of your world would not be as civilised not have the technologies of your humans. As it is, there must have been some disaster to have reduced the human population and stifled things like domestication and agriculture. I could imagine when the dragons first arrived, they may have preyed excessively on humans to reduce them to this more primitive state.

I could imagine humans being a preferred prey species given they are much easier to eat that most prey of this size, lacking horns, claws, hooves, and sharp teeth. They would be far easier to digest as well, not being covered with undigestible hair or fur 9or feathers or scales).

You had previously stated that dragons normally didn't commune in groups, which is why the Diving would be less natural than a single dragon 'invited' to establish a territory near a human city, scouting borderlands, etc. I recall you saying there were dragons that served as bodyguards for specific persons, though to the dragon this may not be its perception of the scenario.

I don't believe there has to have been some "disaster" or that they've been "reduced" to a "primitive" state. Quite simply, they grew this way, and that has had large effects on how they live. Their population is small, because it never grew like ours did, they are also very scattered, there are only... I'd say four settlements, in the entire world, both sides of the Drachenpass that deserve to be called cities, and each has a reason for being able to grow as large. I also don't think a heavily reduced presence of agriculture and domestication would prevent them reaching this level, though it has slowed them. This is also why so many dragons don't see them as more than prey, their change hasn't been a rapid rush, a boom of ingenuity that would draw dragon eyes. Their cultural evolution has been much slower, and so, barely noticed by dragons, till about now, when more are turning their heads, and wondering if humans can think.

I'm not sure humans are easier to eat, because while they lack much fur, they wear clothes, and they carry items of metal, and stone, unless stripped of all adornments, they're not much easier to digest than most things. And, while they lack natural claws, the ones they make are far sharper, and steel doesn't digest as easily as a natural born weapon.

I will grant you, the communal living is relatively unnatural to dragons, but, much of that is due to appetite, no territory can sustain so many. But, they do in early lives live in family groups, if brought together like that, they either rebuke it, or start seeing the other dragons as family.
To clarify though, I only really consider one, or two instances when a dragon may appear as a bodyguard. To be clear, in this I don't include the parental dragons who keep a human with them, because while they're guarding the human, the human has no normal life, so, in a way they're more a possession, they're not with bodyguard, if that makes sense. The main case on this world, which I have planned out, but have not yet written, is a child of the eastern side's royal family, who has a draconic companion, but, that is an unusual scenario, they dragon was more raised than "hired"

The problem with having humans always living in sparse groups largely subsisting on hunting, is that in this kind of culture, they would have never invented metal and many other aspects described by the humans in the Drachenpass world. It wasn't until humans learned to breed animals and grow crops, that they could create cities and humans had the free time and facilities to learn new things. Yes, you could have people living a 'mountain man' existence in the region of the drachenpass, but it is a demonstrable rule that humans relying mostly on hunting must be nomads, to follow the herds. And if you add intelligent dragon 'super-predators' to the world, it is hard to imagine there would be any prey left for humans, unless it was small animals like turkeys and rabbits which an adult dragon would probably ignore. So from a scientific aspect your world is a bit unfeasible, unless there was a great disaster that killed off much of the human population that would have relied on domestication and agriculture in order to have the sophistication to invent metal tools and weapons. It could be a plague, but the migrating dragons would be the best answer, and has close parallels in our own world when early man migrated and wiped out whole populations of animals that were easy to hunt.

Your humans also wear clothes. They appear to be more than animal skins too, which require sheep for wool or fields to raise cotton or linen.

It is hard to believe there are so few humans in your world , where the humans possess Iron Age technologies unless it was a world like our own in ancient times and some disaster reduced it to its now 'dark ages' state. Even the big arena where the diving takes place, practically begs this was the original case.

