Huh, well that's unfortunate people bitched about it so much then...

That seems to be the problem with this game, well its 2 fold. 1 the company doesnt do the amount of play testing to make the game balanced enough, and when they write the rules, they put exceptions to the rule in 1 chapter, in a totally different chapter. Also most of the rules are worded very vauge, and instead of writing them better, they instead fill the rule book with tons of pretty pictures of they models they want you to buy. So in the end it becomes a 80$ advertizing guide to buy more little models.

The 2nd problem it seems is alot *not all mind you but a whole lot at least I've encountered* have this play to win at all costs mentality. Which will argue you every rule they can, and demand you take their word for things. This is very very hard when the rulebook is over 200 pages easy, along with the very vauge and confusing rule sets and on top of that, seprate rule books for each army *with their own special rules* plus the company does rule updates/changes every 1-2 months that are only published on the internet or in their magazine.

I kinda wish there was a different rule set to play with the figures, cause they are so neat, but playing a game with the few people that have the pieces is very hard.

Yeeg...

You might want to look at this site:

http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/

Those rules can work for ANY set of miniatures, and they've got premade army lists for many GW armies with the serial numbers filed off.

And I agree, Warhammer/WH40K players in general seem to be 'must win, even at the cost of fun' jerks. I was running a Necromunda camapign a the FLGS, and none of the players even bothered to give their gangs a NAME.

I had gone to all this work to set up a narrative to bring the battle reports and weekly events into an entertaining newsletter, and even wove in the WH40K summer campaign into the storyline, but nobody had the slightest interest in 'story,' they just wanted to roll dice and kill the opposing army.

Aww that sounds fun. We kinda tried to do the same with a battletech thing but it was hard to keep things running quick enough and only did a few battles. I've made a least a little back story for my 2 armies. More people should :P

I'm pretty good at coming up with narratives and interesting characters. (The start of the Necromunda campaign was also the appointment of a new Governor for that section of the Hive, A Lord Helmut, if memory serves. he was basically going to be a satire on DUH-bya and the War on Terror. (With the 'innocent' gangs cast as terrorists in his propaganda.)

It helps that I'm a RPG Gamer as opposed to a Wargamer. I'd like to think that the Role-player/wargamer schism is just an arbitrary designation and that we can all get together to enjoy The Game, or at least coexist peacefully.

Yeah I've mostly played RPGS more then games too, but I love modeling and got into it. I also like complex games, but when rules are so spotty and people are so rule mongering, it reminds me of people trying to "win" D&D -.-

By the way, what are the rules for the Aegis wall? Looks to me like they'd be typical cover (since being in base contact with partial cover generally means you don't get the attack penalty for shooting across it) and the gun looks like a standard fixed weapon emplacement.

you will need to look it up cause like I said above I think cause I havent played in 6 months because of it. I dont know if you know 6th ed but cover gives you a 5+ cover save but ruins and this wall speciffically *which is a points to pay for placement* gives you a 4+ cover, very important when normal imperial guard have only a 5+ armor save. Now the wall being points purchess I was let to assume is that I got the 4+ save on my guys, but the player was saying he got a 4+ save when my guys behind the wall were shooting at him too. This kinda defeats the whole point of buying the wall then. It was crap like this that has made me fed up.

The gun is hyrda autocannon system. it is a dual twinlinked autocannon that can shoot at flyers with no penalty. The wall is like 40 points, the gun added is +60 or 80 points I forget, and then you can also buy a becon that can let guys come in with no scatter or something? I forget.

If you're paying points that it is part of your forces, and special bonuses only apply to your side. In the case of a wall that has a clear 'inside' and 'outside,' as these walls do, the bonus applies to anyone on the 'inside' when attacked from 'outside.'

If someone dried to play the dick move of 'your walls protect me on the outside just like they protect you on the inside,' I would have paused the battle right then and there as we went off to find the official ruling on this issue. Checking the IG rulebook, asking the local GW arbiter, consulting the GW website, even writing a letter to the GW staff. If the filibuster can be used for evil, then it can also be used for justice.



Speaking about arbiters, I make a very good GW arbiter, using my LACK of knowledge about the rules details. Each side tells me why they feel I should rule in their favor, and then I make my decision, based on their input and *gasp* COMMON SENSE. It's surprising how readily most wargamers will accept an openly ignorant but impartial authority over arguing about rules if it means a streamlined game. Then again, it's been over a decade since I've been doing arbitration, and all the times I was doing it, the players were looking for an arbiter before the game started.

Rules lawyers would either think me an easy mark because of my openly stated ignorance about the rules details (I am a quick study, however, and can learn the masic combat flow within the first few turns, when the units are still jockeying for positional advantage over the opponent) or they will hate me for my use of common sense instead of precedent and interpreting fluff and rules interchangeably.

well the local place we play at isnt a GW place, I mean they sell it but its more of a magic the gathering card place with alot of place to play, but there are not offical people here. Infact more people seem to play warmachine then warhammer of those who play minis *85% of the place is card games* and there was only us 2 that day playing. There isnt a whole lot of people playing in a public. Most huddle in small groups, but alot of said sets are still crazy competeve. Though some are nicer then others. Also most people still dont seem to grasp 6th ed rules, me included.

Hence my use of 'common sense' when making judgments. When the ruling follows simple, clear logic, people tend to be happy with the decision, even if nobody understands what the new rules are supposed to mean with the wording and interaction and unknown priorities "This rule says he never misses with weapon X, even if the target can avoid weapon X by dodging, this rule says the other guy can always avoid weapon X by dodging, even if the shooter never misses."

Well I figure that, but with them being confusing at least in other points and being the only other guy playing, I can just take my crap and go, but then I rick pissing someone off. Normally it would be, whatever, but since there isnt alot of players that gather anywhere around here, if you piss 1 guy off, you might piss him and his friends and that might turn into over 50% of the people playing ever.

I would say I wish there was a GW place around here for more people to play, but a GW employee wouldnt let my army thought the door. :P

Well, it's all about people... over the years I met a selection of asshats but I also made quite a lot of good friends who are fun to play with. But the problem is of course when you only have a small local community, and the players there are of the "competitive" variety (which in my opinion the game really isn't aimed at, but eh...) it can be vexing when you play just for fun. Too bad we're a bit too far for you to come play with our group :P

yeah really I hear about that alot online. I've met a few people sorta cool, but even them are usually in a hurry and I feel left behind and the rules all seem to be in a twisted mess cause they want to play as many games as possible. This is hard when the adverage gam is 2-3 hours.

I just stumbled across something else you might be interested in. it's still in the Alpha stage, but then again, everything in active funding on Kickstarter is:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects.....tures?ref=live

neat!