Your world simply seems too 'small' to be believable unless a great disaster reduced a population of millions of iron age humans, to the scattered hunter gatherer existence of a few scattered communities. I could see a scenario of the dragons migrating into this world, and initially devastating the large population centers. Or, simply put the Drachenpass stories in a wild, mountainous region, but acknowledge there is still agriculture, domestication, metalurgy, factories in the huge population centers in the fertile lowlands. And in this larger world there would logically be human-dragon contacts as well. What language is even being spoken here, have the humans leanred to speak 'dragon' even though many have never seen one? Or did the dragons learn 'human' even though many dragons simply regard humans as food? Divers who have never seen a dragon before have no trouble talking to dragons, who prior to joining the divers only regarded humans as food. However, if there were a larger world, (I like to think it was similar to the Roman world because of the arena), most dragons might have been taught human language by their parents because it would have its advantages in a world of more human-dragon contact than you suggest in the drachenpass region.

Yes, humans would be much easier to digest than animals covered by oil coated, indigestible fibers of keratin, that also repel water. It would take a dragon only a few seconds to strip a human of its clothing, by ripping it from their bodies with their talons, though clothing would not impede digestion as much as permanently attached fur. It also takes about a second to shake a weapon from a human's hand, compared to permanently attached horns, claws, hooves, of other animals. I doubt a human accidently swallowed with a knife would be able to hurt a dragon anyway, considering turkeys have been feed surgical scalped blades with no ill effect. Humans are also very slow compared to other animals and would be easy to catch. They also exude a powerful scent to follow. Two lions in africa ate over 200 humans in a short matter of time, and Gustave the crocodile is credited with over 300, both in the 20th century, and neither of these are as smart as a dragon.

I don't know why you're so obsessed with this idea of a sudden population drop. Hear me, small population growth=smaller end population, and the idea that they'd need numbers beyond what they have to be as they are is something I see no support for. I have said, very clearly, that I have NOT claimed there is no domestication or agriculture I have merely pointed out, that it is not AS BIG a practice in this world as in our own, and so while it does supply some of the benefits, it is LIMITED.

I want you to drop this sudden dragon surge idea, because it wouldn't work, and I want you to accept, that this is not some region of a wider world they are aware of, it's a single, solitary region. If dragons had just arrived, stumbling upon humans, then my world would indeed be unrealistic, as there would never be this level of un-involvement, both sides would surely be intrigued if they uncovered, suddenly, a new sentient race. No, humans developed, slowly, under dragon gaze, it's honestly the reason for the way they don't interact so much. Many dragons who haven't tried to get to know humans, still see them as any other prey, so those dragons won't pause in eating one, if they're approached, they'd consider the human damaged in the head, and simply devour them. As for the humans, their ancestry has known of the dragons, as big, scary creatures to be feared above all else, that, has been woven into their instincts. They feel not intrigue, but fear as a general rule, and if you know that dragons have done little bit eat your kind for generations, it naturally slows down the rate at which they try to interact.

To answer the question of language, however, though it is the great hole in almost every tale of different species meeting to date... I would say that humans learnt dragon, for, as you may recall me mentioning, some dragons, a small subgroup, saw potential in humans, and before finally concluding them too primitive still, passed on a structure of language, which humans developed upon, to reach the same end, more or less.

I would point out, the ability of dragons to overcome human eating issues is not in question here, it's simply that they're no easier target than any other animal. Some dragons do prefer human prey, others see it as not worth the effort, because hunting something that can think is harder than something far more predictable. I would also, in answer to your animal examples, note that those were down to prey stupidity, rather than predator intelligence. The humans on the drachenpass, are not so naive to the possibility of predation

It's a matter of biology. If humans were that rare in your whole world, the liklihood that they would become extinct is very likely even without dragon predation. There are diseases, comet impacts, famines, ice ages, volcanic eruptions, so many things over the thousands of years that have wiped out large segments of the human race, but there were always enough in other places to eventually replace those lost. And if some dragons regarded humans as simply prey, or openly hostile against humans as some of our specific dragon characters, they could have easily eaten into extinction these relatively scarce creatures thousands of years before your story when humans had only wooden clubs, and absolutely no threat at all to them.

Also, if humans and dragons always lived in the same place, there would have been tens of thousands of years of interaction by the 'iron age' times which your current stories take place, yet you say the Diving was the first real interaction other than dragons that have taken humans as 'pets' so to speak. Now if the dragons ruled the humans, or were acknowledged as there gods, I can understand them speaking the dragon tongue. But humans in the stone age still spoke languages, and if the dragons were regarded as nothing more than very dangerous, intelligent animals, it is doubtful they would speak their language but would have a language of their own.

Another explanation of the nature of your world, would be not the dragons migrating to the bigger human world, but humans migrating to the dragon continent, to explain why there hasn't been more human-dragon contact in the past 100,000 years of human devlopment.

People still being eaten by lions and crocodiles in africa are quite aware of the danger too. But if the only place you can bathe or wash our clothes is by a crocodile-invested river, or you are a worker building a railroad track in lion-infested areas, you stand a chance of becoming prey to these animals.

Your first paragraph could be said of any species, and is thus a mute point, of course some series of events could drive humans to extinction, same goes for any species. You'll have to accept that a comet hasn't fallen to obliterate them, simply because it hasen't happened. I would point out though, it's a recent thing that any dragon sees humans in a sour light, they were just prey before, but, because of that, the dragons took care of humans in the same way they do other prey in their territories. These dragons carefully manage populations under their gaze, to try and ensure the survival of their food.

For the reason above, humans did indeed hold dragons as gods for a time, though it's largely been debunked, by the dragons themselves. In fact, in the very series of the dragon divers, I draw reference to the old rituals and religions of humans that lead to this "trial by dragon". Of course, it's relatively unlikely that they'd ever speak the same language, a truly realistic dragon story, would have no interaction whatsoever, as they'd understand humans as much as we understand mice, and so there would be no reason whatsoever for them to do anything but hunt them. But, that's not what I'm writing. I believe it's common in fiction, that little things like language are often taken for granted. But, I've explained the means by which they picked up a language similar enough that time has brought it to the same. You can give yourself whatever explaination you like, maybe the breif time seeing them as gods made them mimic dragons, maybe copying some of their words parrot fashion to bewilder hunting dragons became part of their own language, or maybe it's wild coincidence, or, any number of reasons. If you won't accept mine, then you'll just have to convince youself of what you fancy, and drop language, because it's not something I plan to tear the world in half over. Time and glimmers of words from dragons has guided those used by humans.

Also, where did you pull 100000 years from? I haven't given a strict timeline, and if you're using our own timeline as a guide for what is "realistic" then I'd advise against that. Once you change the basic environment that humans developed in, the end result changes are near impossible to truly pin down as correct, because it hasn't happened in our history. That, would maybe be the best thing I can advise. Stop looking for our history in the Drachenpass's history, because it'll lead to plenty of incorrect assumptions. I have explained very, very clearly why there has been so little interaction over time, and that has been BECAUSE they didn't suddenly meet each other. Your assumption that all that time together must have had more interactions might be so if both sides were human, but they're not. Lets assume two humans tribes, one of which is known to be barbaric, eating people, displaying their entrails, and has never shown any sign of diplomacy... the tribe who knows of them, and actively tries to avoid them, is never going to go out of their way to meet them, because people who try that die. A community, is like an individual, and it learns, like an individual. Teach children that there is something big and scary they must never, never run into, or they'll die, most will listen to that, and, in a world where it is not even the same species you're to avoid, I think your assumptions of interactions is a little optimistic of humans willingness to throw their lives away on something everyone tells them not to do. Approaching a dragon, and hoping it won't eat you before you can utter a word, is like jumping off a cliff and hoping a gust will catch you, and you can glide to the ground. Oh, it would be wonderful if it happened, and who knows, perhaps in theroy it could work, but nobody in their right mind would try it, and if somebody ever did, they'd fail, and be a warning to others. I like to think my dragons can be reasonable creatures when they're in the mood, but the humans wouldn't know that. In their past, dragons would be the thing that ate their grandfather, and every half their family, over a range of generations, their first thought will not be to interact with them, and should, somehow, a dragon try to interact, the humans would run, it's not feasible

The first point is that very rare species as humans apparently are in your wider world, most easily face extinction, particularly so in a world of huge, intelligent, man-eating dragons. And if dragons as a species are smart enough to avoid eating their prey to extinction, I recall that there are a few, very anti-human dragons (and with good reasons sometimes because you they have killed dragons)makes the liklihood of just a few 'rogue' dragons wiping out such a small population. Humans, in fact, are competitors with dragons for the same prey species. If there were more interaction however, dragons would view the humans as more than something to be hunted, but sources of unlimited food in return for some services they may find entertaining.

Speaking the same language would be quite realistic if there were the degree of interaction that I have suggested and which is logical considering just the diving games going on for hundreds of years.

I agree that humans appoaching dragons would usually be fatal, but the dragons are intelligent enough to contact the humans to exploit them for other reasons than simply eating them. The first 'diving dragons' came to the human city to eat criminals, not unlike the first humans offering food to wolves. so they kept coming back. The point I was making was that once the diving was established, and unmuzzled dragons living in the city, free to go where they please, and there apparently isn't any predation (other than unlucky divers), would 'prove' to humans in your world that some dragons are willing, and even enjoy behaving like 'tame' domestic animals. And from the dragon point of view, there are many other 'occupations' other than performers, in which they could behave more like dragons, as well as having the security of never starving to death, as you suggest occasionally happens to dragons.

100,000 years ago, there were proto-humans using tools in our world. From that early date dragons would see the humans as something different from other animals and interest them.

Admitting the dragons were once worshipped as gods also shows there was a much closer association at one time that would denote a common language. To think humans with far more primitive weapons, overthrew and killed their 'gods' is unrealistic and would suggest the dragons exterminating the humans. In cities, dragons once regarded as 'gods' would more likely become living rulers over some human populations. All of this is more realistic than the world you paint now, unless the dragons migrated to the human lands only a few hundred years before your story begins. This is why I suggested this.

All of my suggestion were intended to make your world more realistic with the minimum amount of modification to your existing stories. Most of the dragons mentioned in your stories live in a remote area, unaffected by the larger world. But considering the well mannered dragons living in peace in one human city for hundreds of years, it is unrealistic to believe this is virtually the only instance of this kind of association, when both humans and dragons alike are clearly intelligent enough to develop other relationships, and lived in the same environmant for thousands of years.

Let me make this brief. Humans are not a rarity, they're common, just dispersed. "Rogue" dragons are a recent thing, as in, the youngest dragon generation, any effect they have is happening right now. The diving dragons didn't first "approach" to eat criminals, at first, criminals were thrown into the mountains, then a couple of young dragons were caught and caged as beast of entertainment, then diving began, as aforementioned. If the diving dragons seem tame to outsiders, once they meet them, they'll learn quickly otherwise, and the diving staff don't encourage the idea in would be approachers that their dragons can be lured away, they've got a business to run. Other primates can use tools, not just proto-humans, and yet have been hunted to near extinction as mere beasts by creatures who are in a better position to see their potential than dragons would with proto-humans, what is your point? Just because humans worshiped dragons as gods doesn't mean the dragons were aware of it, or interacted as gods, and frankly I don't care if you think draconic rulers is more realistic, and while I have written of that in the past, very often, if not on ekas, this world isn't that way, so enough. I would ask you stop being stupid though, claiming that this is the only instance, I have told you it is not, so stop repeating nonsense. Lastly, I don't have time for you this month, so do me and yourself a favor and hold off till January or so.

While she still seems very predatory in this, I can see her scales softening for him. I thought it was adorable she moved him down to the ground with the top of her muzzle. I just awwed...

I have to wonder if she does something very intimate with him with her mouth to help soothe his fear of her maw. I'm somewhat falling in love with her myself, sadly I'll never get to meet her myself. Thank you for writing this, not many times I read a vore-ish story that tugs at my heart strings.

I am surprised Sunset is being so liked, because despite a few breif moments I quite like, I've felt like I haven't expressed her as well as she ought. I, personally, fell in love with the character I envisioned for her, so, maybe it's natural I never feel I've gotten her quite right.

I'm delighted you're enjoying this though ^^ and do know, before the end, Sunset going to have a decision to make, a very important decision. I'll hope it will be to your liking.